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Sloop-of-war, PELICAN model scratch build.

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  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Sloop-of-war, PELICAN model scratch build.
Posted by crackers on Monday, February 08, 2016 11:16 PM

I am returning after a few years. I would like to know the rules in posting photos. The only photos that are acceptable are from one's own camera and not from net sites, as this might be a violation of copyright laws. Is this correct ? Some of my ship models are scratch built from plans. Most the postings on this Forum deal with plastic kits. Is scratch acceptable ?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 12:07 AM

Anthony!

God love you sir, truly!

Last we talked there were plans for a POF group build.

No such rules, ever. Do it for shekels, sure. But do it for information never a trouble.

Truly sir its great to see you again. You'll remember me by Bondoman, or some such.

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 9:09 AM

Because the FSM forum does not actually host the pictures, merely link to them, it is easy to link to a picture on the web, but hard to post your own pictures (you need to host them at your own site or find a host).So there is no reason to copy and host a picture one finds on the web.

It is not a copyright violation to post a link.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 9:59 AM

Thanks Don for your reply. The reason I ask this question, because at one time I would pick various photos from various web sites and e-mail to friends and family. I was told not to make this a practice, as it violates copyright laws, unless permission is granted by the  author of the photo.
I use Flickr as a hosting site, as I can chose the size of the photo I wish to use. At the moment, I am in the first stages of wood scratch building the 1/64 scale British sloop-of-war PELICAN from the plans of the late Harold M. Hahn. I notice that the majority of ship models on the FSM site are plastic. Is wood scratch building allowable here ? And how doI use spell check, if available on this posting site.

Inquiring minds want to know.

                                                   Crackers  Smile

 

 

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 2:29 PM

Wood scratch is certainly acceptable, as most of us love to see someone wo can make more than sawdust out of a pile of wood.  I see no reason you can't double post in the scratch build page as well as the page for whatever the subject matter is.

 

Can't wait to see your work in progress andhow things are done, and learn things.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 3:15 PM
Ahhh, spell check, my pet peeve. Unfortunately after the revamp, spell check dropped off, although I bring it up on occasion, no joy. I will type on Word and copy/past into the post field to keep me from looking like an idiot.
Unfortunately Word can’t help me from actually being an idiot.

ON THE BENCH

1/25 Monogram 57 Chevy Bel Air
1/144 Trumpeter Kawanishi H6K5-L Mavis

Completing a kit is like cutting the head off a Hydra. Two more replace it in the stash.

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 3:20 PM

Thank you Goldhammer for your response. I am undecided if I should post my PELICAN scratch build under "Scratch building" or "Ships". As long as my model build is that of a ship, I'm more inclinded to post my log build in the "ship" section, as long as there is no objection to my decision. First, I must organize before I begin my posting.

By the way, is there a speller check on this Forum ? My correct spelling at times needs review.

         Thanks, Crackers   IndifferentBig Smile

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 3:25 PM

First off welcome back to the forums! Beer Welcome Sign

Second, post in both the scratch build and ship forums. It fits both and will be seen by more people. 

I don't think I would ever scratch build a ship, but, I would love to follow along and see one built!

And no, this forum no longer has spell check, I usually paste a word into google and let that spell check for me. 

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 4:01 PM

Thanks Hogfanfs for your response. This model was built by the late Harold Hahn. This is NOT my creation, but I hope my model build will look like this model when completed.

The original PELICAN was built in France in 1781, as the privateer FREDRICK. Captured by the 32 gun British frigate EMERALD and taken into the Royal Navy. Served as convoy patrol on the Irish Sea. Sold at the conclusion of hostilities with France in 1784.

  Best regards,     Crackers   IndifferentBig Smile

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    July, 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Tuesday, February 09, 2016 5:21 PM

Crckers,

It's good to see you back here! Personally, I would love to see your work here in Ships, but if I really have to go to the scratchbuilding section, then I will.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 1:19 AM

My main source of research and instructions for building the PELICAN model came from the book, "Ships of the American Revolution and Their Models", by the late Harold M. Hahn and his three sheet detailed plans of this model. Chapter six, on page 127, Hahn's book presents first with the history of the PELICAN, as was build as the privateer FREDERICK in 1781 in France. Following pages details the cutting out of numbered frames with a fine hobby band saw. These frames would then be fitted to a mounting jig for stability before planking. Final instructions deal with deck furniture, armament and later masting, yards and rigging.

Since I do not have the good fortune to own a fine hobby band saw, it was considered to use the balsa hull of the Revenue Cutter MORRIS from an old Ideal Model Ship Construction set. Ideal model kits of New York, were popular beginner kits in the 1950s when it was first purchased, then sat forgotten for 50 years gathering dust on a shelf. When rediscovered like some archeological artifact, the decision was made to kit bash this hull into a PELICAN model after the blunt bow was properly shaped and the stern lengthened an inch. When the balsa hull was transformed to the PELICAN dimentions, then it would be planked with 1/4 inch popsicle stick planks cut from my Micro-Mark hobby table saw. I have always thought popsicle sticks would make nice planks, since they are clear and blemish free.

To be continued with hull transformating and planking.  Happy modeling, Crackers SmileBig Smile

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by steve5 on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 3:25 AM

I am so looking forward to this

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 3:59 PM

Now, that the planning stage is considered, here are the tools that will be employed to shape the balsa hull. On the left are assorted files, tweezers, pliers, hobby knife, small saw, pliers and right angle square. The right, are the electrical tools, including the all functional Dremmel Rotary Tool and the Electro-File, a tool like the electric knife that slices the Thanksgiving turkey, only this tool, with its reciprocating motion, saws, files modeling parts.

The bow and the stern of the balsa MORRIS hull both have to be shaped to conform to the PELICAN plans. All those tools listed above will be used to accomplish this task The stern has balsa additions traced from that secion of the PELICAN profile. The spaces will be filled in with Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Filler that comes in a tube.

To be continued. Happy modeling   Crackers    IndifferentSmile

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    December, 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 4:50 PM

Good to see you AVS...I build most of my vessels...utalizing parts from kits, but scratch building most of the vessel.  I will be looking forward to your build.

Welcome back.....I didn't know you...but hope too.Cool

Rob

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Thursday, February 11, 2016 1:54 AM

At the left is a clearer picture of the balsa MORRIS hull, where the bow has to be sanded down to the same configuration as on the plans of the PELICAN. Bulkhead additions were added to extend the stern the one inch to agree with the Hahn plan. Open spaces between the extended bulkhead additions were filled with Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Filler.

If I may put in a plug for Elmer's wood filler, that should be included in every wood modeler's box. Unlike most wood fillers that are packed in cans, this filler is contained in a plastic tube that is squeezed out like tooth paste, then the lid screwed back on. This has the advantage of having the filler remaining soft without contact to the air, unlike most canned fillers that soon dry out into a hard lump to be discarded.

Trying to shape the balsa bow to agree with the Hahn plan required more planning. Consulting the plan drawings, the waterlines, which are horizontal stations drawn fore and aft, delinates the shape of the hull from the keel upward to the top of the bulwarks. On the Hahn plan, these waterline stations are marked "A" at the keel, then move upward to "F" at the waterline, where the ship meets its watery environment.

At each water line station at the bow, cardboard templates were cut out and labeled as seen at the left picture. Taking my Electro-File and inserting a sanding pad on the tip of the instrument, the bump on the balsa bow was gradually sanded down, while every so often, a bow cardboard template was inserted where a penciled "A" to "F" station was drawn to see that the sanding agreed with the template profile. After a slow sanding process, the balsa bow took the shape of the Hahn plan bow.

Now that the balsa bow and stern agree with the PELICAN plan, it's time to begin planking the hull with 1/4 inch wide planks cut from popsicle sticks on a hobby table saw. Before planking, the keel, the bow cutwater and the rudder stem was glued in place. Each horizontal plank was held in place with small elastic bands. Metal planking screws with an attached tab to hold the plank in place and also to prevent the plank from slipping sideways by the pull of the elastic bands. The copper penny gives the scale of the project.

The hull planking is now completed and brush painted with Minwax Polyurethane, to seal the wood and fill tiny spaces. Painting the hull with acrylic paints will happen later.

Before the deck planking began, each popsicle plank was rubbed with a black felt tip pen to sinulate the oakum and tar cauking that was used on the real 18th century ship to prevent water from leaking between the planks onto the inside deck.

It's time now to plank the deck. To hold the model hull upright in a secure position, Model Shipways, Fair-A-Frame was used for this purpose. This device is used to build plank-on-bulkhead model ships, where the keel is secured in place by two horizontal clamps held in place by winged screws, while vertical supports prop up each bulkhead.

Here, the deck planking process has begun, while on the right panel, planking is completed. This panel also shows how the Fair-A-Frame holds the model hull secure. Wooden pegs were placed in holes where future masts were to be inserted. While decking planking, these wooden pegs made sure deck planking was accomplished around the mast holes, rather than over these holes.

The completed deck planking was stained with Minwax Golden Oak stain.

To make sure the mast holes were drilled absolutely true and straight in a vertical position for the future masts, a template was devised consisting of a plastic soda straw held in a upright position by wooden triangular supports. This template was placed over the mast holes and drilled deeper by my Dremel Cordless Electric Drill. The right panel is only for demonstration purposes. When actually drilling, both hull and template were held firmly in hand. Using a 90' right angle straight edge as a check, all three holes were found to be accurate.

I see by the clock, it's bed time. To be continued by copper simulation of the hull bottom.

     Happy modeling      Crackers    IndifferentBig Smile

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Saturday, February 13, 2016 2:00 AM

Applying copper sheathing on the hull of a ship. Ever since mankind took to the sea in ships four or more thousand years ago, a persistant problem was how to prevent the growth of marine organisms on hull bottoms that reduced the speed of the vessel. The ancient Romans used lead sheathing with limited results. In the 17th century, European maritime nations coated their ship's bottoms with white lead with other componants. That's why models of 17 and 18th century ships have white hulls. In October 1761, a permanent solution was found when the British Admiralty coppered the 32 gun frigate ALARM with a copper bottom. Deployed to the Caribbean on a trial experament, the ALARM returned to England with positive results when in drydock. It was found that the green copper oxide poisoned any marine organism that tried to attach itself. However, it was noticed that the iron spikes used to attach the copper sheats had some deterioration, as the English did not understand the process of electrolysis chemical reaction between two different metals in sea water. Not until a copper alloy of copper and zinc spikes used for attachment was the problem solved. The ALARM had a 34 year career when broken up at Portsmouth in 1812.

After the FREDERICK was captured in 1781 and her lines taken off in England, it was noted that she was copper bottomed. This probably was one of the first private French ships to receive this treatment, a theory that she was destined to have special planning before her abrupt privateering career.

On my model of the PELICAN, a "copper' bottom is to be attached. First, the horizontal waterline on the plan, labeled station "F", was transferred from the plan to the model hull by using draftsman's dividers. Each point was noted with a pencil mark. When completed, the marks were joined by a line around the hull that designated the waterline. Masking tape was then pressed in place above the waterline, as seen on the right panel.

Tissue tracing paper was then attached to the model hull with clamps securing the paper on the keel. A pencil was then drawn around the masking tape to indicate the area that is to be "coppered". This section was cut out with scissors as a template and set aside. Without any complaint from "the queen of the kitchen", my wife gladly gave me her aluminum cooking foil for the "coppering" operation.

On a long rectangular strip of aluminum foil, the tracing paper template of one side of the hull was first soaked in water, then set in place on the aluminum foil. Soaking in water made the paper adhere to the foil. The same process for the port side, then the aluminum was carefully cut out with an Exacto hobby knife, as indicated on the right panel.

The aluminum foil is to represent the copper sheathing on the real PELICAN. These two "copper"replicas were then attached to their respective places on the hull with Elmer's Spray Adhesive, then rubbed with finger tips constantly to remove any wrinkles on the surface. When this process was completed, the foil was painted with FolkArt metallic copper acryllic paint. When dried, the "copper" surface was then lightly coated with Apple Barrel lime green to simulate copper oxide patina on a real vessel.

On the left is the finished results with the masking tape on the waterline yet to be removed. After the tape was pulled off, the upper section of the hull was painted with FolkArt yellow ochre acryllic paint, as was common on British ships of that era.

To be continued with construction of the model base and support.   Happy modeling

      Crackers    ConfusedBig Smile

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    August, 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:44 AM

Alright Crackers ;

   We, in Ships and Scratch - Building are watching you . Nice start so far . Don't worry about spelling , if you get the point across , who Cares ? Now that your back , which is great  - Git Hustlin .    Tanker - Builder

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:47 AM

Thanks Tanker-Builder for your response. I thought I'd get more interest in my thread.

           Crackers     ConfusedSmile

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    July, 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:58 AM

Crackers,

I for one am following along with great interest. Seeing someone scratch build a wooden ship model is amazing and instructive. I do not think I could scratch build a ship although I do tend to scratch small things for my plastic ships.

Please keep posting. I know how frustrating it can be when you take the effort to post a WIP and you see how many views you are getting but very few replies or comments. Sorry, I do not want to sound negative, but I have a migraine.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, February 13, 2016 12:13 PM

I'm here, just watching and learning.

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Saturday, February 13, 2016 12:34 PM

Thanks all for your interest. Much appreciated.

Happy modeling   Crackers  WinkSmile

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Saturday, February 13, 2016 1:20 PM

Now that the PELICAN hull has been completed, it's time to think about mounting the model. Adding deck furniture, masting and rigging will come later. This is critical, because if I were to add these components now, they would be damaged while fumbling the hull trying to secure ther model on the base. On the right panel, a cardboard deck template has been placed on the wooden base bottom with plenty of room for the additional bowsprit. This will indicate just where the model is to be secured. This same template will be used to position the deck furniture in the correct order. All I do is mark the spot on the deck with a pencil, then glue the correct furniture on that spot. The "frame" around the base bottom is slotted to receive future glass panels as a display case.

Now, I propose to have some fun, which might freak out model purists with cardiac arrest. I have been considering making a mini-diorama, by adhearing fine sand on the bottom of the display case, then adding small sea creatures, such as sharks, fishes, an octopus and sea shells. Above this will be a simulated sea with a couple of leaping porpoises ahead of the PELICAN that will be secured to this pseudo sea. Is this proposal whakco or what ? Maybe some input to this idea.

To be continued. Happy modeling.   Crackers      SadBig Smile

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    March, 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Saturday, February 13, 2016 1:50 PM

I very much like the idea .. having a display in which diorama and wood base are kind of mixed will be a very decorative thing. I think that is the weakest point on many dio´s.. how to "cover" the miniature-worlds "end" and how to "start" with real world.

To not at all cover it and haveing the "change of world" as a kind of natural thing will be interesting.

The question: who to simulate the sea? Only a thin surface? Will be tricky to keep it in place, have the right surface and not having it too thick.

Or generating the hole "block" of water from the bottom of the sea until its surface? .. then how to generate the sides .. straight and clear as in a fish tank? ..

I am looking forward to this! Very much like the idea!

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Saturday, February 13, 2016 2:25 PM

Watching also. I like building wood boats and ships.

 

EJ

Completed - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, February 13, 2016 2:58 PM

I have never seen anyone scratch build a ship before ., this is so educational ., please keep them coming , enjoying every single addition .

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Saturday, February 13, 2016 5:44 PM

Crackers,

Threads like yours are invaluable to me. I learn a lot from many people on this site and your scratch building WIP is no exception. We're watching!!

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

fox
  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Coatesville, Pa.
Posted by fox on Saturday, February 13, 2016 8:38 PM

Watching your build closely.  My avatar was a plank on bulkhead kit.  Love wooden ships.  You are doing a great job on your build.  Keep up the great work.

Jim  Captain

Photobucket Main WIP: Rebuild of Monogram 1/8 "Big Deuce" with 1/8 Pocher V-12 in rear - 10%

   On the Bench:   Revell 1/48 Ju 52/3m - 50%;  Revell 1/96 USS Kearsarge - 20% 

I keep hitting "escape", but I'm still here.

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:00 PM

Sorry for the delay in upgrading my thread. Been out of town and required to complete some honey-do projects around the house.

On the top panel, are two small model supports made out of beads that will hold the hull in place on ther surface of the display case base. Next to these supports are four dowels carved in a spiral configuration to support the sea diorama. Carving these spirals on dowels required a study hand on my home made lathe powered by an electric drill. A gouging head was chucked into my Dremel MotorTool and applied to the rotating dowel on the lathe. Moving the Dremel slowly with my right hand in a study slow motion, a spiral was carved into the dowel. After several disappointing tryouts, my task was finally accomplished.

These supports were then painted with acrylic sea green to match the proposed aquarium environment beneath the model.

Holes were drilled on the center of the display base for the beaded supports, top panel. To make sure the model hull is on a true horizontal position with the model base, a carpenter's leveler was placed on the model deck. The bubble found the exact center.

After the hull has be situated in place, it is time to consider making a template of the sea surface that will surround the hull water line.

The hull was turned up-side down. A scrap block of wood was placed next the the hull, as seen at left. Thin scaps of wood were placed under the larger wood block until the top surface on the block of wood was on the same height as the model water line. A metal right angle square was positioned around the hull to make sure the model water line agreed with the block of wood top surface.

Next, long rectangular strips of cardboard were cut out with scissors. On one end of this strip was trimed to conform with the model water line, then glued onto the wood block. This task continued until both port and starboard water lines were covered, as seen on the right panel.

When all the card board strips were aligned with the model water line and glued, the wood block was flipped up-side-down and placed on a fresh card board surface where both port and starboard sections edges were traced with a pencil. The water line profile was cut out with a pair of scissors, then placed on the upturned surface as a water line template for the future clear plastic sheet that will become the diorama sea.

Here is the completed card board template that will be the future clear plastic sea. This template is supported by the four spiral supports seen earlier. When this sea is completed, the "aquarium" sea life will be displayed under the surface. Shopping at Michael's craft store, my wife selected these denizens of the deep. Granted, they are all over scale in size. If these creatures were in correct scale, they would be too small to be seen. The Sculpey polymer clay will be used to create an octopus and a sting ray, plus other small fishes.

   To be continued.

 

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:26 PM

Hi folks, I'm back again. Just about a year ago, I started  the thread on scratch building, the British sloop-of -war, HMS PELICAN, the ex-French privateer, FREDRICK captured by the British in 1781 and payed out of service in 1784 at the conclusion with the war with France. The model is based on the plans of the late Harold Hahn. I got bored with the project and just now decided to return to the Forum.

All the deck furniture is NOT secured in place. The guns and other deck gear is just for show and tell for this thread. They will be removed so that my fingers can belay the rigging lines to their respective places on the belaying racks. From past experience, deck furniture only impeded the rigging task.

Closer detail of the mid-section of the PELICAN deck The gun tackler will not be rigged in place. My fingers just do not have the ability to complete this task.

Close detail of the stern section. The capstan is that dark brown dot on the deck in the center of the picture. A skylight is on the left side of the capstan, while a companion way is on the right side of the capstan. This is the arrangement as shown on the Harold Hahn plans. When it came time to insert ther capstan bars in place and have the crew heave on the capstan to haul in a rope, how could this be accomplished with a skylight and companion way in place ? Would the crew have to have long legs to step over these structures ? Inquiring minds want to know.

Stern detain of the PELICAN. The ship's name was accomplished with transfer letters that are rubbed into place at the end of a blunt dowel. The ring by the letter "I" on the PELICAN, is a ring to tow the ship's launch during battle. During engagement, the ships boat, or boats were often towed behind the warship, so that the boats would not be damaged during the heat of battle.

Bow detail of the PELICAN. The windlass is not my best work. I had to struggle to make it as it is. The bell is from an eyelet of an old boot that had to be pounded and shaped into place. The deck flooring are popsicle sticks cut to size with simulated tar caulking by rubbing a black felt tip marker along the edge.

My next entry on this thread will be on how the model arrived with details on this present stage.

Happy modeling    Crackers    Confused

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:37 PM

Wonderful. 

 

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