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Merit PT

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  • Member since
    December 2005
Merit PT
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Thursday, April 17, 2014 7:02 PM

The Merit 1:48 scale Late War eighty-foot Elco PT boat

-By-

T. Garth Connelly

Earlier this year,  I heard that a company, Merit International, was going to be releasing  two 1:48 scale kits of the eighty-foot Elco PT boat.  One kit is of the eighty-foot Elco as a new-built boat would look in 1945.  The other kit is of the first production series (PT-103 to PT-196), or simply put, the series of which PT-109 was an unit.

I saw comments on some of the internet scale modeling sites which stated that these two kits were nothing more than scale-downed “re-pops” of the now out-of-production 1:35 scale Italeri PT-596 and the newer 1:35 scale PT-109 kits.  I did not put much stock in those comments, nor did I particularly think they had any validity.

That was because I did not think that a “giant” such as Italeri would stand for someone doing something like that, especially since the PT-109 is still in production and is still, for some reason, popular.

Those comments were the last words I saw about these kits until this past week.  Last Wednesday evening, I received an email from Tony Chin of Merit International.  The email stated this:

Dear Mr Connelly
My name is Tony Chin and our company, Merit International is about to 
release 1/48 scale series of Torpedo Boats from different countries.

I came up with the idea a few years back because PT Boats models are 
either too small in 1/72 scale or in my opinion, too big in 1/35 scale 
granted they are great model kits. I must admit that I had been using 
your great web site as reference during our research. While our first 
model kit will definitely have mistakes, we hope that we have 
minimized the mistakes to an acceptable level. Like Italeri, we have 
chosen the Elao 80', late type as our first release because it is 
laden with so much weapons and lots of conversion possibilities. The 
1/48 scale model still measures 20 inches and has more than 500 parts

I have attached a copy of our paint guide for your reference.
Advance review sample without box is available if you are interested.
If interested, kindly provide a shipping address.

We look forward for your reply.

All the best

Tony

I have to say, I was shocked and honored to receive that email.  I have never had a model manufacturer reach out to me and ask for my assistance.  I responded that I would be glad to help them, as much as I could.  True to his word, Mr. Chin sent me a review sample of the kit.  It was just the deck, hull and the sprue-trees without the decals and a small fret of photo-etched parts.

Mr. Chin did send me an email with a 'proto-type' of the decal sheet and here it is:

A modeler can easily finish the kit as any of the PT-565 to PT-624 production series of the Elco eighty-foot PT boat design.  Of course, only the boats of Squadron 40 (PT-589 to PT-600) in 1945 was placed into service and sent to the Philippines.  However, the war ended before this squadron saw action against the Japanese. The rest of the production series were not completed, placed in commission and were doing a shake-down cruise when the war ended or cancelled. 

The kit arrived and I poured over the sprue trees, one by one and I have to say that impressed does not begin to describe my opinion of this kit.  There is absolutely no flash on any of the trees, no injection marks or anything of the kind.

What impressed me the most about what I saw was the amount of detail incorporated into the kit's parts.  I realize that this is the 21-st century and anything is possible and doable, and OK, I am in my mid-fifties and I tend to be amazed by technological advancements that remind me of what I saw on Star Trek, but still....

The detail is incredible!

I can debunk the claim that this kit is just a scaled down re-pop of the 1:35 scale PT-596 kit.  How can I make such a statement?  Simple.  The Italeri kit had the after, port machine gun turret molded as part of the dayroom kit. This kit does not.  The turret is a separate piece which is meant to be attached to the dayroom cabin. 

Another thing which impressed me was the way how the .50-caliber machine guns and the Bofors 40mm M3 would go together.  The same thing can be said about the 20mm would go together.  I was a little skeptical about that mount because of what I saw in a sample of the proposed box-art.  In the painting, the 20mm on the foredeck appears to be on a Mark IV mount instead of the correct Mark X mount.

Mr. Chin sent me the kit instructions and what I saw in them relieved me.  The 20mm from the kit is on the correct mount.  It is also very accurate as well.

When asked why did Merit International decided to do a late-war Elco PT boat, Mr. Chin said this,

We were choose between the Elco or the Higgins boat as our first release and we have decided to make the Elco 80 first because:

 

1. Influence of JFK, "PT-109" movie and the overall historical fame of the Elco 80, although Elco 80 were not used in the movie.

2. The movie "They were Expandable" used Elco 80, although they should have been different Elco boats.

 

This made the Elco 80 a better choice because it will be better received by modelers.

 

We will make the first 2 releases as the "late type" and "early type" rather than a PT-109. Of course, modelers can easily customize the "early type" to become a "PT-109"

When asked about what resources did they use in the development of the kit, Mr. Chin said this,

We used a lot of materials from available books and web sites and we study work from modelers perfecting their build on various PT Boats model kits. We actually used a old 1/72 model for a basic scan and then use printed hull shape data to re-pot the correct shape and outline. We hope we will not offend anyone by doing this

The price of the kit, according to Mr. Chin, The MSRP is $93.00

When asked if there would be photo-etched brass details for the kit, Mr. Chin said, 

There are some P/E that comes with the model kit but it is our understanding that no matter how well we fair, after market companies will always manage to create fantastic products to super detail the model. We have to consider overall retail price and ease to build vs. making the model kit too expensive and difficult to build.

Finally, Mr. Chin commented,

Our next release is not be a "PT-109", it will be released as a Elco 80 "Early type". I do have one such "Nose Art" in mind for the release,... then again, I think it is better to leave it to the after market manufacturers to help. They are so good in coming up with something of interest and hopefully help expand the interest on the PT boats to the next level. In all, we are hoping to provide an affordable priced kit as the platform and let the aftermarket manufacturers and modelers to run wild with it. We hope the modeling community will support our concept.  There will be a 3rd variant to the Elco 80 series of model kits and we will make a release in our "Built and Painted" series of models as well.

In conclusion, I think that ship modelers will embrace this kit and the next one from Merit International.  What's more, from what I saw in the instructions and on the sprue trees, the kit(s) will be an enjoyable and stress-free build.

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Monday, April 21, 2014 1:37 AM

Thanks for posting this.  I would very much like to build a 1/48 scale Elco 80'.  I have the old Revell 1/72 kit with WEM photo-etch as well as resin torpedoes and the 20mm.  I plan on replacing the .50 caliber guns as well.

I agree that the 1/48 would be a perfect scale for me personally, as the 1/35 is a bit big and the 1/72 is nice but I would like to build something a bit bigger.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 1:11 PM

Got this one on pre order at Freetime Hobbies. Looks *** a fantastic model.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:45 PM

I truly believe both of you will like, and be totally impressed by the kit.  

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:18 AM

Hello:

I would hope someone releases a Higgins before I check out  .I believe the early REVELL release , way back in the 50s was such a boat .I don't think they should overlooked .

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Friday, April 25, 2014 9:08 AM

Was thinking of the same thing tankerbuilder. Don't be surprised if Merit develops one to go with the Elco.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Friday, April 25, 2014 9:33 AM

Tankerbuilder ......... stay tuned.

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Friday, April 25, 2014 1:20 PM

Additionally, as soon as I get back to Connecticut on May 5th, I plan on giving the kit to my local model builder, Stan Pienkowski and have him build it for me and give me his opinion of it and comments about the kit, and I will write something up, with photos and have it posted here and on my website and other sites.

Garth

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Sunday, April 27, 2014 8:51 PM

Looking forward to your report Garth.  If Stan can't build it, I would be more than happy to volunteer!

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Monday, April 28, 2014 8:19 AM

Thanks Steve, but I have already talked to Stan, he agreed to do it ... I just have to find time to get it over there ........ but, thanks for the offer - where are you located anyway.

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Monday, April 28, 2014 2:05 PM

Garth,

I currently exist in the blazing hot desert called the Phoenix metro area.  Interesting place for a naval historian.....  Please let me know when Stan finishes the build, I would love to see it.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Monday, April 28, 2014 2:25 PM

Sir, ... WILL DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Saturday, May 31, 2014 7:03 AM

Just got confirmation from Freetime that my PT Boat shipped. Will post once I get it and check it out.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Roanoke, Virginia
Posted by BigJim on Tuesday, June 3, 2014 9:21 PM

Mine arrived tonight. I've only had a chance for a very quick look over. The instruction book seems to be adequate to spartan. There is no history of the boats provided. My opinion is that it would have been better if the parts had been labeled with their names along with the part number. Also there are no color codes for painting each part. There is a single sheet color guide showing the top and side views, however, it is printed so dark as to be almost useless.

Parts seem to be molded crisply and from just a cursory glance, this appears that it will build into a very nice model. Just have your reference material handy when choosing your paint.

One other thought. It would have been a real treat if a complete engine room and interior spaces were included.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Wednesday, June 11, 2014 7:38 AM

BJ

Mine arrived a few days ago but we just got from vacation and haven't had time to check yet due to other pressing issues around the house. Hopefully sometime in the next couple of days I can take a peek and see things. I'm not too concerned about the lack of info that you mentioned since I have reference material left over from a 5 ft radio control PT Boat project I was doing some years back which will come in handy, just have to locate it.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:02 PM

BigJim
My opinion is that it would have been better if the parts had been labeled with their names along with the part number.

I see this asked for somewhat regularly. The problem is that most CAD people DON'T KNOW what those parts are, they're just reproducing shapes. Same goes with the graphics people who build the instructions.

BigJim
One other thought. It would have been a real treat if a complete engine room and interior spaces were included.

Would you be willing to at least double the price for that feature though? It would take a LOT more research and then CAD and molding to pull off. I've been through the PT files at the National Archives - there is no thorough "walk around" set of photos of interior spaces. There are some random shots, but is a photo of one corner of, say, the galley, enough to reconstruct the entire thing in plastic?

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Roanoke, Virginia
Posted by BigJim on Thursday, June 12, 2014 4:52 AM

there is no thorough "walk around" set of photos of interior spaces

Tracy,
The Squadron Series PT Boat "Walkaround" seems to have a good section on the crew interior spaces. There are some drawings from, I think that it was "The Floating Drydock"*, that would be helpful too. So, it is not as though it is a mission impossible. *(Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I don't have my drawings at the tip of my fingers at this time)

Granted, the engine room would be a little more difficult, but, for the most part from lack of information and depending on what level of detail to provide. Engines should not be a problem as there are plenty on the aircraft side of modeling. Maybe the engine room from the PT in the above mentioned book could have some more pictures taken around 360 degrees. I think the information is out there. Someone just has get up and go find it. If I was in a position that would allow me to photograph the interior of that boat, I would do it myself.

The problem is that most CAD people DON'T KNOW what those parts are, they're just reproducing shapes. Same goes with the graphics people who build the instructions.

Let's don't blame the CAD/Graphics people. It is not up to the CAD or Graphics folks. I would tend to think that they are just sitting at their posts doing what is asked of them. It is up to the Project Manager or someone higher up that would, preferably, have a passion for the project to provide the needed information.

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Truro Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by SuppressionFire on Thursday, June 12, 2014 5:20 AM

BigJim,

With a highly anticipated release in a very popular scale - best scale suited for a 80' boat that many modellers will add figures and set in a vignette or diorama.

You can bet the after market is all ready working on interior detail sets and the engine, I would guess the engine is a large diesel? If anyone knows the exact motor it maybe currently available or easily converted from a different application.

Going one step further this would make a great R/C boat, would not be surprised if a kit to convert this model is in the works.

Not that I need more unbuilt model kits but... if I decide to take on a boat this will be the one!  

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:06 AM

As I recall, the standard PT boat propulsion plant consisted of three big diesel engines. To reproduce the interior at an acceptable standard for 1/48 scale would require hundreds of parts - and such a kit undoubtedly would cost hundreds of dollars.

The last few posts got me thinking. Apart from the old, notorious Renwal and Revell nuclear subs, and a couple of Revell U-boats, has there EVER been a styrene ship or boat model with a detailed engine room and interior spaces?

A "cutaway" PT boat would be a fascinating kit. So would a cutaway destroyer or battleship. But I don't think it's reasonable to expect one any time soon. (On the other hand, given the pace of advances in the industry these days, who knows?)

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Roanoke, Virginia
Posted by BigJim on Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:14 AM

I would guess the engine is a large diesel?


That would be three Packard  12 cylinder - 1,200hp (1,500hp later in the war), 100 octane gasoline burning engines. 

Would you be willing to at least double the price for that feature though?


If the aftermarket jumps in on this model, one will be able to spend who knows how much of Tracy's money detailing the boat. Wink

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, June 12, 2014 8:04 AM

Geez, I winked and missed some great exchanges here. Very interesting and informative thread.

BJ you beat me to it with the Packard info. I have a book titled "US Navy PT Boats Of WWII" and has tons of info and pictures, many of partial interior details. I do believe the resin am stuff will be coming down the road, as CMK is coming out with interior and exterior details for the new release of the Type IX U Boat. I suspect other companies will follow with some great goodies.

Now my wife claimed the package as my Father's Day Gift and cannot be opened till Sunday. I love anticipation!

Here's some great info broken down to 3 parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8tQP3s9DIQ&feature=youtu.be

and here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTuyA84QXKs

 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Bangor, Maine
Posted by alross2 on Saturday, June 14, 2014 5:07 PM

Meaningless descriptions such as “Late Type” aside, it appears that the Merit kit is supposed to depict a 565-624 series 80’ ELCO.  Overall, the kit compares reasonably well to the original ELCO drawings, but contains a number of rather curious errors that could be addressed to make it a more accurate model.  

Some of the more obvious problems include:

a. The kit hull has a straight sheer; the real boat had a subtle S curve.

b. The kit deck has a raised lip simulating the margin plank around its perimeter; on the real boat the margin plank’s top was flush with the top of the decking.

c. The side windows on the chart house are too far above the deck.

d. The day cabin roof has a non-existent cable run along its centerline.  This does not appear on the ELCO drawings nor photos of boats in the series.  In the accompanying photo of the 588 boat, it’s clear this is just a line laying on top of the roof.

e. On the kit, the antenna trunk on the port side of the cockpit is round; on the real boat, it is rectangular.

f. The fins on the kit torpedoes are angular at both ends; on the actual MK13s. they are radiused on the leading edge.

g. The box top art is full of errors and has no value as a reference.

h. The kit’s painting guide supposedly shows Measure 31/20L, but the colors are wrong.  The real pattern used two greens (Green 2, Green 3) and black on vertical surfaces, Deck Green (20-G) on horizontal surfaces.

For what it’s worth, the first five errors listed are also on the 1/35 Italeri PT 596 kit.  

Photographs of the 588 boat at the ELCO plant prior to being placed in service that illustrate some of these observations can be found here:  s73.photobucket.com/.../PT588

Al Ross

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, June 15, 2014 8:51 AM

Al

Thanks for pointing out the errors. I have yet to encounter a kit without a bunch ore errors so it's nothing new. I have bookmarked your info for future building use.

I finally opened mine a few minutes ago and just looking over it, must say that the quality is very good with sharp details. The railings look to be about scale which is usually a problem when molded in plastic. IMO, I see no need for any pe detailing but that is up to the individual. I do like the included display plastic plate. I did notice something different with the color call outs so you clarified that. Would be nice to follow this one up with a Higgins boat.

Do you have any references for the torpedo colors? I wonder if the 13's were greased to improve underwater performance?  

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Bangor, Maine
Posted by alross2 on Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:59 AM

The bodies were covered in a petroleum-based substance to keep them from rusting.  From the few contemporary color photos I've seen, this covering gave the bodies a somewhat brassish tone.  This shot i73.photobucket.com/.../mk13p.jpg shows a practice torpedo (yellow warhead) being launched.   This one (gray warhead) i73.photobucket.com/.../mk13torpedocolor-2-1.jpg shows a live weapon.

Some MK13s appear to have been painted, particularly the warhead.  You really have to decide which boat at what time you want to depict and find some photos of it.

Al Ross

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:23 AM

Thanks Al. Those are great pictures!

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Sunday, June 15, 2014 3:26 PM

One thing modelers should consider, and that is something which the late, great Alex Johnson who built my models of PT-171, 174 and 59 once told me, and he was not one to make an accuracy error, especially regarding PTs. ...

The warheads were also painted to match the scheme the boats wore ... if they were in one of the schemes that had green in it, then, they'd would be painted a green, a gray based scheme - gray warheads and if they were in the Thayer Blue system - they were painted to match.

Garth

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, June 15, 2014 6:23 PM

Thanks Garth

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Roanoke, Virginia
Posted by BigJim on Sunday, June 15, 2014 7:51 PM

alross2
d. The day cabin roof has a non-existent cable run along its centerline.  This does not appear on the ELCO drawings nor photos of boats in the series.  In the accompanying photo of the 588 boat, it’s clear this is just a line laying on top of the roof.


Looks like the cable should be there to me.

  

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Bangor, Maine
Posted by alross2 on Sunday, June 15, 2014 7:59 PM

The kit has a double raised line running along the top of the day cabin roof that ends in an oval on the aft bulkhead of the day cabin.  In this photo, you can see the bitter end of the line on the deck.  Also, if you look at the photo of 593, you will see the cable is not there.

Al Ross

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Roanoke, Virginia
Posted by BigJim on Sunday, June 15, 2014 8:14 PM

alross2

The kit has a double raised line running along the top of the day cabin roof that ends in an oval on the aft bulkhead of the day cabin.  In this photo, you can see the bitter end of the line on the deck.


Actually, on the kit, the lines run down the back of the day cabin into what looks to be a junction box. A photo of 596 also shows the cable, although plumbed differently. Photos of other boats don't. Any idea as to its purpose? 

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