Zvezda Black Swan 1/72

Thanks, Phil!  And thanks for being a sounding-board for my build...it's good to be able to tap into your experience with the Pearl!

I heartily agree with John Tilley....there's no difficulty using clove hitch knots.

When I first looked up the Clove Hitch, it was hard to get my mind around it.  I don't have much experience with knots, so it seemed complex.  I had to watch a youtube video of a guy demonstrating it, several times, pausing the video and trying it step-by-step, until it suddenly became the easiest thing I could imagine!  I like it because it's an easy knot to adjust while tightening... the tension is variable up until the last tug to cinch it.

 One thing I've learned the most during my short time of building ship kits is that xenophobia is the hardest difficulty to overcome.  I was very worried about tying ratlines, until I started trying...it seemed complicated, and unknown....even though I'd read in many places that it was easy.  Now I know.  

I should say that I also know it is REPETITIVE!  But totally worth it.  It seems now that tying shrouds and ratlines might be the most time-consuming aspect of shipbuilding...  :)  But it also adds to the visual effect in a way that I didn't anticipate.  I've impressed myself!  And I feel I've achieved a new level of accomplishment and capability in modeling!  Huzzah!

David, as always, your model and the work you are doing looks fantastic, it is definately going to be one to be very proud of, I made the same jig as Bondoman for holding my ships during the build which reminds me, Bondoman, what is the 3 funnel vessel in the pic you posted? It looks like a circa 1900 Russian Protected Cruiser? I'm 95% finished my Varyag and this looks similar and interesting.

Jockster.

OK,OK, David thats all well and good, about you journey toward ship building nirvana    ,   

     BUT......"it ain't got that zing, if it don't' have that..." ---Picture !

SERIOUSLY: Glad you have been able to advance you skill set- gives me the thought; I could & should do that too

Duster-  Not sure what what you mean?  I posted a pic of the ratlines...

I got the other side done yesterday, too...next, I guess I'll be cementing on another set of deadeyes (the main mast set, 14 of them) and then I'll continue with those shrouds and ratlines...etc., etc....then I'll do the upper sets, and then it's pinrails and other deck furniture, some more standing rigging, and then a sail??  Still kinda worried about using the sails, I really liked how the yards with furled sails worked out on the Vasa...

BTW, Phil, how was your experience with the rear Lanterns on your Pearl?  They seem like they'll be a huge pain to paint well, and with very little contacting surface, I'm thinking there could be trouble attaching them...

David_K

Duster-  Not sure what what you mean?  I posted a pic of the ratlines...

 Gulp, ah, er, that is, uh, I mean.....OK I'll admit it.  I mistook your picture of

the completed set for the earlier one of your test rack. Sorry,

 SO, after reading all the words an' lookiing at all the pictures, I can only say.... it's a

Great Job!   

I think the variations in the sag seem to fit the idea of a

working ship, as it would seem that some lines would have more wear/ usage than another-

-but that's just me  

Going over my instructions last night (after tying on another set of shrouds!), I noticed that all the Fiferails, or Pinrails or whatever...before installation the instructions, call out for the tying of running line to each of the Pins with different lengths of thread....24 cm, 13 cm....so that later those lines can be attached to sails, etc....I just think that's good planning, and I really like that Zvezda has that forethought to include steps like that....I was already thinking that terminating some of the running lines to the deck could get dicey and hard-to-reach, but thanks to the pre-rigging callouts, I don't have to worry so much!

None of my previous Revell kits offered that much advice!  :)

The lanterns were a unique challenge.  For painting, there's the hard-way and the not-so-hard-but-well-okay-it-is-still-pretty-hard..uh..way.

The hard way is to individually mask every pane of glass.  It is time consuming but is rewarding.  The other way is to just paint the framing by hand. Since I was recreating the Black Pearl, the lanterns were heavily weathered.  I painted the top, bottom, and framing in a medium tan, then dry brushed it with gold, followed by an oil wash.  I allowed the panes of glass to be coated so they would haze over, completing the weathering effect.

Attaching them was just a matter of drilling a small hole in the bottom of the lantern's post and then another hole where you want the post to sit.  Then CA a small bit of wire into the hole and CA the lantern on top.  The pin should hold it securly.

Hmmm.  Tying off lines to the pinrail BEFORE putting the pinrails on?  That is a departure from the Black Pearl kit and a good one in the case of this kit.  The sails really get in the way of things.  You'll just need to make sure you keep track of each line and have each line be long enough.  I'd hate to get the pinrail installed only to find half your lines are too short.  

Oh, I would add at least 4 inches to the length stated in the instructions.  This will guarantee you have enough length to tie off your lines.

Phil

Yeah, I think I'm just going to pretend the lanterns don't exist....they look big and wonky...

I wondered if the *pre-sail pinrail rigging* was the same as your Pearl kit, Phil....it's pretty sweet!  Each pin has an alpha-numeric code associated with it, and that code is recalled later when the sails go on...it's quite ingenious...and of course, I'll be adding a generous extra length to each one, just to make sure I have enough for each tie.

I definitely would not skip the lanterns.  They really add to the overall presentation.   Give it a go.  I'm sure you'll pull it off.

Phil

We'll see...After I get the rigging done, I'll see if I can paint them to look right...the frame around the glass panes is where it gets dicey...

David, you could enhance the frames using thinly cut strips of masking tape or similar, I do this, when all the tape is in place, I 'paint' the tape with thin superglue (cyano) to lock them in place before painting, this will lift the frames a little bit. I use this technique for lots of things such as framework inside aircraft cockpits or the bands around the funnels on my 1901 Varyag. You can see the funnels on that ship on my posting for the Slava class Varyag. 2nd page. (Trumpeter 1/350 Slava Class Missile Cruise 'Varyag').

I know, it should say 'Cruiser'!

Regards, Jockster.

Jockster's idea is a most interesting one.  I've never tried it, but I do feel obliged to raise one caveat (which I learned - the hard way - in my museum curator days).  The standard masking tape sold under that name in American stores is one of the two least durable adhesives I'm aware of.  (The other, which is even worse, is rubber cement, which usually cuts loose in less than a month.)  A piece of good ol' cream colored masking tape can be relied upon to stick for about six months - at the most.  It's a near- absolute no-no in museums (except for use in paint masking projects).

I have no idea how different the adhesives in Tamiya masking tape, 3-M blue tape, or the recently introduced Frog tape are from the old unreliable.  And Jockster's CA treatment may solve the problem; I've never tried it.  But personally I'd be very hesistant to use masking tape for anything I wanted to last more than six months.  (I've read many times about modelers making seat belts for aircraft models out of masking tape.  I'd be interested to know how many of them that are more than a year old are still stuck.) 

Jockster, that is a very interesting idea.  I've never heard of it quite that way before.  That's one reason I love this site.  You learn something new every day.  Jtilley, I use both Tamiya and 3-M Blue for masking.  Both tapes have similar adhesives, but they are not long term.  Maybe a few weeks at best.  They are excellent for masking though, especially the Tamiya.  I swear by it.

When I painted the lanterns on The Black Pearl  I painted the framing freehand using a very thick acrylic craft paint in a tan color.   Having it thick allowed me to lay down a controlled "bead" of paint that didn't run.  And when it dried it was slighty raised above the glass panes.   After the paint dried I did a very, very light drybrush with a metallic gold to give the framing a metallic look.   After that I sealed it and weathered it with a wash (make it look like hazed over lanterns of the Black Pearl)

Phil

As the guys say David, the adhesive in masking tape doesn't last, but the thin Cyano works two ways for me,

1, It stiffens the tape and helps it to hold its shape thus resisting the peeling effect.

2, The thin Cyano creeps around the edge of the tape and I seem to get a full length bond between tape and model.

I use other tapes too, but mostly masking tape and so far there has been no problem. I use masking tape from 'Jammydog' which comes in widths as narrow as 0.5mm. I also use 'Letraset' line tape which I have in a 0.25mm width. I hope I don't live to regret it at some point but I've been doing this for years so far.

I also use tracing paper, card,  photocopy paper etc. the same way with the cyano turning it into plastic when set. This worked particularly well with the splinter shields around the curvy gun platforms on the masts of my 1901 Varyag!

I love this thread and want to marry it...

You already said that a month ago, Manstein!  lol

It's okay, I love it, too....although I still feel like I sorta hijiacked it from the original Poster, 2whl.  

Jockster, I'm a big paper/card person myself.  I find it much more forgiving than plastic sheet.  The entire bulkhead of the Black Pearl was made with papercard, with just a little Evergreene plastic strip.  And in hindsight I would have saved money had I used papercard strip instead.

I must also admit I am enjoying this thread for the sheer amount of information that is being shared.  I wish there were more like this...

Keep up the great work David.  I can't wait to see the finished shrouds.

Phil

Jockster

That is outside the box for tape! clever.

 I would assume (Oh gad that word) your coating the tape with Cyrano, is what gives  the tape the needed sealing for the paint to follow, while adding a 3d dimension to the part and sticking for the long term.

 EDIT: well if I were to read ALL the posts befor ethrowing my  in I would see my points are made by the author sorry--still like the idea(s) though.

 off mumbleing to self- now I have the answer to that dag natted part on my......

I'm just as bad Duster and have had to eat my words many times before. But yes, the cyano gives a good base for painting and for glueing other parts to it. Scotch invisible tape is another one that I use, cyano sticks to it well. and beleive it or not, sticky paper labels, packing tape is not a good one though, the brown stuff, the adhesive peels right off the back of that stuff. You guys should have a look at Jammydog.com and see the tapes they offer.

Jockster.

Well, guys....by now I've become a ratline-tying machine!  I can sit down and kick out clove hitch knots for 30-40 minutes at a time, and now I've almost finished all the ratline sets on the ship...all that remain are the upper mizzen-mast sets, and I figure I can finish that up with about an hour of bench-time.  Then it's back to stays, and then rig up some pinrails....looking ahead a couple of steps, I see an injection-molded sail being attached!  Funny how all the steps sorta start coming together, and you see a light at the end of the tunnel!

Still have a way to go yet!

Pics when I finish up the ratlines...

congrats on your progress

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heard to mumble to self....

not saying anything about the light at the end of the tunnel being a train headed this way !...nope, not me, won't do it, David is too good a guy to do that to; so it won't pass, my lips, nope.....

Look forward to the pics David, yours has been an exciting and enjoyable build, have you heard from Phil about his build, he hasn't posted for ages?!

Jockster...

Do you mean Paul (AKA 2whl) who originally started this thread?  You know, I haven't heard from him in a long time.

I do know that the Swan is his first sailing ship kit....he usually builds other types of models.  If I was going to guess, I'd say he might have gotten busy with some other projects, and his Black Swan is on the back burner for now???

Paul!   Hey Paul!!!!!  You still there?   haha

Hey guys... I am still around.  My Swan is on the back-burner as David has already guessed.  I got involved in several other GB's on other forums.  I've been able to do four automotive models since I laid the Swan aside, and now I'm committed to a Spitfire build.

It's taken me close to 45 minutes to bring myself up to date on this thread.  LOL

Great work David.  I'm glad you're enjoyimg yourself with this build.  It's going to be awesome when finished.

Hi Paul, sorry for calling you Phil! I love the Norton, being a biker it is right up my street! What kit is that?

P.s. Nice to have you back!

That's the Revell of Germany 1/9th kit.

Lovely, you make some nice models Paul.

Hey Guys-

Got a lot of standing rigging done this weekend....here's a few progress pics.

The more I learn, the more I see mistakes that I've made....but overall I'm happy with the way it's turning out! Gotta get the anchors on (though I see no reason why they can't wait til the end!)...and then I start rigging up the rails, and then I'm on to mounting sails....