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1/96 RVL Constitution Build, reference and source guide.

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  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, March 18, 2018 11:28 PM

As mentioned in my previous post I had items stolen from my mailbox. One of the items was the FSM 10 yr collection 2009-2017. For the police report I had to contact kalmbach publishing to find the true value since I had gotten it on a special deal. I was also going to re-order. The Lady I spoke too was not only very pleasant but she shipped me out a new order for free ! This really surprised me. So Kudos to FSM magazine and Kalmbach publishing you got my business forever.   Dale

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, March 18, 2018 11:19 PM

Hi Gene, thanks. I have not done a whole lot more since you seen it. Do have all the spardeck guns actually glued and tied in place now.  Trying to find the right size deadeyes with holes big enough to allow for the right size line has been an issue.  I should of planned this before gluing hull halves together. The pins that hold the chain link straps in place, that I found would work need to be pushed through hull. The pins are like cotter pins where you can seperate into 2 halves after pushing through hull and bend in opposite directions. This along with gluing will assure holding the chainplates and deadeyes in place. Just gluing is not goint to suffice, if any pressure is put on the same.

Also I had someone steal several items from my mailbox equalling to about $130, so that kinda put a cloud on my building mood this past week.

I am going to be off mon & tues and hope to make some more progress on the netting mounted to my stanchions for drying hammocks and kits.

I have really been looking over the BlueJacket Constitution manual and plans. I previously had only glanced at them, now wish I had really read all the manual and looked closely at the plans.  I suggest to anyone who is wanting to do a bit more and beyond than a OOB build to get that manual and plans and scrutinize them well. I would not be having the issues I am now if I had.

ShipWreck got me looking and BlueJacket has all the deadeyes etc at what should be the right size. Just refer to the plans and numbers on parts list and you can order about anything off the parts list. One of those "gray moments" I am sure it will not be the last.  

  • Member since
    February, 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Friday, March 16, 2018 4:28 PM

Dale, what are you doing on your Connie now. I keep  looking at them & a new one is down to $68 shipped. They have a bunch on ebay, all new & at cheaper prices. These are made in China. I thought the new ones were made in Germany, or is that just the USS United States?

    I would probably get one, but it is sort of dumb for me to have more than a years supply, & that is what I have, plus. Anxious to see more of your pictures after seeing the real thing you are building. It really looks good.

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:49 AM

Thanks my friend. I was doing the math at the first price and it was like $80 in just pins. I can handle $40 or so. That is to replace all the pins on kits pin rails and fife rails, thing is you dont actually even use them all.

  • Member since
    May, 2006
  • From: Irmo, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:30 AM
I just called BlueJacket. The $8 price for the .25" pins is wrong: it S/B $4.25 per dozen!

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

  • Member since
    May, 2006
  • From: Irmo, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 6:46 AM

Dale, try BlueJacket; they have .25" or 6.35 mm belaying pins part number FO119. That is .35 mm longer than the kit pins; but you will not see the difference. The problem is that they are pricey at $8 per dozen (I suspect that the listed price may be wrong).

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 1:29 AM

Gene, yes they do. I have some 5mm brass pins, but they are a bit too small. I have yet to find any 6mm brass pins, that is what I would rather have than the wood or white metal. 

  • Member since
    February, 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:06 PM

Dale , do they still make or sell brass belaying pins? I used a lot of them years ago. They are treally nice. 

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, March 10, 2018 5:38 PM

The brass strap comes in different lengths, going to measure them tonite. This strop (top left) is for 5mm deadeye.

Deadeye to left is the MS 4mm to right is the Falkonet 5mm. The holes are almost into the channel the strop fits in on the Falkonet.

Hard to see in pic, but the white metal 6mm belay pin has around 1/3-1/4 thinner pin. If your making pin or fife rails and make them a bit wider than the kits, then the wood belay pins would look good.

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:28 PM

I will post some pics here shortly on all those items so you guys can see what I am talking about. 

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:22 PM

Steve here ya go bud  http://modelexpo-online.com/MS2999B-14-LONG-65MM-WHITE-METAL-BELAYING-PINS--FOR-SCALES-175-AND-UP-150PK_p_1353.html might have to cut down the length a touch.

 

PS there on sale too 150 for 9.99

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:45 PM

can I ask where you got those belaying pins mate , would like to have a look at them please . steve5

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, March 10, 2018 10:48 AM

My sabbatical is over, back to the build. I had an order from Model Expo come in. The Falkonet 5mm deadeyes are a waste of time. The 3 lanyard line holes are the same size as holes in the 3.5mm Model shipways deadeye and they cannot be enlarged due to them being to close to outer edge. Plus they actually do not look that great and are thinner than the smaller deadeyes from MS and will be a prob getting the metal strops to fit properly. 5mm deadeyes do appear to be the right fit though. I did get mantua part #42870 which is metal strop with a link and metal strap to attach to hull, that really look good and seem to be the right size. They are designed for 5mm deadeyes. So now I will wait for MS to have some walnut 5mm deadeyes in stock. Will advise on actually amount needed once I get to that part of the build.

I also got some 6mm white metal belaying pins that look alot better than the wood pins I previously ordered. They are about a third thinner, so should fit the pin and fife rails in kit perfectly. Just want to point out that the walnut pins I had previously gotten look great, there just too thick for the kits rails and that made them appear out of proportion. Now I have to find out how to paint white metal fittings. Suggestions please !

I did the forward port side stanchion for hammock drying like suggested in the RVL instructions. Which involves a very tedious wrapping of 3 lines to the inside and same to outside. End result looked more like a rope walkway than a place to dry out hammocks and kits. I got some netting from MS #2828. That looks great, I know there has been a lot of discussion about these drying setups, some say netting others canvas and later models wood. I do not care if its not really correct, it looks alot better than what RVL suggests. Will post weekends progress soon..... Dale

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 8:00 PM

Hi Bill, I have seen the HiS ads, but have not ever checked any of it out. I will for sure do so now at your suggestion.

Got the 1/4" oak belaying pins, they are the right length and do look like mini pins, but are too thick and to me just do not look right. So I now have around 150 belaying pins of different sizes for future builds. Do believe going with 1/4" metal will be the ticket.

The deadeyes I got from model expo look great, but the holes in them are not going to be even close enough to the right size for the appropriate size line. Not sure if there is enough space between holes to enlarge enough without holes joining.

I might take a few weeks break from this build and work on one of many other models or RC boat/plane. I am feeling a bit frustrated with trying to find the right stuff to continue my build. Think I will start on my 1/16 Wright flyer, do some wood work, thats more familiar to me.

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 8:39 AM

Dale,

Have you considered the aftermarket products for this kit offered by HiSModel in Czechoslavakia?  Radek makes outstanding sails, blocks, flags, and other products that you might find helpful.  He primarily sells through an EBay store but also has his own website.  Check him out.

Bill

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Monday, February 26, 2018 12:38 PM

I had also recieved that ad and was looking it over when I seen your post. It looks to be very good quality at a more than reasonable price if it is of the quality being claimed. I am going to order a few different sized blocks. Will let yall know how it is.

  • Member since
    May, 2006
  • From: Irmo, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Monday, February 26, 2018 12:10 PM

FYI, I just received this email from Falkonet; a Russian supplier that are distributing through Model Expo It may be of interest to some of you!

 

http://modelexpo-online.com/Falkonet--F20B2--Double-Block-2mm-Pear-Wood--Pack-of-10-pcs-_p_1922.html

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

  • Member since
    February, 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Friday, February 23, 2018 8:30 AM

Sure will, Dale!  Likewise, as you find stuff, please post!

I am learning much from you and others here.   Please keep up the great discussion!

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Friday, February 23, 2018 8:09 AM

Hi fellow NC'er and welcome to the forum Steve. Thanks for the compliments.  I already checked out your website and will be ordering a few things (ships wheel for sure) from you, Very nice looking items at a very reasonable price. I totally agree Syren has great products, I am very impressed with the rigging line I got from them. Once you know which size blocks and quantities needed, I and I am sure others would appreciate you posting what you found was needed..... Dale

  • Member since
    February, 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Friday, February 23, 2018 7:56 AM

Great discussion and photos!

The Revell 1/96 Constitution is probably my favorite model kit.

The Revell Constitition I currently have is the second of two I have built in the course of 40 years.  The first was lost many years ago and I built the present model nearly 20 years ago.  Portions of it are now being reconstructed, re-rigged and repainted based on new research and some of the tips talked about here.

The first Revell Constitution I built was a birthday gift from my late father back in 1976.  I feel close to him as I work on this second model. 

The present model was orignally painted according to either Revell's instructions or how the Smithsonian's 1/48 scale model is painted (red ochre gunwales, white lower masts and mast bands, varnished wood yards, gold moldings on peak and transom). 

The new colors are very different.  They are a hybrid of those shown on the Hull Model (red transom details, green gunwales, rails and moldings, etc.) and colors depicted in 1812-1813 paintings done by Corne and his assistant George Ropes (buff gun stripe and lower masts, black mast bands and yards, white moldings on peak, galleries and transom, red window framing, etc.).  The colors I chose may not be accurate but I like them.

Aftermarket possibilites are much better now.  Had the aftermarket wood deck been available when I built the model, I would have used it.  Some of the kit's parts are being replaced with 3D-printed products such as accurate Columbia Iron Works 1808-pattern carronades, ship's wheel and upper and lower capstans.  Although more accurate 3D-printed Cecil 1808-pattern 24-pounder cannons are available, the model is too far along to replace those kit parts, sadly.  I'll be designing more 3D-printed parts for the model soon.  I'd like to design more accurate and better detailed ship's boats for 3D-printing. The kit's plastic blocks are being replaced with wood blocks from Syren Ship Model Company (very nice).

Hope all of you are enjoying your builds very much.

Thanks for the terrific discussion!

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, February 21, 2018 11:13 AM

Tks much guys for the help ! This has/is a learning experience. During my Visit with Gene1 I did learn some things I wish that had knew at start of my build. Mostly my base and wish I had known about pinning before assembling hull. But even with that, Gene thought I had done a nice clean build, that to me is a big compliment from a master builder !

I got 3/16 belaying pins from model expo, there too small. I have 1/4 on the way. Along with them I have a couple different size wood deadeyes coming. I will for sure be using the pins, still not sure about doing the deadeyes. It might be more than I am capable of achieving yet. Also have some 3mm cannonballs for the cannonades coming in order from expo.

I did get the suggested book by George Biddlecombe "The Art of Rigging" looks to be a very interesting and informative read.

  • Member since
    May, 2006
  • From: Irmo, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:13 AM

LIVIT

 I am going to mark out the glue line and clean the paint off the hull. 

Dale, I think you definitely need to scrap off the paint in order to get a good bond on those channels. Gene1 had it nailed: "The main thing I do with channels ( I have heard them called shroud tables) is to make sure you have a plastic to plastic glue joint, that means NO paint. I glue them on before I paint with AC. ( or CA)." I plane on glueing on the channels before I paint the hull. They will be glued on with liquid glue reinforced with CA and possibly a laser bond.

I have noticed that is was common for period ships with outside channels to have braces between the channels and the hull. I have not been able to find any evidence of any braces on old photos of the Constitution. One way of achieving this on the Connie, without braces, is to lay a thin piece of stretched sprue along the join of the channel to hull and melt it in with solvent.

Just thinking it through! Dale, she is really shaping up nicely.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:52 PM

I got all the spardeck guns tied and glued in place. Working on cannon ball racks now.

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:49 PM

I wish it was a chain on the Connie, would be much easier to do.  I was thinking about stroping the deadeye with blackened copper wire and seeing how that looks. I am going to pin the channels. I am going to mark out the glue line and clean the paint off the hull. 

  • Member since
    February, 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 6:52 PM

  Dale ,  The main thing I do with channels ( I have heard them called shroud tables) is to make sure you have a plastic to plastic glue joint, that means NO paint. I glue them on before I paint with AC. ( or CA) 

   I wonder if you used a very thin copper wire to wrap the bottom deadeye & drill the channel & glue the deadeye copper into the channel. Then use a piece of flat brass for your chain. You could stiffen small chain with CA & use it, if it was a chain that was used. The deadeye copper wire could come slightly below the channel for strength & be hidden by the chain. These are just thoughts as I have never done it this way. 

  When I did it , it was on a wood model.

  • Member since
    May, 2006
  • From: Irmo, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 2:33 PM

LIVIT

I have decided to yet again upgrade my build from the OOB stuff. As I previously mentioned, I was concerned about the strength of the belaying pins. I am replacing all mine with some AM pins from model expo. I might have to replace the pin rails too, which is no problem, I already have some plastic strips I had purchased for my cannon ball racks. They are just a bit thicker than the OOB rails.

I also decided to do more realistic shrouds, ratlines, deadeyes and chain board. Not sure if chain board is the right term here, what I am referring to is the board the shroud lines bottom deadeye attach too. My question here is, did the Constitution actually use chain from the base of this board to the hull ?

Sounds ambitious Dale. I may catch up to you yet, if I can get started. It seems that my start date will be moved back several months because it looks like we will be moving! At this time I am cleaning up extensive flash on the hull.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, February 18, 2018 8:42 PM

Thanks, you sure are helping me learn correct terminology.  I can see the need to pin the channels in then too. That would really be a mess if they came loose. I might just make new channels out of a bit thicker stock plastic strip. I will have to brainstorm on how to make a good example of those iron bars.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, February 18, 2018 7:59 PM

They are called channels, which seems to be a conjunction of chain and wale.

On Constitution they look like iron bars with a fitting on the top to connect to the deadeye strop, and a flange on the bottom to be bolted to the hull.

Because the shroud and the bar at an angle, the force on the channel is all compression into the hull. 

On a model, unless you really modify the “chains” it’s all on the channel to hull connection. Granted it’s nothing like the force of a set of sails, but having those things pop off is a disappointment.

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, February 18, 2018 7:09 PM

Got to visit with Gene1 and his lovely wife. Gene's builds are even more impressive up close. I did learn some things. It was hard not to drool on any of his ship or plane models. Looking forward to our next visit. 

I have decided to yet again upgrade my build from the OOB stuff. As I previously mentioned, I was concerned about the strength of the belaying pins. I am replacing all mine with some AM pins from model expo. I might have to replace the pin rails too, which is no problem, I already have some plastic strips I had purchased for my cannon ball racks. They are just a bit thicker than the OOB rails.

I also decided to do more realistic shrouds, ratlines, deadeyes and chain board. Not sure if chain board is the right term here, what I am referring to is the board the shroud lines bottom deadeye attach too. My question here is, did the Constitution actually use chain from the base of this board to the hull ?

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