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Serious Dive into PE USS England and GM PE Set ???

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  • Member since
    January, 2015
Serious Dive into PE USS England and GM PE Set ???
Posted by Radial9 on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 2:38 PM
I have spent a great deal of time reading the Ships forum of late. I read with interest the suggestion of USS England as a first ship. The Trumpeter kit, along with the GM PE set is now in house. I also picked up a used copy of David Griffith’s Ship Models From Kits and am studying it too.
Would this combination be a suitable intro into detailed PE as well as a ship? I have a few kits with PE under my belt now, complete with all the frustrations that entails. I was able to fit “most” of the PE on the aircraft, but must admit to taking a pass on some of the much smaller “fiddly bits”.
I’m not looking for museum quality work here. I just wish to spend some time this year gaining some useful experience working with PE. I know it’s going to be a challenge, but I don’t wish to set myself up by over-reaching. The wife gave me a nice gift certificate to the LHS and I bought a nice PE bender clamp with it, among other goodies.
Am I heading for disaster here, or if I take my time, would this be in the realm of doable? It appears most ships have much more quality PE than aircraft. Opinions, suggestions and warnings are all welcome. Thanks.
Cheers,

 

Bob
  • Member since
    April, 2011
  • From: Western Chicago Suburbs
Posted by John T on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 3:01 PM

Bob - If you read what I said on the other thread, then you probably know what I'm going to say. There has to be a first time for everything, and this kit is a good one in which to try your hand with Naval PE.  Be prepared for mistakes (these can usually be salvaged), frustration, and "sailor speak".  Be patient and take your time. The key is to enjoy the process (well, try anyway!) and the outcome.  I'm betting that you'll be pleasantly surprised with the result.

I am not as experienced as others in the forum, but have a couple of efforts under my belt, so feel free to message me directly if you'd like.

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 3:12 PM

I'd say it's pretty close to a perfect choice. Everything John said is spot-on, but I'll add this; the joy of doing p-e on a small ship in the DD/DE/patrol boat size range is that you're usually not doing any more than 4-6 of any assembly. That's enough to develop a bit of technique---and enjoy the results---without facing the daunting prospect of having to do, say, two dozen more 20mm gun mounts as you would for a capital ship. You get to try a bit of everything...and work out some of the kinks...without being overwhelmed.

Of course...the process can be addictive. You may find yourself doing that 1/200 Bismarck before you know it....Propeller

Enjoy your project. (And, of course, show us the results!)

Greg

 

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."

 

"

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 5:41 PM

Hi Bob ;

  Listen , I have now done four U.S.S. England ships .Why ? Well , they have different names , numbers and paint . Not , that I care .I just like the England , Butler and other ships of these classes .They are fun to build and YES , they will help you sharpen your P.E.Skills .

    Now on each one there are differences . Why ? well I built them to reflect the differences in equipment they might come with . The major thing is this . Inclined ladders . Whatever you do , Don't bend these more than once and if you get the side rails and handrails correct then one flip with postage stamp ( Square end ) tweezers and there you have it .Proper slant and proper stair treads .

   What ever you do . If possible Cover the P.E with some kind of primer . I drop the frets in a shallow layer of vinegar .Wash well afterward and dry , then prime . There will be some come off at the bends . That's alright just touch them up .This way during handling and painting they will hold onto the paint and look great when done .

 Now , don't fall into the " Gotta have this or that bending tool " Rut . I have just about all of them . I still go back to smooth jaw . square sided jewelers pliers and flat postage tweezers . For the long or large pieces I use a very large Office clip  ,The type with flat jaws trapped in a curved spring .

 Curves and bends are done with medicine bottles , X-Acto knife handles and Tube brass of different sizes .The tools made are nice . The thing is , Use what you and your hands , eyes and mind are comfortable with . Shoot , on some bends I still use old wooden dowels .

 The England will be fun . Be patient and a great looking little ship will be your result . T.B. P.S. Don't do what I did . Don't make it sea and deck blue . You'll need a flashlight and magnifier to admire it ! Wonder how I know that ? LOL.  T.B.    P.P.S. You'll find in 1:350 that the darker the color , the smaller the ship looks . No , it didn't shrink , The darker colors make them look smaller !

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 10:47 PM

Bob,

Toull be a little challenged because it's a small scale.

I rely on a pair of single edge razor blades. Hold one edge down on the fold point. Slide the other under one side and bend up.

Look hard at photos. Railing runs usually aren't very long in real life. They get interrupted by stuff like chocks, davits and cleats.

Dont make joins at corners.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:06 AM

See " G " ;

   Even I forget to say stuff . Very good advice ! T. B.

  • Member since
    April, 2011
  • From: Western Chicago Suburbs
Posted by John T on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 10:31 AM

Agree that corner joins aren't ideal. But I've found that it's often that or (1) cutting a section between posts and joining to a post to create the correct "run length", or (2) adding a piece of stock to serve as the corner post.  There aren't too many, if any, sharp/90 angles made in the railing without being tied into the deck at the turn. How do you solution this problem?

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by Marcus McBean on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 5:14 PM

I  also found GM book on PE most helpful, but I have to agreed with everyone else, you just have to develop your skills and know you limitations.  I have to say I wasted enough PE getting to were I am (and that not saying much) and there are some bends that are out of my league.  I thought I could never assemble the radars on my KMS Scharnhorst, but I did and they look great!

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by Radial9 on Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:59 PM

Thank you Gentlemen for the feedback. I hope to be done with my BF110D by the end of April. Will open the England next and giverago. I may be coming back here with more questions. Will try to limit them to those that I can't get answered by a search or reading materials. I know one issue that is going to come up, and that is learning a whole new warship vocabulary and naval jargon in general. This fly boy (I'm also a real pilot) will have to spend some time with Google to understand what's called what where it is....

Cheers,

Bob

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, March 09, 2017 3:46 PM

I built enough 4 sided radar towers at 1/700 to learn to do a trial with paper sometimes.

 

And lets face it, there is plenty of PE out there that cannot be built.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Saturday, March 11, 2017 8:56 AM

Hey " G " ;

   I am glad you said that .There are in fact many pieces of P.E. that would befuddle most of us . Rare , But they are out there . I learned tricks in paper that helped me on some P.E . and haven't tried to over do .  T.B.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:43 PM

Watched the 'Enemy Below', good war flick wit Robert Mitchum the CO of a DE playing cat-n-mouse with Kurt Jurgens the CO of a Type VII.   The DE was described as a Buckley-class,  but it has 3-inch guns in A, B,  X and Z positions and no torpedo tubes.  

The ship was played inthe movie by USS Whitehurst,  which in post-war refits received this armament configuration.  The opening credits show DE-181, the USS Staub a Cannon-class DE.  

Some good shots of bulkhead details, such as Stokes stretchers & other stuff.  

May need to join into this build of a DE

  • Member since
    April, 2011
  • From: Western Chicago Suburbs
Posted by John T on Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:42 PM

Great background stuff, Ed.  The Enemy Below is a great movie whose plot has been re-used in other movies and TV series.  Whitehurst was modified over the summer of 1945 following a kamikaze strike; this is when she lost her tubes in lieu of cable reels for her conversion into a power generation ship.  Watching the movie more time than I can count, it also appears to me that a number of changes to the bridge were also made when compared to the initial wartime construction.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:54 PM

Can't really add anything here. Good luck and have fun.

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  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by Radial9 on Sunday, March 19, 2017 10:40 AM
Ok… so I bit and bought the $3.99 online download of “The Enemy Below” and enjoyed watching it last night. Back when movies were “manly”. Great story, good overview of the Buckley class DE. I noticed, among other things, the splinter shields were much higher than what is molded in this kit. I also have been reading David Griffiths book Ship Models From Kits and got the Nov 2008 issue of FSM from evil bay and have read the overview of this build from it. Lots of good pics. Will search around the forums for more builds too.
Would I be taking on too much to follow David Griffith’s advice and sand off the splinter shields and try to replace them with .002 brass sheeting? Might be smart to just stick to the PE this first time out.
I’m going to have more questions over the next few weeks I’m sure, and will start a new thread. If Navy blue is too dark, what might some suggestions be for the gray for deck and structures?. What about the hull? I see the kit is already painted red below the waterline. Do most builders simply paint over it, and if so, what color below water line? Will probably stick with acrylics.
Thanks!

 

Bob
  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, March 19, 2017 11:17 AM

There is a danger in poring off too much to chew through enthusiasm, but it's also creative.

but don't limit yourself to brass. Thin styrene is good too.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Sunday, March 19, 2017 1:09 PM

Hi;

   One of the things I learned early on is this . If the splinter shields are not molded on You can thin them carefully by sanding . You can actually ( if you choose ) ( I've have done this numerous times .) Use heavy card stock in place of brass .

    It's not that hard and it will look just as good when painted . In The Enemy Below, I think the ship was supposed to be the darker grey that some used back then .The Pacific ships used the Blue more .

  After my debacle with the England, I will Never paint a small ship In Sea Blue with Deck Blue decks ever again ! Just a tidbit here . I started using cardstock for those things when I built the Second Revell , U.S.S.Buckley and then did this to the U.S.S. Buchanon ( Campbelltown ) . Then someone said Hey ! They have little brass parts for planes .

    That same party said later Hey , they now have brass rails for the Buckley . I never looked back ! ( Yea Sure ! ) The old methods still work sometimes . T.B.

  • Member since
    April, 2011
  • From: Western Chicago Suburbs
Posted by John T on Monday, March 20, 2017 12:11 PM

Tanker - Maybe I missed that story...what was the debacle with the England?  I agree whole-heartedly that Measure 21 is a boring look, especially on smaller scales and classes of ships - I finished the Laffey like that and it's a solid dark blue-gray mass.  But that was the point.  I'm thinking of trying to lighten the colors for scale on the next small boy using that paint scheme.

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