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Lindberg's 1/144 Arizona

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  • Member since
    September, 2006
Lindberg's 1/144 Arizona
Posted by Fairseas on Friday, October 23, 2009 5:28 PM
Has anyone seen Lindberg's 1/144 Arizona that debuted today at the iHobby Expo?

http://www.internetmodeler.com/artman/publish/colindnews/iHobby-Expo-2009.php

I'm happy to see them concentrating on subjects such as this - far more broad appeal to the community.

Unfortunately from the looks of the air search radar & AA equipment, it appears their design team gets kudos once again for innovation.
  • Member since
    June, 2006
  • From: Carmichael, CA
Posted by Carmike on Friday, October 23, 2009 6:25 PM

 

Thanks for posting this!  I see that they are also re-releasing a number of kits including the "1/164 USS Carronade Bobtail Cruiser, 1/124 Civil War Blockade Runner, 1/240 USS Olympia, and 1/96 Clermont Steamship..."  The Carronade is a nice kit of an unusual subject that with some detailing work builds into a nice model, and I'm guessing that the "Blockade Runner" is the old Harriet Lane kit.

It's difficult to tell from the image, but they seem to have selected a configuration that was authorized for the Arizona and the Pennsylvania in 1940 including four quad 1.1" A/A mounts and an SC radar on the foremast.  According to Leeward Publications, USS Arizona (BB39) by the time of the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Arizona had been fitted with the pedastal for the SC and tubs for the 1/1" mounts, but neither the radar nor the A/A guns had been actually fitted.  I guess if you leave off the SC and the 1.1" mounts you might have something.

Given recent history, I'll wait for the kit to ship and read the reviews before ordering.

 

 

  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by tucchase on Friday, October 23, 2009 6:40 PM

Yeah, from the picture, it looks like they installed the equipment that the Arizona was still waiting for.  Doesn't look like there are any port holes on the deck level of the 5"/38's either.  The hull looks better though, at least from that angle.  Can't tell if it has the bottom keels.  Overall it looks veerry interesting! Should be interesting also to see if this encourages Trumpeter to speed up their 1/200, and who will hit the market first. Dinner [dinner]

PS: OK, at 200% blowup the ports are there, at least some of them.

  • Member since
    February, 2006
  • From: VIRGINIA - USA
Posted by Firecaptain on Friday, October 23, 2009 6:48 PM
I held my breath when I saw the topic.....doesn't look like that POS I-53 mock-up at least....that may be a good sign......but I sure won't be fooled a second time with a sight unseen pre-order.
Joe
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by tucchase on Friday, October 23, 2009 7:02 PM

 Firecaptain wrote:
I held my breath when I saw the topic.....doesn't look like that POS I-53 mock-up at least....that may be a good sign......but I sure won't be fooled a second time with a sight unseen pre-order.

I'll wait for the actual release also.  Didn't the prototype of the I-53 look better than what was released?

  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Friday, October 23, 2009 8:05 PM
THAT I would buy!

 

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:59 AM
The errors shown are consistant with those on the Floating Drydock Arizona plans (bridge search lights amongst the other afore-mentioned details. I've sent an e-mail off to the much maligned Ernie to see if I can make contact and provide assistance.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by tucchase on Saturday, October 24, 2009 3:44 AM
It's hard to tell in this picture, but the main deck railings do not look like PE.  I wonder if they are actually using square post and chain at this scale?  Next question: What's their time line on releasing it, if they have one yet?  Inquiring minds need to know! Whistling [:-^]
  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:30 AM

I remember my father building the Southern Bell paddlewheeler back in the easrly 60's.  Neat kit with a electric motor that drove the paddlewheel.  Been hoping that they would re-release it one day.

The Arizona looks impressive from the photo.  Just don't know where I'd find the space for it.

Mark

 

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  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:30 AM

I share RedCorvette's pleasant memories of the Southern Belle.  I have no idea whether it's based on an actual steamboat, but it sure was an attractive and fun kit. 

I'll also be happy to see the Lindberg Clermont again.  I would, in fact, be glad to see it in its original motorized format.  I never thought I'd say such a thing, but the motorization method in that particular kit was really ingenious.  All the gears, the piston, and other major components of the scale steam engine were exposed, and moved realistically - getting their power from a little Mabuchi motor hidden under the foredeck.  If you really looked, you could see the tiny worm gear arrangement that connected the motor to the scale mechanism, but if painted carefully the whole system would look pretty convincing.

There are no plans of the real vessel's hull (though there's a patent drawing that shows the steam plant), so the manufacturer should be clear of any criticism based on questions of accuracy.  I also remember the nice crew and passsenger figures.  I think this kit may have a niche in the history of the hobby as the first ship model kit to include a scale figure of a woman.  (At least one later kit, the Airfix Mayflower, now shares the distinction.)

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by tucchase on Saturday, October 24, 2009 9:15 PM

Possible bad news...  Someone at Resin Illuminati says he saw this at the show and, basically, did not like what he saw.  I hope he's just overly nit-picky.  But it is Lindberg, after all.  I'll keep my fingers crossed.

http://www.resinilluminati.com/showthread.php?p=147130

  • Member since
    June, 2006
  • From: Carmichael, CA
Posted by Carmike on Saturday, October 24, 2009 9:48 PM

 

Well, I might just pass on the Arizona and ask the LHS to order the re-issue of the Carronade for me.  HR products (hrprod.com) has a very nice line of 1:192 fittings which should work OK with the 1:164 Kit - at least I know what I'm getting. I was wondering why the Carronade didn't make the first set of re-issues this year, but glad that it finally made it back into production. 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Saturday, October 24, 2009 11:24 PM
It's a little early yet to judge the Arizona model. That's not even a test shot.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by tucchase on Saturday, October 24, 2009 11:36 PM
What is the usual order of events for a new model like this?  Does it start with a Concept Model like this, and then proceed to a Prototype Model to make the molds from, and then to a Test Shot of the molds?
  • Member since
    June, 2004
  • From: Yosemite, CA
Posted by Aaronw on Sunday, October 25, 2009 12:04 AM

 Tracy White wrote:
It's a little early yet to judge the Arizona model. That's not even a test shot.

 

I've been told the Arizona pictured so far was scratchbuilt, it is not a prototype of the kit.

  • Member since
    September, 2006
Posted by Fairseas on Sunday, October 25, 2009 1:10 AM
It's undoubtedly a scratchbuilt model of what they plan to tool. In my world of project development, we call that a prototype model. You'll want to visit the Steel Navy forums as they have several spirited discussions already going on the subject.

Not to beat the L-H IJN horse again, but I thought Mr. Ernie Petit was to offer documentation of their I-53 kits at iHobby to prove the naysayers wrong - he posted this on Steel Navy last month. Knowing this, I had asked a person attending the show yesterday to ask for that while at their booth & nothing was produced, nor offered aside from what was repeated before in past posts here & elsewhere.

I'm hoping they do fix the I-20 design before cutting steel & correct some of what's already been pointed out on Arizona because I would like to see them do well in the market with accurate kits of what they've shown to-date.
  • Member since
    September, 2003
Posted by Leftie on Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:25 AM

  Additional Photos

  • Member since
    February, 2006
  • From: VIRGINIA - USA
Posted by Firecaptain on Sunday, October 25, 2009 9:17 AM

In a nutshell.....

Usually there is the "mock-up" built in house or by an independant model maker, out of near about any kind of material. Next (if they are smart) comes cutting molds in aluminum so changes are easier and less costly. This is usally where the "test shot" parts come from. If it gets the thumbs up it goes to steel and then we have a kit.....

Joe
  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, October 25, 2009 11:23 AM

 

A posting on SteelNavy indicates that this is scratchbuilt by the same fellow who is responsible for the IJN sub.

http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/msg/1256481623.html

This is not a test shot or pre-production model.    If this is to see the light of day expect it to be in excess of 1 year.

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Sunday, October 25, 2009 12:28 PM
I am a ship guy but ... where do the good folks at Lindbergh expect us to put these HUGE creations of theirs? This one is going to be more than four feet long. Yeesh.
  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Sunday, October 25, 2009 1:28 PM

There are plenty of huge models out there in the RC world. I don't know where I'd put one, but unless it's utter garbage I'll be getting one anyway and will MAKE room.

The pattern for how a kit is produced might include a prototype model  such as what we saw here; it really depends on the company and how they choose to work. I can say that with my time as a consultant with Dragon (not paid, not compensated, before people get the wrong impression) there have been no prototype models of ships. It starts with CAD (Computer Aided Design/Drawing), the CAD is critiqued and re-worked, then a test shot is created, and if that is successful then the read deal happens. 

CAD is much easier to send around and correct; there is a distributed team of people producing CAD round the world and we can zap screen shots and comments to each other fairly instantly. I had a revision for one project e-mailed out to me yesterday in fact, and ten minutes after opening the photos I had sent back a couple of corrections.

This Arizona model might have been meant more to drum up interest than to plan for the actual kit.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by tucchase on Sunday, October 25, 2009 2:14 PM

I hope enough interest is being shown that they decide to do a much better job of research.  I just noticed on a couple of closer photos that the Range Clocks on the masts are so tiny you can barely see them in the close-ups.  The Clocks in the photos of the real ships are readable by the naked eye at a couple hundred yards.  Every front or rear view photo clearly shows them.

IMHO there is more than enough documentation available now to finally get this Lady right!  And the Lady deserves it!  Whether it is Trumpeter or Lindberg or someone else, It's Time!SoapBox [soapbox]

  • Member since
    September, 2006
Posted by Fairseas on Sunday, October 25, 2009 4:28 PM
Detailed photos posted here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1130357&page=3

http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/msg/1256485648.html

Not sure about you, but I fear another I-53 in the making...
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by tucchase on Sunday, October 25, 2009 5:17 PM

 Fairseas wrote:
Detailed photos posted here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1130357&page=3

http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/msg/1256485648.html

Not sure about you, but I fear another I-53 in the making...

If Lindberg makes their molds anything like this mock-up, the I-53 may look good by comparison. The closer I look at this the worse it gets. The second link you posted shows a good picture of the secondary armament.  The mounts for the 5"/25's are totally wrong, and the length of the 5"/51's may be too short.  It's hard to tell with so much of it hidden, but with the panels closed the barrels should be parallel with the centerline of the ship.  Not sticking out at an angle.  At these angles, the panels would not close properly.

I believe Lindberg needs to quit trying to pantograph some other model and do their research from the beginning so they can get it correct the first time.  Hopefully, they will refer to this and other forums for a lot of information that can explain to them how to correctly interpret the plans they use.  This model looks like something Lindberg threw together quickly for this show, maybe to take people's minds off the I-53.  Well, it didn't work.  There have been many comparisons to the I-53 already in several of the forums.  I will keep my fingers crossed that the actual model will be much better than this mock-up.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Acton, Massachusetts, USA
Posted by rcboater on Sunday, October 25, 2009 10:32 PM

As an RC boater, I think a 1/144 scale AZ kit will be quite popular with the RC folks. 

Now if only someone would do an Escort Carrier in the same scale! 

Webmaster, IPMS Patriot Chapter  www.ipmspatriot.org

Check out my USCG subjects model kit list at: http://home.earthlink.net/~billkaja/kitlist.htm

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Monday, October 26, 2009 10:23 AM

The close-up photos of the Arizona mock-up/prototype look crude to say the least.  While the size of the model is impressive, the detail, accuracy and level of craftsmanship aren't very impressive.  I hope this isn't respresentative of the tooled kit.  I'm not sure that Lindberg is advancing their cause by displaying something like this at a major trade show.

Just my $0.02

Mark

 

 

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  • Member since
    January, 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Monday, October 26, 2009 1:44 PM

Now this is one Lindberg kit I am interested in (don't have much interest in a never-completed DKM carrier, and I'm not enough of a sub fan to devote 5' of display space to the I-53 even if the kit were any good, but a 1/144 WW1-vintage battleship is another matter!)

Like other posters, though, I really hope the model at the show is a scratchbuilt mockup, and not a test shot. (It certainly looks to me like it's scratchbuilt from basic materials, not assembled from moulded parts; it looks to me like it even has a planked wood deck). In which case, the errors on the mockup are unlikely to correspond to the appearance of the finished model, unless the mockup is also the prototype for the kit parts (I can't imagine they'd use a pantograph, especially for a model this large, in the era of CAD?)

 

  • Member since
    September, 2006
Posted by Fairseas on Monday, October 26, 2009 3:57 PM
Unfortunately it appears that Lindberg has already started circling the wagons in defense of this latest proposed offering.

If you haven't already seen these, you'll want to check out Charlie Kucera's comments on Steel Navy in reference to their Arizona & I-53:

http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/msg/1256528623.html

http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/msg/1256527997.html

Reading statements like these, they either have complete confidence in Mr. Melillo's work & think the modeling community has no idea of what we're talking about or they simply could care less.

Once again, I just hope they start listening to the community & fix these glaring errors on what has yet to be released.

  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by tucchase on Monday, October 26, 2009 4:41 PM
From those other threads it's starting to look like Lindbergs excuse for having the radar screen mounted and the 1.1 guns mounted will be that they must have been blown off the ship by the explosion, because they were supposed to be there. Banged Head [banghead]  Nevermind that they weren't scheduled to be installed until a week or so after the attack.  Silly Admirals!  They should have known the attack was coming so these parts could be installed sooner.  Then Lindberg would look better in the eyes of their adoring fans! Whistling [:-^]
  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Monday, October 26, 2009 5:33 PM

FairSeaes; we don't know what Charlie Kucera's connection is, he might be just a friend or fan with no connection. I would be more inclined to wait and see.

Keep in mind folks that this kit was JUST "announced" and Lindberg probably spent the weekend breaking down their booth, etc. and have not had a chance to reply. The whole world does not run on internet time and we should sit back and give them a chance to catch their breath before they respond. We do not know the full story and it is too early to speak with any certainty.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

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