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Reference Material for Cutty Sark?

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  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Reference Material for Cutty Sark?
Posted by David_K on Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:51 PM

Hi All-

I was wondering if anyone could provide advice on books/materials for guidance on building a Cutty Sark model?  Thinking about starting the big Revell 1/96, but I'd like to find some good pics, deck detail, and other reference to help me with some planning.

I was able to find precious few build logs here, but it's a shame that so many hosted photos are no longer available.

Anyway, thanks for any input :)

EDIT:  Here's a link to the WIP I've just started for my build of the Cutty Sark...thought it might be nice to have these threads connected.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/177929.aspx

 

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Recently Finished:  Imai Catalan Ship, Heller Soleil Royal

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    February, 2006
  • From: Boston
Posted by Wilbur Wright on Saturday, January 06, 2018 5:15 PM

The Cutty Sark website might be the best place to start.  They use to sell 3 blueprint sheets of the ship. Rigging, general plan and another one and quite inexpensive as well.  Those 3 plans must still be available, I would think.

  I started this model and got it to the stage of attaching the masts.  Then I boxed it up for safe keeping before I glued the masts. I did this because I don't have a display case and don't want to rig it before I have one.  This model definitely a long term model.

The Revell bowsprit is very flexible and may need to be redone with some other material or re-inforced to take the torque of the rigging. Something to remember

Have fun with it.  There are many great photos of the ship all over the web.

 

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, January 07, 2018 12:24 AM

Dave,

Before I had any skills I built her and posted most of my progress here on FineScale. I think Rob Wiederrich would be the go to guy for questions about the build as he's built several. He helped me out immensly when I was building mine. A true, generous gentleman as are many on this forum.

My build was a mess - now that I look at it from a few years down the road - but I'm still happy I spent the time trying to learn a few things. I did NOT do the rigging of the stays/deadeyes as you did in several of your builds - I just used the plastic kit parts. Oh well, I'll give it a go when I get to another sailing ship model that's at least 1/150 or larger.

Here are a few pictures I scrambled to find in several of my external HD's that I've used for storage over the years. The first bunch are in no particular order and the last three are of the completed kit as she sits in my living room.

Like I said, PM Rob ... I'll bet he can point you in several helpful directions.

 

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, January 07, 2018 4:10 AM

I agree with mike . rob wiederrich would be a great place to start , very knowledgeable man .

 mike your like most of us , our own worst critic , look's great to me mate .

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, January 07, 2018 10:05 AM

Thanks, everyone!

I'll see if I can order the Campbell CS plan sheets from Greenwich, should be a big help.

I'm still planning it out now, but some deviations from OOB include a wooden deck from scaledecks.com, blocks and line from Syren, metal eyebolts, and possibly replacing some mast parts with wood (the bowsprit seems to be the most problematic by all accounts).

There's really no question that Rob is the authority on models based off of Revell's Cutty Sark...I've seen some of his builds in person, and I can tell you they are among the finest!  Mind-blowing detail.

One of the aspects that I'm especially curious about is how/where to attach lower deadeyes...not using the kit plastic pieces, so I'll need to figure out where on the bulwarks I can attach them....there are no channels or chainplates that I can see, it looks like they just sit on the inside of the bulwark or pinrail somehow...this is a much more recent era of ship than I'm accustomed to modeling, so I've got to become more familiar with how a clipper is set up.

Thanks again!

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Recently Finished:  Imai Catalan Ship, Heller Soleil Royal

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, January 07, 2018 10:38 AM

Wilbur Wright

The Cutty Sark website might be the best place to start.  They use to sell 3 blueprint sheets of the ship. Rigging, general plan and another one and quite inexpensive as well.  Those 3 plans must still be available, I would think.

  I started this model and got it to the stage of attaching the masts.  Then I boxed it up for safe keeping before I glued the masts. I did this because I don't have a display case and don't want to rig it before I have one.  This model definetely a long term model.

The Revell bowsprit is very flexible and may need to be redone with some other material or re-inforced to take the torque of the rigging. Something to remember

Have fun with it.  There are many great photos of the ship all over the web.

 

 

Sail plan is the third. They are on the Shop site for 15 "pounds" the lot. There's some question as to whether or not they are scale, since they are being sold mail order from a museum store. But that's an easy fix at a good repro/ blueprint shop.

They are those wonderful Campbell drawings, quite artful and full of thumbnail details.

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, January 07, 2018 10:50 AM

A google image search is a good place to look.  Type in cutty sark ship.  The word ship is helpful to eliminate whiskey ads, though some will show up anyway.  But, lots and lots of pictures of the ship, and of models of the ship.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, January 07, 2018 10:53 AM

Having an iron frame changes a lot of things. You can see here that there's a rod which runs down from the lower deadeye to a frame member. It wouldn't be long before this whole arrangement was replaced on newer ships with a turnbuckle and steel wire stays.

I know you live on the West Coast like me, and the $$$ sucks right now, but if you can go it's the trip of a lifetime, plus there's Victory and so on nearby.

 

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, January 07, 2018 12:07 PM

Dave,

I just sent you a PM with some scans from my set of plans. I doubt they'll be of much help in your query as to how the deadeyes were attached but it will give you some idea as to where. At least my feable brain couldn't figure out how by looking at the three sheets of plans just now. It's probably on the plans somewhere but the set I received was so poorly copied that trying to read the information is a real chore.

The last of the three links doesn't seem to have turned "hot". just highlight it, right click, and open.

 

 

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    December, 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Sunday, January 07, 2018 4:38 PM

I hope I can provide some images of one of my builds.

Rob

  • Member since
    December, 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Sunday, January 07, 2018 4:44 PM

I'll add another of the finished model/diorama.

I can add images as we go during your build if you like.

 

Rob

  • Member since
    December, 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Sunday, January 07, 2018 5:01 PM

Another of another model with short sails..(Note) this version uses the formed dead eyes and lanyards.

Rob

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, January 07, 2018 5:40 PM

Wow.

Thanks everyone for such a great response with information and photos! 

With this much support, I should have little trouble moving in the right direction :)

I'd love to make a trip to see the Cutty Sark, and Victory!  I still need to make the pilgrimage to the our East Coast and see some of the stuff here....it's on my bucket list.

Rob, I wonder if I'll need to take the ferry over sometime and take some notes from a couple of your models?  lol

For now, I'm just going through the kit, and the instructions, and filling out a notebook with ideas for paint scheme, block and line specs, etc....once the George Campbell plans arrive, I'll be able to compare those with the Revell sheets and see how much of it jives together...

Since I expect to be inquiring from you all as I embark on this project, it's probably a good idea to start a WIP thread once I get some progress made.  I'm keeping my photos on Flickr now, hopefully they will still allow site hosting.

Thanks again, my friends!

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Recently Finished:  Imai Catalan Ship, Heller Soleil Royal

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    December, 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Sunday, January 07, 2018 8:05 PM

Dave, one thing you may need to figure out first off is at what stage of modification will you be modeling your CS.  The aft access to the aft cabin on the poop was added by the Portugues and was not part of the original Cutty design..nor are the forward hatch additions as seen on some models.

I suggest you aquire a copy of Harold Underhill's magnificent book *Masting and Rigging the clipper ship and the Ocean carrier*..It is a must for rigging clippers.

Also, get *The Cutty Sark and the Thermopylae Era of Sail* by Cryril Hume & Malcolm Armstrong.  Lots of images.

One thing I found in my study is that the Cutty can be replicated in many fasions so dating her needs to be decided upon...nothing worse is when a modeler *Mixes* modifications that were not present together.

Good luck.

Rob

 

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, January 07, 2018 9:25 PM

Dave,

Two more scanned pages - from Underhill's tomb this time. They're on their way to you via another PM.

 

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    July, 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Sunday, January 07, 2018 11:02 PM

Dave,

I have been acquiring materials for my Cutty Sark build now for a few years. I cannot add much to the discussion because all of it has been great. You might want to check out Radek's evilBay store "hismodels". He has a PE set for the stern name and scroll work and flags here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Revell-Cutty-Sark-set-of-Flags-Decoration-and-Draft-scales-for-model-1-96/222758744834?epid=814744916&hash=item33dd74b302:g:dWsAAOSw-kdXyFsQ

He also has a complete block set and uses the Campbell rigging plans to show locations of blocks etc...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Revell-Cutty-Sark-Thermopylae-708-pcs-CNC-wood-blocks-for-model-1-96/222694958501?epid=786374796&hash=item33d9a765a5:g:ntwAAOSw3ZRY-TiY

Hope this helps a bit,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, January 07, 2018 11:25 PM

Her blocks are pear wood, a marvelous elliptical shape.

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Monday, January 08, 2018 10:42 AM

Dave & Steve,

Interestingly if you scroll along the images of Radiek's eBay listing for blocks to fit the CS you'll notice he has superimposed some color coding for his blocks over one page of the actual Campbell plans. 

Oops, sorry. I now see that you've already mentioned that Embarrassed.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: DeLand, FL
Posted by jlsimmon1 on Monday, January 08, 2018 11:10 AM

Do a search on Amazon and Ebay for the book The Cutty Sark by C. Nepean Longridge.  It includes a set of plans by Harold Underhill.  The book was written in 1933 and includes pictures taken after she had been restored and was in Falmouth Harbor.  Longridge built from scratch the model that was in and may still be in the Science Museum, South Kensington.  The fittings have been described as crude compared to today's fittings, but remember everything had to built by hand, not machine.  It does have a lot of first hand information on the ship and good tips.

 

Jim

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Monday, January 08, 2018 5:42 PM

This thread is a great example of this forum's purpose!

So much great info, I hope having all this stuff gathered will serve builders of the Cutty Sark for a long time! :) Thanks to everyone for their contributions....

I actually contacted Revell to get a new set of the decals for this kit, figuring mine is from decades ago and the decals are likely to crumble into flakes if wetted...but I didn't realize there were PE frets available for the scrollwork. I'll certainly buy that set.

I'll also pick up the books mentioned previously, to help me get an idea of how things should go...the Campbell plans are on the way.

It's neat that a full block set is available, but I'll likely get mine from Syren, along with my line, in small batches along the way (C. Passaro makes some really, really nice blocks)...the deadeyes and eyebolts will come from Model Expo (cheap and good quality walnut, unlike their blocks, which I don't care for)....

As far as being certain of the *era*...well...

Some of you know me well enough to understand that having anachronistic elements doesn't trouble me much.  At the risk of becoming shunned as a pariah among my peers, it shouldn't surprise many of you to know that I am more focused on what pleases me than what is accurate.  I'll go to the lengths I find reasonable to make sure my kit looks the way I like it, but I doubt I'll go to major lengths to keep everything authentic (no big alterations or "corrections" are expected)...

Nevertheless, I hope I can count on the same support and encouragement from you all, despite my lack of authentic compulsion.

I'm very excited to tackle the challenge of this kit, after a short hiatus from ship modeling.

Cheers!

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Recently Finished:  Imai Catalan Ship, Heller Soleil Royal

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    December, 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Tuesday, January 09, 2018 7:53 AM

Good move Dave.  If you are free from the encumberances of being a purist then you are also free to embrace (as you put it) building her as you personaly like her to look.  I'm no purist... but I can appreciate the effort to do the reasearch if one wishes to build along the lines of a particular time frame a vessel is being modeled, and with many clippers changes(some major and minor) were specific to the captains likes..ie...like so many changes in rigging design or deckhouse configuration and such.  I experienced this very issue with my Glory of the Seas, and Great Republic..not to mention the Ferriera(AKA Cutty Sark).

With the Revell Kit..she is represented as much as she was originally...so it appears any decision to modify her can be laid to rest.

Good luck and I will be following with great anticipation.

Rob

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 7:24 PM

David

   I built the Thermoplyae Years ago.From that I would suggest Getting the wood deck from Scaledeck or from Radek at HISmodels

. Radek also has all the blocks, sails photo etch name plates,and flags. I just got them and I'm saying they will help this kit alot.

Rod

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Plano (Dallas), Texas
Posted by mmthrax on Saturday, January 13, 2018 5:55 PM

This thread is a great example of this forum's purpose!

 

Hello Dave,  I will try to help too.  I just ran across a show on youtube.  It is a British show called Speed Machines.  This particular episode is entitled:  Cutty Sark and the Great Clippers.  There might be some info there you can use.  Saw it and thought of you and your project.  Cheers, Mark

Just keep picking away at it...

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Saturday, January 13, 2018 6:33 PM

Mark,

Since you mentioned it without a link I thought I'd post the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQls5w-8ycU

I'll watch it another time but I'm sure Dave appreciated your letting him know about this.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Plano (Dallas), Texas
Posted by mmthrax on Saturday, January 13, 2018 7:37 PM

Thanks Mike.  

Yeah I don't know how to do that.  Thanks for helping my help along.  Smile

That's what this forum is for.

Best regards, 

Mark

Just keep picking away at it...

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, January 14, 2018 9:15 AM

Thanks, everyone!

Rod, yes, I'm definitely going to use the wood deck, and the PE scrollwork, and AM blocks and line...

BTW, that Longridge book is SPENDY!  I'm keeping an eye out for a reasonably-priced copy

lol

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Recently Finished:  Imai Catalan Ship, Heller Soleil Royal

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, January 14, 2018 10:09 AM

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Saturday, January 20, 2018 1:31 PM

Mike-

I stand corrected...the links you provided show a much more reasonable price than I found with a quick search online.  10-20 bucks is no biggie, but I saw a couple for 50-60 bucks and that seemed a little steep. lol

It occurs to me that since I built my last model ship, we've added two diabolically michievous cats to our household...I will certainly need to come up with a means of protecting my model during the construction phase, or suffer the consequences!

Also, I'm thinking of building this model with set sails....something I've done only once before.  Based on pictures I've seen online of the Cutty Sark, it can be a glorious effect, or an eysore.  To achieve the former, I'll need to make sure I explore the best methods.  That will be my primary focus for skill development this time around...IF I go that way.

Anyway, I'm still gathering resource material and making plans.  Once I get to a point of actually progressing, I'll get a new WIP thread going.

Thanks, all!

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Recently Finished:  Imai Catalan Ship, Heller Soleil Royal

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 20, 2018 4:30 PM

It looks to be a two volume set and V2 seems hard to find. I'm not familiar with it, although I have his Victory book. That one came with plans, the Sark ones don't sound like they do except what's illustrated in the book. Probably worth it though.

If you haven't look up Bobby Burns' "Tam O' Shanter" for a vivid description of the origin of the name and the story behind the figurehead.

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, January 20, 2018 7:11 PM

david

I tried copying and pasting this but it wouldn't go .

on pete coleman's site , if you go to maurice's 74 gun ship , then to plain sailing , he goes into a hell of a lot detail on how to do sail's . from go to whoa so to speak , I used it on my soleil royal . hope this help's .

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