SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Akagi Question

455 views
14 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    November 2019
Akagi Question
Posted by MikeinAlabama on Friday, November 8, 2019 1:04 PM

Hello.  I am building the Hasegawa Akagi and want to represent the aircraft on deck as they were for the first wave on Pearl Harbor.  I know the types and number of the different aircraft, but which ones would have been in line to take off first (the bombers or the fighters)?  Thanks!

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Monday, November 11, 2019 5:36 PM

Fighters first, Dive-bombers second with Torpedo/bombers last.  The Type 97 Torpedo/bomber was the heavyest and under power of the three and needed as much deck to start its run than the Zero or Type 99 Dive-bomber.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, November 11, 2019 10:11 PM

Just an addition to the above. Akagi launched Torpedo and Level bombers in the first wave, along with fighters. Dive bombers were launched in the second wave, along with more fighters. The dive bombers were in the hangar deck until the first wave had launched. As stated above, the fighters launched first. I know that I have it in one of my books as to how many of each type was launched in each wave.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:45 PM

Having humiliated myself in confusion in a previous series of posts here, I'll add this.

The IJN followed Royal Navy doctrine in several ways. The design of their carriers were quite similar, initially very close to the converted battlecruisers of the RN and later convergent. As Launched, Akagi had two active hangar decks and a third smaller one for addition storage. Very much like Ark Royal, Illustrious class etc in the first instance.

Like the RN and unlike the USN, the IJN did not use the flight deck as storage of aircraft.

I don't know if more than 1/2 of one squadron section was on deck at a time, but I sort of doubt it. If it were me, I'd put eight Kate's on deck.

For comparison, the RN attack on Taranto, which was closely studied by Yamamoto; launched twelve Swordfish, then brought up the second dozen. 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 9:47 AM

GMorrison

Having humiliated myself in confusion in a previous series of posts here, I'll add this.

The IJN followed Royal Navy doctrine in several ways. The design of their carriers were quite similar, initially very close to the converted battlecruisers of the RN and later convergent. As Launched, Akagi had two active hangar decks and a third smaller one for addition storage. Very much like Ark Royal, Illustrious class etc in the first instance.

Like the RN and unlike the USN, the IJN did not use the flight deck as storage of aircraft.

I don't know if more than 1/2 of one squadron section was on deck at a time, but I sort of doubt it. If it were me, I'd put eight Kate's on deck.

For comparison, the RN attack on Taranto, which was closely studied by Yamamoto; launched twelve Swordfish, then brought up the second dozen. 

 

The deckloads were the strike waves. The Akagi and Kaga were large enough to have all of their larger air wing B5N squadrons and fighter elements for that wave on deck for launch. The same goes for Hiryu & Soryu, with their smaller bomber squadrons, or Zuikaku & Shōkaku with their larger air groups and flight decks. While the Pearl Harbor strike was inspired or at least influenced by the Taranto raid, the Japanese took it to a whole different level. Six carriers as opposed to one; dive, level, and torpedo bombers with large fighter contingent, as opposed to just torpedo bombers. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 9:50 AM

50% torpedo bombers, others a mixture of flare ships and bombers,

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 10:33 AM

MA,

This may be helpful

Akagi First wave,

9 Zeros

27 Kates
  12 torpedos
  15 bombs

Second wave

9 Zeros

18 Vals

The Zeros launched first because they had longer range, or so I've read.

If you do the Pearl attack you will need 4 extra sets of the Hasegawa plane sets for the first wave and 5 for the second.

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 11:25 AM

Which of the IJN carriers provided the CAP, or did they wait til the strike was launched to put up a CAP.

I know that we put up a CAP as the first thing off the decks, and pretty much the last thing down as darkness fell that early in the war.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 11:33 AM

goldhammer

Which of the IJN carriers provided the CAP, or did they wait til the strike was launched to put up a CAP...

 
All of them provided fighters to CAP.  That was their operational doctrine at the outset of the war.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 12:25 PM

the Baron

 

 
goldhammer

Which of the IJN carriers provided the CAP, or did they wait til the strike was launched to put up a CAP...

 

 

 
All of them provided fighters to CAP.  That was their operational doctrine at the outset of the war.
 

Only a minimal force of Zeroes was kept behind for CAP, something like 6 or so fighters per carrier. They were launched and recovered in sections of threes. A semi educated guess says that the first CAP elements were launched along with the first wave fighters. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 5:06 PM

modelcrazy

MA,

This may be helpful

Akagi First wave,

9 Zeros

27 Kates
  12 torpedos
  15 bombs

Second wave

9 Zeros

18 Vals

The Zeros launched first because they had longer range, or so I've read.

If you do the Pearl attack you will need 4 extra sets of the Hasegawa plane sets for the first wave and 5 for the second.

 

Just wondering,those are the numbers for each strike,but did the Japanese have the entire strike force on the deck at one time ? Would all 36 planes be on deck at the same time ?

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 5:20 PM

I would tend to say yes, all the strike aircraft would be on deck.  Would take too long to bring them up only being able to use the aft elevator, get them off and formed up for the strike.  36 planes would be slightly less than 1/2 the total compliment of planes onboard.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 5:25 PM

Tojo72
Just wondering,those are the numbers for each strike,but did the Japanese have the entire strike force on the deck at one time ? Would all 36 planes be on deck at the same time ?

No, just the Akagi and the waves were split.

Each carier had it's own strike numbers and mixes. The first wave was loaded in the hanger and brought up to the deck and waited for the go signal from the scout planes. The second wave was loaded and brought up after the first wave was away.

The Kido Butai launched 40 Kates, 48 Vals and 41 Zeros for the first wave.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 5:58 PM

modelcrazy

 

 
Tojo72
Just wondering,those are the numbers for each strike,but did the Japanese have the entire strike force on the deck at one time ? Would all 36 planes be on deck at the same time ?

 

No, just the Akagi and the waves were split.

Each carier had it's own strike numbers and mixes. The first wave was loaded in the hanger and brought up to the deck and waited for the go signal from the scout planes. The second wave was loaded and brought up after the first wave was away.

The Kido Butai launched 40 Kates, 48 Vals and 41 Zeros for the first wave.

 

And just to break that down a bit more for both waves, and correct the first wave numbers. The number of bombers used as torpedo planes was limited by the number of modified torpedoes available- 40. Those were split up amongst the 1st and 2nd Carrier Divisions, who had the most experienced air groups.

 

1st wave:

Akagi:15 B5N horizontal bombers, 800kg bombs, 12 B5N torpedo bombers, 9 A6M fighters 

Kaga: 15 B5N horizontal bombers, 800 kg bombs, minus one abort, 12 B5N torpedo bombers, 9 A6M fighters

Soryu: 10 B5N horizontal bombers, 800 kg bombs, 8 B5N torpedo bombers, 9 A6M fighters 

Hiryu: 10 B5N horizontal bombers, 800 kg bombs, 8 B5N torpedo bombers, 6 A6M fighters

Shokaku: 27 D3A dive bombers, minus two abort, 6 A6M fighters, minus one abort

Zuikaku: 27 D3A dive bombers, minus 2 aborts, 6 A6M fighters 

2nd Wave:

Akagi: 18 D3A dive bombers, 9 A6M fighters

Kaga: 27 D3A dive bombers, 9 A6M fighters

Soryu: 18 D3A dive bombers, 1 abort, 9 A6M fighters

Hiryu: 18 D3A dive bombers, 1 abort, 9 A6M fighters, 1 abort

Shokaku: 27 B5N horizontal bombers, 250 kg or multiple 60kg bombs

Zuikaku: 27 B5N horizontal bombers, 250 kg or multiple 60 kg bombs

39 A6M were assigned to CAP duties over the strike force ships

This is from the book Attack On Pearl Harbor by Bert Kinzey of Detail and Scale fame.

Compare these numbers to those launched at Midway on the first strike: 36 B5N level bombers, 18 each from Hiryu and Soryu; 36 D3A dive bombers, 18 each from Akagi and Kaga; 36 A6M fighters, 9 from each carrier. 108 In total launched, with one Hiryu B5N abort.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 6:12 PM

The IJN aircraft site, j-aircraft.com,  has a very complete description of the aircraft launched by each of the Pearl Harbor carriers

http://www.j-aircraft.com/faq/pearl_harbor.htm

With discussions and arguments

First Wave 
1st Group 
Akagi 30 Kates  (maybe 27)
Kaga 27 Kates 
Soryu 18 Kates 
Hiryu 18 Kates
2nd Group 
Shokaku 27 Vals 
Zuikaku 27 Vals
3rd Group 
Akagi 9 Zeros 
Kaga 9 Zeros 
Soryu 9 Zeros 
Hiryu 6 Zeros 
Shokaku 6 Zeros 
Zuikaku 6 Zeros
 
2nd Wave 
1st Group 
Zuikaku 27 Kates 
Shokaku 27 Kates
2nd Group 
Soryu 18 Vals 
Hiryu 18 Vals 
Akagi 27 Vals 
Kaga 14 Vals
3rd Group 
Akagi 9 Zeros 
Kaga 9 Zeros 
Soryu 9 Zeros 
Hiryu 9 Zeros

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS

FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.