Liberty ship Airplane Transport

The stumbling block I've run up against now is, a P-38 even with the outer wings removed does not fit in the hatch. No way no how. I thought it could be tilted somehow to get it in there, but when I put in the upper 'tween deck, there is not room to tilt it enough. At the IPMS Seattle meeting somebody told me that they were crated with the engine/tail boom assembly separate. I've been looking for a picture of that, so far without any luck. I did find in 'Army Air Forces in WWII, Vol 6' a lot of interesting information on how planes were carried. It says these modified Liberty ships could carry 42 planes crated below deck, as opposed to 56 for an escort carrier. But they didn't say what planes. Obviously, a carrier is way more expensive to run, even if the Navy can spare one. The hatches on these ships are just long enough to take a P-38 engine/tail boom with a few inches to spare.

So now I may just cover the hatches. It doesn't seem very interesting to look into the holds just to see a bunch of crates!

Fred

By the way, this is the second time I've used the Tom's PE set for the JOB/Brown and some issues to note:

The wires that are supposed to span between lifeboat davits that hold the coiled man ropes and falls are too short. I added a very short length on each end. When you cut a PE railing and you have little lengths of brass scrap? That is enough. Just touch the scrap with CA and stick it on the span wire on both ends. You really only need less than a mm more on both ends.

As noted before, the idea of putting little pulley wheels in the cargo blocks, using slices of plastic rod, just doesn't work. At least for me.

That short railing that runs in a circle around the 5 in gun mount seems impossible to get attached. Maybe it takes more talent than I have, but i skipped it. I'm not sure it is authentic for wartime anyway.

Fred

That's great !  I'm supposing the outer wings of P-38s would be in cases much the same, with the propellers included. Thanks.

Nice build on an interesting subject.

Found this link which shows assembly of P-47s in the field - this gives good reference to how aircraft were packed for shipping overseas. Also interesting idea for a diorama. LOL

http://youtu.be/V2D3k0sJ8HM

Very very cool, Fred.

And what's that lurking in the background?

Most of the ship is built with most of the PE done. I sprayed the whole thing with rattlecan primer. The final color will be a lighter gray.

One more pic before I start shooting paint. This highlights all the modifications. I still have to make 12 electric winches and the booms. I don't know why the decks look tan, nothing is painted yet.

It turns out I had to move the other 20mm positions too. There is a section of the superstructure I had to add. The after gun positions near the 5 in will also require modifications.

"But, I got to thinking and see that about 2400 of 3200 survived the war, and 800 or so went into civilian service. "

Alaska Steam Navigation Company actually converted some Liberty ships to carry containers. The idea of a 10 knot containership with a steam reciprocating engine was not a success. 

A couple of this class can still be seen up in Alaska as hulks used for fish processing. The one in Kodiak is the Albert M Moe. The one in Dutch Harbor is now called the UNISEA. I haven't been up there in ten years. If I had realized this when I was in Kodiak and Dutch regularly I could have taken some pictures.

Fred

Here is one of the better photos I found of the type, though it's post war and the armament has been removed:

Several friends of mine were part of the crew when they went to Normandy. I mean recently, not in 1944.

TB said;

"I believe you are correct there .Olympic Steamship Co. Back in the seventies bought some VICTORIES and they had gone to the moth-ball group from the yard .They were all grey too .Deck -house, decks and hull."

 I have been thinking about what an interesting project this is and what I could do to the JOB model. In the end I think I'll go stock 1944 because it is a classic, I see her most every day and as noted before, I have excellent access to her.

But, I got to thinking and see that about 2400 of 3200 survived the war, and 800 or so went into civilian service. Over 600 were donated/ sold to the Greeks and formed the backbone of those dynasties. There's a pretty one on display I think in Piraeus.

Not surprising, but the cost of a short burst probably is more than the fuel oil cost of getting out beyond the Golden Gate.

I have it from a reliable source that one of the Oerlikons "works".

Late at night outside the Golden Gate...

I'm all for replacing splinter shields anyways. I usually make a horizontal saw cut across the base, sand the deck down a little and glue on a curled strip of beer can aluminum. Yep gotta take one for the team...

But you'd be moving them too.

Thanks you guys for the clarification on deck color- not too late to correct on my JOB.

Hi ;

I believe you are correct there .Olympic Steamship Co. Back in the seventies bought some VICTORIES and they had gone to the moth-ball group from the yard .They were all grey too .Deck -house, decks and hull .

Well I thought I was at the point that it was mostly just building the kit, but as I dry fitted things here I see that the 20mm gun tubs on top of the bridge are in the way of the two kingposts right in front of the bridge, so they will have to be moved outboard some. The plans show it but I didn't notice until now. The 20mm forward had to be moved forward to be clear of the #1 hatch.

Yes, painting. I have no pictures of these during wartime. The oldest pictures on that German Maritime Commission site are in 1947 when the armament was taken off and they were sailing for Military Sealift. Then they had white superstructures. I am sure during the war they would not be like that. I'll go with the all gray scheme usually recommended for wartime Liberties. In all the photos I looked at of Liberty ships, only a few had decks painted a different shade than the rest of the ship. 

That was story that had a lot of legs back in the day. It seemed to center around Kaiser built ships.

My grandfather would rant that welded hulls were an unfortunate innovation. But then he felt that way about a lot of things like smog devices on cars.

Fred what's the plan for paint. She was a Maritime Commission ship in 1945, correct?

Does that mean generic Ocean Gray? Were the decks really darker like Trumpeter shows on the box?

I always thought they were all one color.

Hi ;

    Looking at these plans ,can you see where the Liberties had an inherent problem ? You do know of course that some of these as well as the regular Liberties developed a problem of snapping  in two just forward of the Deck-house in rough weather , especially if loaded to their maximum planned gross weight .         T.B.

I just resolved the one detail I had doubts about, the number of windows on the bridge front. The plans don't show them, but grainy pictures showed more than the three small windows that the JOB kit has. On Navsource there are plenty of clear pictures of these ships in their later careers as radar picket ships. The Frank O. Peterson became the USS Scanner. It turns out they had a line of portholes, not windows, all the way across the bridge front. All the pictures are from the 1950s, but I am going to assume this detail was not changed in the conversion. If they were going to change anything there they would have made them windows, not portholes.

That makes sense. It would be faster to cut where needed and add where needed than re engineer the design. Not elegant, but effective. That had to make the deck detail miserable though.

I am amazed that those Lightnings could get below. And I agree there's not really any more disassembly possible than shown. Would involve a lot of tipping, tilting and probably shouting. But without wings I think they'd weigh less than 10,000 pounds.

My father in laws squadron was issued P-61s in Italy in November 1944. For the ocean voyage they had all of the open joints between the airframes and the movable (all metal) control surfaces thaped up. When that was stripped the black paint came off too. Really looked like hell. Just like a bad day at the bench!

Thanks everyone! As I get along on this I see why they needed those girders on deck. Usually the hold would have columns inside. But they had to have large open spaces to get the big planes in there, so the strength had to be on the outside.

This is a cool project.  I think L'Arsenal has some shore (piers, pilings, moorings, etc.) stuff but can't remember the scale if that helps at all.  I'll be watching this one!  

Groot

onyxman

I must say, the fit on this Trumpeter kit is not nearly as good as it was on the first one I purchased some years ago.

None of us are as fit as we were "some years ago" 

But in a slightly more intelligent vein ---GREAT Job! on your work so far this is a good example of how to:  model the model you want, from the model you have....

Cool build ! 

Hatch coamings done and kingpost assemblies started. There is this strange system of girders on deck. I suppose the holds are so large they needed extra stiffening. I must say, the fit on this Trumpeter kit is not nearly as good as it was on the first one I purchased some years ago.

Hatch openings are roughed out. They'll be a little wider than shown, but you can see that getting a P-38 in there required some careful stevedoring! It's so tight that I checked with Dad to be sure the planes were whole, minus the outer wings. He said they were. Looking at this, it seems the best use of space would be to stow them nose/tail athwartship. Doing that, I can see you could get about two dozen aboard.