1/72 PT Boat questions

I believe that was PT-372 when Elco started with the movement of the forward turret three feet forward of where it was on the 103 to 196 series to help the helmsman's visability from the cockpit.  They also tilted both of the turrets I THINK 12 degrees forward to aide the gunners while the boats were underway.  The deck layout remained the same because the Navy did not want too many changes to the design or changes that would hold up production.The 372 also started the new style of air vent over the engine-room. 

Sir,  thank you for your condolences.

Garth

Something no one has mentioned yet--   The deck layout of the boat changes in later hull numbers.  The boats in the 100 series numbers are all basically the same.  The boats built from PT-320 and higher have a different layout-- the forward gun turret was moved a couple of feet further aft, with the top angled forward some more.  (This was done to give better line of sight form the bridge.)   Also, keep in mind that the 200 series of Hull numbers were assigned to Higgins boats.

I don't have the references in front of me-- I don't remember which Elco  hull number swtiches over from the old to new layout.  I think is was around PT-320,  but I'm not certain....

I'm sure you could the 130 boat fairly easily using the 109 as a starting point.  The 570 boat will require some surgery and scratchbuilding to rework the deck layout.....

I just finished a conversion of a 1/24 scale PT-109 to a later-war boat with upgraded weapons fit.  With RC boats,  every PT boat seems to tbe 109-- I wanted something different, so I did soem research to see what boats I could model with the 109 as a starting point.

I purchased the Squadron book-- a good value, IMO, and then I got a couple of other books form the local library system. 

Wow! Thanks for the outstanding responses to my questions! I really appreciate them.  Right now, I am just doing some research as I am leaving for a pretty intensive school for the next few months and will not be able to build anything until afterwards.

Garth:

My sincerest condolences on your father's passing.  I will be praying for you and your family. 

Thank you very much for saying that good sir!

I'm working on two revisions and on the MAS boat book as well as doing an all-guns blazing job search and attempting to be reinstated in my job ... so doing book work isn't a top priority as it was once, but I am a-tryin' to get them done for you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plus, we buried my father on Tuesday, and we've been handling those affairs this week.  His SC-699 is on the front cover of my SC book and my grand-father's [his father] SC-253 is on the back cover of the book.  A copy of it was buried with him ...

Garth 

No apologies my friend.  I can't overstate how lucky we modelers are to have people like you guys that have enough passion for a subject to create books and references for us.  You have the courage to put yourself out there and I think that's terrific.  I also understand that no matter how much research you do there's always something you don't know, or something an editor changes on you that you don't have control over.   If you guys researched forever these books would never get published and we would have nothing.  No author of history is immune. 

So no apologies.  Keep working at your craft because it helps people like us in this forum understand our subjects better and make better models, and helps future generations understand what time will soon forget if we don't find a way to remember.  I'm looking forward to your next book Garth!

Dave

David,

Contact me at PTConsultingNHR@aol.com - OK?  Thanks.

Garth 

David,

I apologize, I didn't mean that as a swipe at you good sir....

I was just commenting on how people go directly to the 'big gun' books and don't go with what most people can afford ... ya know David? 

It was nothing against you ... I'm just frustrated as heck about that topic.  It is why I'm going with Nimble Books for my MAS boat book.  That will be my first 'real' book and will be over 100 pages ...

Even though I like Victor Chun, whereas his book is chuck-full of GREAT photos - his facts are not that well researched I'm afraid.  Two case-in-points ... in one caption, he refers to a 20mm on a Mk.XIV mount on the foredeck of a Higgins PT boat that did not have an ammo drum on it as a British 37mm anti-tank weapon and in another caption of a photo of an Elco 80 footer, he said that there were no US supplied weapons seen on the boat, when in fact, you could clearly see the two twin .50s, the 20mm, the 40mm and the Mark XIIIs.

David, you're absolutely right.  I did do a lot of research and I tried my best to make a good book for you guys.  Did I make mistakes?  Sure.  I admit that, I learned my lessons from them and incorporated those corrections into the revision of my PT book that I HOPE you guys will soon see ... and I'd like to point out that ... that book will be a VAST IMPROVEMENT over more recent Squadron titles as was my most recent SC book ... 

David, I apologize ..................

Garth 

Hold on Garth.  As I said "The best books out there outside of the one identified already are.."  My intention was not to take a shot at your book(s) or Squadron books.  I have many of them that I consider to be excellent references.  Each of the books referenced in this thread come from different perspectives and in my opinion are all good.  I used them all.

If someone gives you any crap about your book(s) ask them how many they've researched and written.  My hat is off to you, Al, Victor and the others that put these references together for us.  While I'm throwing props out, my thanks go out to the small business' and cottage industries such as WEM, John Haynes, and the others who bring us wonderful products and research to help us build better models. 

While I'm thinking about it I forgot another excellent reference.  Robert J. Bulkley Jr.'s book "At Close Quarters is a must have.  It has some photos but mostly if you want to learn about the history of these boats this is a must have.

Okay, I'm going to get off my little soap box now. 

Dave

I realize that most of you guys here consider Squadron books to be nothing but slightly above toilet paper rolls and I'll freely admit my book is not in the same 'league' of the books mentioned here.

BUT ...

It is an excellent source of photos.  And, the revision will be even better ...

I don't know why you guys always either ignore it, dis it or even consider it as a source...

Just my 2 cents ...

Garth 

Greetings,

Let's start with references.  The best books out there outside of the one identified already are..

United States PT-Boats of World War II by Frank D. Johnson

American PT Boats in World War II by Victor Chun

Allied Coastal Forces of World War II, Volume II by John Lambert & Al Ross (my favorite for details)

I would also suggest going to http://www.ptboat.org/ web site and check out the forum there.  You can also buy reference material from them.  It just requires some time to research.

As far as parts for upgrading the kits go...

The White Ensign Models (WEM) photoetch set has some nice parts to it but a lot of it IMHO is worthless.  I bought this set and used parts of it to make masters for some resin castings I made.  (Not for sale John, only my own personal use!  :-)   )

For the later model boats you can find some nice upgrades at WEM including the 40mm, 37mm, and roll off torpedoes.  Also check out Nautilus Models who has some resin castings of some guns in 1/72 scale.

John Haynes in England has a very nice 20mm Oerlikon that works well for the 103 class boats including your earlier boat identified. 

Really it depends on what period you model the boat.  I don't think any two boats were identical in configuration and paint.  The crews did whatever they could to give them an advantage.

Here are some photos of my 109 boat prior to paint that show some of the changes I made to this model.  Note the last photo shows the John Haynes 20mm pedestal in place of the kit molding. 

And, ... if the gentleman wants ...

I've got a few copies of PT BOATS IN ACTION for sale on my www.ptboatworld.com site for $17.95.

Garth 

The White Ensign photoetch set and various 1/72 components are well made and are excellent in enhancing the kit or in changing the weapon mounts to model a specific boat.  Also check out the 1/72 H-R Product fittings at http://www.floatingdrydock.com/fittings.htm#72.

With regard to references, I would go with Norman Friedman's "U.S. Small Combatants, Including PT-Boats, Subchasers, and the Brown-Water Navy: An Illustrated Design History", John Lambert and Al Ross "Allied Coastal Forces of World War II: Vosper MTBs and US Elcos", Frank Johnson "United States PT-Boats of World War II in Action", and Norman Polmar and Samuel Loring Morison "PT Boats at War: World War II to Vietnam".  You can request them through Inter Library Loan services at your local library if they do not have them in their stacks.

Matt

If you'd email me at PTConsultingNHR@aol.com, I'll see how and if I can help you sir.

Garth