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Another PT-109 thread . . .

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  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Another PT-109 thread . . .
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:59 PM

Greetings!

I am going to finally tackle the Revell PT-109 kit and am wondering about aftermarket detail sets.  I also want to find the other Revell PT kits, and have the same question.  Can anyone help?

Thanks!

Bill

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Sunday, August 26, 2012 12:57 AM

Lion Roar

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Sunday, August 26, 2012 8:22 AM

WHITE ENSIGN MODELS has a fret.  If you'd like to wait, a few weeks or a month, there will be a book out on the Revell kits that has a listing of all of the after-market accessories that are available currently.  

Garth

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Sunday, August 26, 2012 9:21 AM

Don't you mean White Ensign Bondo? I don't quite remember Lion Roar having a PT-109 set they do have them for the Schnell Boots. But White Ensign has all the aftermarket parts you need for the PT-109. Accurate Armour and Millicast do have some 1/76 scale figures that can populate the PT-109 and Accurate Armour does make a excellent 20mm cannon also you might want to replace the .50cal barrels on the two twin 50's with Master Models 1/72 scale .50cal .

bondoman

Lion Roar

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, August 26, 2012 6:41 PM

Gentlemen,

Thank you!

Bill

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by gteo on Monday, December 31, 2012 10:46 AM

Greetings all. Need some advice.  I just joined the team.  How do I get the depth charges for the model please?  I purchased the white ensign upgrade for the PT 109 and it has the cradle but no depth charge.  Happy 2013 to all from Sydney, Australia.

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: South Carolina
Posted by dullcote on Monday, December 31, 2012 11:18 PM

hi gteo!! welcome aboard!

If you are doing the 109 in 1/72 scale.....go to djparks.com     he deals in white metal, resin and PE acc,s for the 1/72 Snowbery..  Ive bought and used his fittings for other 1/72 builds.  At the moment im building his "roll off racks" for a 1/72 Sub chaser.......

While at his site you may want to check out his 18 inch and 24 inch resin and white metal Torpedo sets and maybe even his carly floats.....oh,....he also carries 3 bar and 4 bar rail stanchion......cleats,....bollards......etc. etc. etc......  Bought lots of fitting from him for my 109 and like I stated various other generic parts for other builds I have going.

I have no monetary connection to this company,...well other than what Ive spent,..im just a well satisfied customer!.

Try him out there mate!.....you will be glad for it!

Gott_cha out!

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Tuesday, January 1, 2013 9:13 AM

That suggestion about going to GREAT LITTLE SHIPS (DJ Parkins) is an excellent one.  The depth charges (and racks) that I bought for my MGB-61 are excellent.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by gteo on Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:24 AM

Thanks guys.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by gteo on Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:36 AM

Another thing that puzzles me is how you one glue small vertical photo edge parts, eg hand rails and foot rails, and ensure that they do not come off at a touch?  Can I get your advice please?  My experience with model making is that small parts do not stay if they are not "anchored" in place.  I have little experience with PE parts on plastic.  Thanks again.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Wednesday, January 2, 2013 4:21 PM

I would recommend Gator Grip glue. Some people prefer Cyanoacrylate (AKA CA glue AKA "Super Glue") but it gets brittle over time and quite weak.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by gteo on Thursday, January 3, 2013 12:40 AM

Thanks, Tracy.  Just ordered a bottle of Gator's to try.  Agree with your comments on CA.  I have tried 2 part epoxy as an alternative but there tends to be lot of wastage and I am not sure how it will work with small PE parts.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Thursday, January 3, 2013 5:14 PM

I've dealt with DJ as well and his products are excellent I purchased quite a bit from him including the roll off racks for a 1/80 scale Coast Guard Patrol boat project that I am conscidering doing in the near future.

His prices are pretty good and they arrived a week after ordering.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: South Carolina
Posted by dullcote on Friday, January 4, 2013 9:19 AM

I found an alternative for the Gator glue.

a while back I had ran out and was waiting for my order to come in...anyway while at WallyWorld I picked up a bottle of Gorilla wood glue for a cabinet project I was doing...long story short,...its PVA , almost the same as GATOR.......its pliable.....strong....flexible....dries clear and works very well for PE. and can be applied with a toothpik or small hobby brush.

I use it now instead of the Gator........it also works well for tacking in place plastic parts for scratch building ...plus its a little bit cheaper.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, January 4, 2013 12:22 PM

I have a bottle of "Gator's Grip" on order as well; it sounds quite promising, but I haven't tried it yet.  I also can't comment on Gorilla "Wood Glue."  I did use "original" Gorilla glue to build some cabinets in my workshop.  It worked as advertised:  it's strong, dries pretty quickly, and makes an unholy mess during application.  All joints must be firmly clamped, as the adhesive expands in the form of a sticky, gloppy foam.  Great for structural joints that need to be strong - and, preferably, won't be visible.  Just about useless for model building.  As I understand it, though, "Gorilla Wood Glue" is a completely different substance.  One of these days I'll give it a shot. 

CA, epoxy, and, for that matter, PVA haven't been around long enough for us to make any definitive pronouncements on their longevity or durability.  I can, however, offer a couple of pieces of evidence on the basis of personal experience.  

I have two ship models that I built quite a long time ago.  I built my H.M.S. Bounty (extensively modified from the old Revell kit), between about 1976 and 1978 (if I remember right).  Since then it's made four changes of residence covering three states (Ohio, Virginia, and North Carolina), which have subjected it to pretty significantly different climates.  It's spent its entire life since completion inside a wood-and-plexiglas case. 

My scratchbuilt Continental Frigate Hancock was, if I remember right, started in 1978 and finished in 1984.  It also has endured four changes of residence (plus, before its masts were stepped, a round trip to England in a suitcase).  It also has lived almost its entire existence (since being finished) inside a wood-and-plexiglas case.

I didn't pay particular attention to the adhesives I used in either of those projects; being young at the time I didn't care much about the lifespan of the models.  (I'm older now, and slightly more interested in such things.)  I did know enough to avoid anything containing lead (including lead-based solder), and I disdained balsa and pine.  (I still do.)  The materials in those two models include styrene (molded and strip- and sheet-stock), basswood, boxwood, cherry, pearwood, degama wood, holly, paper, brass, copper (including copper sheathing for the Bounty's hull), milliput, acrylic modeling paste, and probably a few more materials I've forgotten about.  The adhesives included Revell tube-type plastic cement (would that it were still available), Testor's liquid plastic cement, Weld-on No. 3, CA adhesive (which was relatively new to the hobby market at that time), 5-minute epoxy, Squadron Green Putty, old-fashioned Weldwood contact cement (for the copper sheathing), Elmer's white glue, Titebond ("cream-colored") wood glue, and tin-silver solder.   I think that's a fairly comprehensive list of materials that have now been tested for, in the Bounty's case, over 30 years, and slightly less in the Hancock's.

My report on how those adhesives have held up can be quite short:  not one of them has failed or shown the slightest sign of weakening.  I can't speak to the question of  "brittleness;" those models scarcely ever get touched.  (If they did, I'd be concerned that my 30-years-older fingers might brutalize them.) 

Those models' excellent condition provides some other interesting evidence.  The principal rigging material in them is silk thread.  I've heard all sorts of stories of silk weakening over time, but every single line on those models is still in place.  (Have I deliberately yanked on any of them to test it?  No.  On the other hand, the models have been subjected to quite a few car trips, and the bouncing around hasn't fazed them.)  The paint I used for both of them was the then brand-new Poly-S.  Lots of people have claimed that acrylic and latex paints don't hold up.  I obviously can't state absolutely definitively that none of those colors has shifted, but they certainly look identical to the color photos I took years ago.  And none of the plastic parts has shown any sign of warping.

Neither I nor anybody else can state with certainty whether the CA adhesive we apply today will still be stuck in a hundred years.  But the evidence in front of my eyes suggests that it's pretty good, durable stuff.  That doesn't mean something better won't come along.  (I have high hopes for this new Gator's Grip stuff; I don't like CA for tiny photo-etched pieces any better than anybody else does.)  But if the hobbyist's adhesive market doesn't get any better than it is now, it's pretty dang good.

All this should intensify our reverence for previous generations of model builders.  The people who built those "Admiralty models" in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries had no adhesive other than hide glue, and as recently as the 1950s people were making do with white glue, Ambroid cement, and solder.  I have a great deal of admiration for those folks.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by gteo on Saturday, January 5, 2013 4:48 AM

Thanks to all for your comments.  Reason for asking about the type of glue is my doubt that delicate metal (PE) can have a reasonable lasting bond to plastic especially if the PE is 90deg to the plastic surface and the contact is just a thin edge.  Anyway, the forum have given me much advice and information and I am grateful to all for sharing their expertise.

Can anyone advise a good reference for where the White Ensign PE should go on the PT Boat (aka PT109; same era boat).  I am thinking of a plan and elevation type 1/72 scale reference.  The resource could be internet or a good book.  I was looking at the following: PT Boats in Action: ELCO Higgins Huckins torpedo boats (Squadron Signal 4034) - David Doyle, or US PATROL TORPEDO BOATS, WORLD WAR Ii - PETER BULL GORDON ROTTMAN, or Squadron Signal item number 26008 Higgins PT Boat on Deck - David Doyle, or Squadron Signal PT Boats In Action Ship No. 7.  Thanks for your advice as I mainly want it for the scale drawings reference, where the nuts and bolts go, if you know what I mean.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Saturday, January 5, 2013 7:20 AM

Our comember, Garth, aka PTConsulting NHR here on FSM, has a book that will be released soon concerning PTs. Perhaps you will be able to get some helpful info from that.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Saturday, January 5, 2013 8:11 AM

Another good reference is Lambert & Ross' ALLIED COASTAL FORCES, VOLUME II and Lambert & Brown's ALLIED TORPEDO BOATS.

Connelly's book on the Italeri PT-596 kit might be helpful too.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by gteo on Saturday, January 5, 2013 3:09 PM

Thanks guys. I can only get 1.  Which one should it be?

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Saturday, January 5, 2013 4:23 PM

I can't tell you to get my books, as much as I would like to ........ I'd suggest Lambert & Brown's or Lambert' & Ross' .............

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by gteo on Saturday, January 5, 2013 4:44 PM

Thanks Garth.  I understand the implications of your comment.  Would these works. including yours, have the plan diagrams to help me attach the PE parts?  When will your book be published?

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Saturday, January 5, 2013 5:03 PM

Yes, all books mentioned COULD assist you.  My publisher told me that a proof draft would be ready sometime in January.  It's January ...... I'm "guessing" February, March.  Go to www.ptboatworld.com and keep checking.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by gteo on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:58 PM

Thanks to all for your helpful comments and advice.  

I have been looking around for  2 x 1/72 depth charge for my Revell PT 109.  White Ensign(WE) PT109 PE set provides the cradle for the depth charge but not the depth charges themselves.  WE has a resin set which I am not sure is suitable - Coastal Craft 1/72 Depth Charges & Racks (CCA72008), DJ Parkins has another for RN vessels Single Depth Charge Rack Set but it comes with everything and I only need the cylindrical depth charges.  Can anyone assist in sharing how I should scratch build them or does anyone have 2 spare 1/72 depth charges that I can purchase from?

Another thing is that the WE Revell 1/72 PT PE set mentions about using plastic rods for the torpedo tube mounting clamp assembly.  What is the size of the plastic rod to be used?  What about using wire instead of plastic rods for the mounting clamp assembly?  Again, I will need the diameter of the wire for this.

I am a newbie at detail ship modeling and WE could have been more helpful in putting the PT set together, imho. Then again, if they provided everything, I will not have an opportunity to meet fantastic people on this site.

  • Member since
    February 2004
Posted by dhenning on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 9:36 PM

I used Evergreen plastic tubing and plastic rod to make my depth charges on my Lindberg 1/64 scale PT-109 (was a gift from my two boys).  Go to the pt-103.com website for dimensions of the depth charge and you should be able to make them pretty easily.  Leave the tubing a little longer than the rod for the rim at the edges of the depth charge and put a slice of smaller diameter rod in the middle to represent the fuse(??).   Worked out okay on mine.

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: South Carolina
Posted by dullcote on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:48 AM

On DJ Parks site he has a page for RN weapons and fittings..... there he list a "roll-off" DC set that has 4 DC's with 4 sets of end plates brackets and associated hardware for the DC's it comes with 4 Roll off racks but the set can be used without the racks.   Ive used the individual DC's for a sub chaser build and it looks great since the end plates "MAKE" the DC's look accurate.

Now this isnt the same set on the main page...this set is only about 9 USD as opposed to 42 USD for the complete set..

Here it is..  djparkins.com/acatalog/Royal_Navy_Coastal_Forces_Weapons___Fittings_Sets.html

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:46 PM

Sorry but the 4 roll off racks are really 2 roll off racks they are assembled in a inner half outer half fashion to get the correct scale thickness and on the outer half you assemble the tackle for the supplied thread strapping.

dullcote

On DJ Parks site he has a page for RN weapons and fittings..... there he list a "roll-off" DC set that has 4 DC's with 4 sets of end plates brackets and associated hardware for the DC's it comes with 4 Roll off racks but the set can be used without the racks.   Ive used the individual DC's for a sub chaser build and it looks great since the end plates "MAKE" the DC's look accurate.

Now this isnt the same set on the main page...this set is only about 9 USD as opposed to 42 USD for the complete set..

Here it is..  djparkins.com/acatalog/Royal_Navy_Coastal_Forces_Weapons___Fittings_Sets.html

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: South Carolina
Posted by dullcote on Monday, January 14, 2013 12:55 AM

I beg to differ.....I have assemble two (2) of the racks and still have an additional 2 more racks left on the fret.  The set comes with 4 inner and 4 outers.....Hardware for 4  endplates for  4 and 4 white metal DC's.  Im looking at it this moment and just counted the set....There are four (4) in the "Coastal Forces Depth Charge and Chute Set as stated

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: South Carolina
Posted by dullcote on Monday, January 14, 2013 12:58 AM

also as stated on the web site............

""Single Depth Charge Rack Set

This set provides four single depth charge & chute units as carried on most Coastal Forces vessels. Sets can obviously be combined to fit out the larger boats. All the strapping and release gear is fully represented in this set, together with accurate mounting chocks.

Price: £6.00 (£7.20 Including VAT at 20%)""

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by gteo on Thursday, January 24, 2013 6:14 AM

Anyone knows where I can get 1/72 scale decals for PT boat (109).  Ebay seems to only have 1/35 scale ones.

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Thursday, January 24, 2013 4:23 PM

None are made ...........  you'd need to use generic ones or dry transfers ..........

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