Liberty Ship Complete

OK guys, I've already sanded down the oversized straps/beams/whatever on the hatch covers but I've left enough to represent thin, metal straps which I will, again, paint metallic gray. I've darkened the canvas to a deep greenish brown. That's the way I'll end up depicting it. As to the aircraft.... well, I'll make some sort of platform from evergreen which will cover the canvas and straps and which I'll show strapped down to the deck somehow. Its color will be either brown or the same gray as the rest of the ship. At least this is my tentative plan. I'm not so sure the S.S. Stephen Hopkins would have carried aircraft on her maiden voyage. If she did, I'm not sure they would have included Douglas SBD-3's. I don't think my friend would mind too much if I made that sort of mistake...I'm not sure any records of her cargo on her way out exist. Anyway you all have given me more insight into the hatch cover question ... my thanks to you.

Mike

Also a good overhead Liberty shot, Mike. See how those aircraft are stowed- the landing gear which is all the weight on account of the engine, are resting on those same little trestles as in Fred's photo, on the deck. The tails, which a group of guys could probably pick up, are over the hatches.

As for the color of the canvas, as in most things I'm no expert and judging from the photos of the era is a little difficult. But there's only so much available in the paint locker, and it's an exercise in maintenance, not esthetics, in particular in a merchant ship.

On a Navy ship, my assumption is that everything fabric gets painted a fabric paint of a particular color, usually something close to the deck color for camouflage. Boat covers, gun covers, navigation equipment covers, all the other stuff that gets covered when not at battle stations.

On a Liberty, again I would make the assumption that they were delivered from the yard with a set of canvas hatch covers, and I would also assume that most yards would see fit to paint them with a fabric paint close to the deck color.

I came across an archive document reprinted in a magazine article, stating that on her outbound journey  from San Francisco to Bora Bora, she carried a mixed deck and hold cargo of airplanes, trucks and cargo. I'd take that as a license to do as you plan and set up some aircraft. The armament is listed as one 4 inch gun at the stern, plus the 20s.

I think the Brown/ O'Brien has a 5" in the stern and a 3" in the bow, correct? Definitely a different outcome if Hopkins had been armed that heavily.

The book Liberty Ships by John Gorley Bunker has a number of pictures of a model of a liberty ship the Zebulon B. Vance photographed at the Mariner's Museum, Newport News, VA. These show a 5"38 on the stern, what is probably a 3" gun on the bow and four 20MM at the corners of the main deck house. Not definitive by any means but at least an indication of what was intended.

As for the bands over the hatches I prefaced my remarksd by what was Navy practice at least on the APA I was on. There were no bands used over the hatches on this ship nor any provision for them that I am aware of.

Thats correct, on the later fits. The Hopkins had the one 4" at the stern, as it's referred to extensively in the action report. In that fit, there was a single 20mm at the bow, on a sort of open platform, not a tub. If I were modeling her, I'd make the effort because it's a key part of the story.

Gentlemen,

The correct listing for the armament on S.S. Stephen Hopkins is listed in the article I referenced earlier in this thread. I include here both the article and the section of that piece which refers to her armament.

Mike

http://www.armed-guard.com/hoppy.html

That is great. No 20mm's, just 50 cal machine guns. The two 1.5" cannons are also something not seen on Liberty ship models. Notice just to the left of what you circled a general description of her cargo.

GMorrison,

I think you mean just to the right...

Yep, airplanes and trucks.

Mike

Correct. Now looking for 37 mm cannons on ships- they seem to look like big daddy 20mms.

I know some guys on the JOB. Everything there now is more in line with beg-borrow-steal than anything original. One guy was showing me the big lathe in the machine shop onboard, with a bubble level on the bed. Right...

I'll bet those 50's were the water cooled variety too. Could be a very interesting model.

I bought both the Alliance Modelworks 1/350 scale 40mm Bofors twin mounted guns as well as Master Model's Oerlikon 20mm USN guns. Not sure which I'll use. There are no 1/350 37mm guns around that I know of. The kit supplies machine guns or what look like resonable facsimilies.

Mike

Well a Bofors is usually recognized as a Navy gun only, until late in the war. Your Oerlikons will work fine as the 37mm. The forward gun (part C 36) that came with the kit is a good one for the stern gun.

Back to the canvas. It was never painted. That would make it too stiff to roll up and remove easily. The color would be green-ish or tan-ish. 

With regard to airplanes on deck, they would probably not be naval planes as they were usually ferried in carriers. In photos I've seen P-47 razorbacks, P-39s, P-38s and Hudsons. Bigger twin engine planes flew to the theaters. The Mustangs in my photo above were being carried post war, possibly to Israel via Italy. They do have their tails, but the P-47s that Tom's used to sell did not. 

Onyxman,

You've done it again - that is, you've given me definitive information of which I was in need. That picture, even accounting for color fading/shifting, is worth 1,000 words!

My hatch covers are now soaking in Simple Green for a couple of hours when I will remove all the paint on them and get to work repainting the canvas. I will, of course, paint dark gray on the bands that hold the the canvas down.

Thanks once more for the great research!!

Mike

 P.S. I can't find any of the combo set from Toms Modelworks you referenced so I may not use any aircraft on the hatches unless I can find some P-47's, P38 Lightnings or any Army Air Corps aircraft in 1/350 scale.

I'm happy to find some interest in my old photos. The first two were taken by my father in 1950. The color and quality of those old Kodachrome slides is amazing. The last one is one of mine in Sudan in the mid 70s. 

I got into a lot of weeds researching my Airplane Transport Liberty, which I will finish this winter. The story of how to get planes to the war theaters could be a book in itself. On decks of freighters was not really too efficient. The best way was ferried in carriers, and the Army wanted their own carriers! Fat chance of that. A good percentage went on the decks of tankers on the Meccano decks. Somebody needs to do a model of one of those...GM...

Hmm, but I've got this Liberty to do... and my CVE from a Hawaiian Pilot hull.

By the way, that black and white photo on page one here, of the Liberty with the P-47s on deck, has a color scheme I have never noticed before. The upper parts of the masts and booms and the stack are white or light gray. Interesting!

That B&W picture is a jpg of a screen shot I made from a Google search. It's actually from Photobucket. I don't have a clue about it other than, when I first saw it, I wondered if it was a photo of a real ship or a very convincing model. I think, but am not sure, it's a real ship. Too much water in the frame to be a model.

Mike

onyxman

By the way, that black and white photo on page one here, of the Liberty with the P-47s on deck, has a color scheme I have never noticed before. The upper parts of the masts and booms and the stack are white or light gray. Interesting!

 

There's a project!

But it got me to thinking that this might be some other kind of USAAF ship operated for some of the same reasons, and the white or gray stacks and booms certainly would make sense around helicopter operations. Thats all I have so far, plus I also found this photo, again unidentified. This one has jumbos too!

I thought the white tops were just a form of camo, so they wouldn't be so visible sticking up over the horizon. Like the tops on the BBs at Pearl Harbor. That last one has the cut outs for streaming anti torpedo nets.

Still working at the white masts.

Totally disregard any USAAF connection. The picture I posted most likely seems to be the SS Samvannah (?). A British Lend Lease Liberty ship.

Hi;

 Most of the YTB units in my time ,   few had Black Hulls . Most were haze grey . Now this Tug does look right for a small naval base out in the Pacific or the lesser bases on the East coast . Yes , many did have rusty black hulls and most were that way .The real big tugs ( ocean-going ) did have black hulls .     T.B.

Thanks for that info. I don't think I'll change the color of the hull of my little tug. I kind of like the black. I think it won't matter much to the friend to whom I'm giving the model but I appreciate the information.

When you say "real big tugs" what sort of length are you talking about? These Woban class harbour tugs were 100' long.

Mike

Here are some pictures of my current progress. I've managed to screw up several PE pieces as well as having lost a plastic kit part (I have two kits and was able to lose one part twice!

I really dislike viewing my WIP close up. Too many little things to correct - some of which are not correctable - at least by me. However it does show me some things I can take care of.

Since at least one person was interested in my posting my WIP on this ship I'll continue to do so.

I apologize to all those who know that I've goofed in building this kit as far as mistakes and accuracy goes. I'm having fun working on it anyway and I hope it will be worth the effort when I give it away to my friend.

Mike

Your Liberty ship is looking good....I've been working on mine, off and on, for quite sometime, as I've been stymied by the rigging. I intend to have my Liberty tied up alongside a pier and working two hatches in a yard-and-stay rig, but I'm having a hard time finding how to replicate the running rigging blocks - e.g., topping lifts, boom vangs, and cargo blocks. Do you have a plan to do this?

retdfeuerwehr,

No, I have no plan other than using the "Pulley Blocks" from the Gold Medal Models frets. How much running rigging I use is not something I've thought much about yet. The standing rigging I'll deal with in a minimal way. I'm portraying her being shoved (perhaps from a dock that I'm not going to create) into position by a tug to head out on her own. She'll have her booms cradled for being at sea. (See picture of SS John W. Brown I've attached.)

Assembling the GMM PE "pulley blocks" and "heavy lift pulley blocks" are going to try my patience I'm sure but I'll give them a try.

I suppose I'll be satisfied with minimal rigging but I'll have to look carefully at several photos of Liberty Ships I've found on the web. I'm including links to an old thread found here on FineScale that might help me on that account. Within the thread there are several links that, again, may be of interest.

Mike

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/155163.aspx

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/pe/gm_etch/350-31-liberty/ship_details.html

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/nrtc/14067_ch4.pdf

I have another update, albeit a small one but time consuming for me. I guess I'll never be able to attach PE the way I've seen it done on so many ship kits on this and other modeling sites but I'm getting a wee bit more confident with each set of PE I use on a build. I've tried other glues than CA but usually always come back to it. I also have a great little tool ( the "Bug" from "The Small Shop") in my arsenal of tools for bending brass but I'm not steady with my hands and fingers and, believe me, this is as good as I can get it at this stage.

Anyway, I'm just about done with the bridge section of the ship and am doing some last minute work on the hull and weather deck that I thought I'd completed but had to take off some parts that wouldn't have been there in 1942, putty the holes left by them, sand it down and get it ready for some more airbrushing.

For those of you interested, there were some obvious (to modelers) differences between the first Liberty Ships that were built by Kaiser in Richmond, CA in the spring of 1942 like the SS Stephen Hopkins that I'm trying to portray and other Liberty Ships from other yards even just a short time later - such as the SS John W. Brown. Instances of those differences are the shapes of the forward and aft gun platforms, the placement of the gun tubs, and the armament aboard. That's just for starters. Gold Medal Models PE, which is the PE set that I'm using, supplies early and late versions of life raft racks, two different versions of the railing for the open bridge assembly (John W. Brown and Jeremiah O'Brien), two versions of the stern railing for each of the aforementioned ships, and other details noted as "late war". Other differences in placement of various pieces of deck furniture can be noted in pictures of the SS Samuel Huntington (the SS Stephen Hopkins' sister ship next on the line after the Hopkins from the Kaiser yard) and the SS John W. Brown.

GMorrison, earlier in this thread, said

"Well a Bofors is usually recognized as a Navy gun only, until late in the war. Your Oerlikons will work fine as the 37mm. The forward gun (part C 36) that came with the kit is a good one for the stern gun."

The Bofors that I have look so good that, with my modeler's license , I may use them for the 37mm guns anyway. Please try to convince me otherwise if anyone believes that would be a major mistake.

Time for some painting.

Mike

I wish that promo/ad that was posted here after my last update were taken down. I just don't see how it contributes to this thread.

I just noticed it's down. Thank you moderators!

Anyhow, here's my latest update. It's full of my usual ham-fisted work but, from a distance, it still will look OK.

I had to change the front gun platform supplied in the kit to one that looks like the earlier Kaiser built ships - I'm using the S.S. Samuel Huntington (sister ship to the Stephen Hopkins) as a reference. I'm using my modeler's license to substitute 40mm Bofors in the forward gun platform for the twin 37mm cannon that were there whether or not the Bofors were in use in Liberty Ships at that time does not matter much to me at this scale.I did some cutting and some adding on of Evergreen to represent the platform as best I could.

Now I'm getting ready to paint the details I've added to the aft gun platform. You can see how I'm trying to protect the forward platform assembly from my hands and fingers. Invariably I end up bending the gun sights or some other fine detail if I don't protect that area.

getting ready to paint aft platform:

That's all for now.

Such nice work!

GMorrison,

Thanks. I think I'm gaining a little more confidence - if not dexterity - in my handling PE. It's actually become rather soothing for me now under most circumstances. The exceptions are when I lose those blasted little parts to the carpet monster or when I make a move with my hand that destroys the carefully shaped part I've been working on . But, hey, it's a learning process, right?

Mike