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who's the best

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  • Member since
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who's the best
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Saturday, May 16, 2020 12:53 PM

Looking for some thoughts on which manufacturer make the most historically correct WWII era ship kits?  Is there one best or does it vary by model subjet and then manufacturer?  How about top manufacturers 3 for best accuracy for ships?

Sorry if it takes awhile to respond......

 

 

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Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, May 16, 2020 1:12 PM

Right off the bat, the question depends on scale.

1/700 has far and away the widest selection of ships. A lot of them are resin, which can support extremely fine detail. In plastic I suggest Dragon, some of which are older Pitroad/ Skywave kits. Those can be good ones too. Fujimi.

In resin, Pacific Front hobbies have a number of companies in their catalogue, including Niko, H-P, Combrig. Iron Shipwrights are nice kits if you've got the skills.

 

Metric scales like 1/600 and 1/400 are the largest selection of French ships, a lot of British ships, other European types. Heller and Airfix plastic.

 

1/350 it's hard to beat Trumpeter or Tamiya. Academy has a lot of nice models, as does Revell Germany.

 

In larger scales, there's all kinds of quality around.

 

I always suggest looking at the scalemates site. A lot of kits are just reboxes of older kits, or kits from a different company so you need to use your judgement.

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, May 16, 2020 3:48 PM

Mrchntmarine
the most historically correct WWII era ship kits?

If you mean like the way you can pick and choose between Spitfire or PzKfz IV kits, there isn't one.  Zero.  None.

Ships are just too unique, even when built "to class"--those classes can be as few as two, but are typically under 25, and even at the same yard the one or two years spent on the first will change the next.

This wil scan harsh; that's not entirely my intent.  The better way to frame the qustion is, "I want to build [ship], what are my best options?"

Let's pick one.  IJN Yamato.
From memory (which may be fickle and faulty) she's available in--injection moulded plastic:
1/800
1/720
1/700 (I think three kits)
1/600 (maybe)
1/500 (nitto, maybe)
1/350 (either 3 or 4 kits, Tamiya has an old version and a new version)
1/200 (3 different kits, IIRC, one very old)

Pretty much there's AM for the 1/700 and 1/350 and 1/200 kits, if kit specific.  And, it makes a big difference if you want the 1941 appearance or the 1943, or the 1945.  Aftermarket for Yamato can set you back far in excess of the kit price, too.

Tamiya's 1/350 DD-445 Fletcher is pretty good right out of the box, for 1943.  For 1945, less so.  Tumpy's DD-537 The Sullivans is ok, there are some wobbly details as the kit cannot quite decide if it's 1943 fit or 1945 fit (and the color callouts are largely Impressionist).  The England kit is actually much better, if an entirey diffferent ship, and type, and class.

Until fairly recently, if you wanted CL-52 USS Juneau (which made the Sullivan brothers famous) your only choice was 1/700, or very spendy resin.  The various CL(AA) sister ships would require differing levels of surgery.

  • Member since
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Posted by Mrchntmarine on Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:46 PM

tks bill and capnmac - guessing what im after is to get some ideas of a good kit, pretty correct and that i may  get some pe for.  i didnt want to get something thats grossly bonkers but not needing a museum correct piece either.  having not spent too much time on ships didnt know if 1 manufacturer was "better" than another.  Prefer US for my 1st one - cruiser / battle cruiser.  I have a tamiya uss alaska cb-1, but its 1/350 - too big for now.  so im thinking maybe a 1/700. trying to figure where to turn.  

PS - i think it would be interesting to have an earlier version / edition - say, even one that may have been late 30's, if thats out there, then re-fitted for WWII....

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Posted by Mrchntmarine on Saturday, May 16, 2020 10:07 PM

CapnMac82

 

Pretty much there's AM for the 1/700 and 1/350 and 1/200 kits, 

what AM ? A model???  tks!

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Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, May 17, 2020 10:26 AM

Right off the top of my heaad, the 1/700 Dragon USS Arizona is a good one. So is the Trumpeter 1/700 USS San Francisco.

I've built some 1/700 aircraft carriers, but the planes are kind of insanely small and hard to put decals on.

AM- "After market", PE, resin upgrades, metal gun barrels, wood decks etc., if I may pardnin' yer scrambled eggs, Adm'ral.

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

  • Member since
    October 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Sunday, May 17, 2020 10:35 AM

GMorrison

Right off the top of my heaad, the 1/700 Dragon USS Arizona is a good one. So is the Trumpeter 1/700 USS San Francisco.

Tks Bill. Im going to look around some more today.  Maybe some others will chime in with some more ideas on some good accurate kits that i may get some pe for, maybe a wooden deck if appropriote.  I found some pics of ships last night - Omaha class - early 20's - laid down, that looked pretty neat...

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Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, May 17, 2020 11:02 AM

You have excellent taste, my friend. As built, they are really something with those enormous masts.

A quick search finds a resin Omaha in 1/700 from Niko. I'm building a 1/700 Atlanta class model from Niko, which I think is an outstanding kit.

The Omaha kit however is labeled 1942. Wartime uprades seem to primarily be the AA fit.

The usual progression from 1.1 in machine guns, to 3" guns, to 20mm and 40mm guns.

Good early photos:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/004/04004.htm

1942 upgrades of Detroit, circa 1942. Mare island dockside photos are always great to work from.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/008/04008.htm

Be aware of course you'll spend $ 75, open the box and find a waterline hull 9" long and 3/4" wide...can be a little shocking.

 

Following with interest,

 

Bill

 

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

  • Member since
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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, May 17, 2020 12:38 PM

Niko kits are nice and would be recommended, but not for a ship modeling noob.  Most parts are molded on wafer thin carriers.  Removing sizable superstructure parts is fraught with maintaining squareness.  Small parts: guns, davits,  masts, may be little more that wire-size parts cast flat.   Resin ship modeling requires a different mind set than injected plastic

My recommended model for introduction to ship modeling is the Tamiya Fletcher in1:350. Master that then look toward a smaller plastic kit in 1:700.   Then branch to battleships or resin

  • Member since
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  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, May 17, 2020 1:52 PM

Mrchntmarine
what AM ?

Sorry, AM = After Market, the full range of goodies, in resin, PE, 3D printing, wood decks, etc.

 

Given what you are looking for, let me suggest a 1/350 destroyer.  Tamiya's Fletcher is quite good.
For pre-war (barely) Dragon has a nice Benson.

Those will build OOB (out of box), both can be improved with simple PE.  Both can be finished in simple paint schemes.  Prety much the masts are self-supporting and need no "rigging."  Not a huge number of "bits" to have to weather through (a battle cruiser can have 30-40 teenty-tiny anti-aircraft guns, which can become very tedious; a carrier can have 60).

 

I wish Tamiya was ou issue their Hammond in 1/350, the 1/700 is good, if teeny, and the wolrd deserves a Simms.  (We need a Sampson, to build Ward, too.)

  • Member since
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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, May 17, 2020 2:30 PM

CapnMac82

I wish Tamiya was ou issue their Hammond in 1/350, the 1/700 is good, if teeny, and the wolrd deserves a Simms.  (We need a Sampson, to build Ward, too.)

About 25 years ago (damn has it been that long), I was talking with a friend who worked for Tamiya USA.   I asked about a square bridge Fletcher to follow their round bridge offering.  He told me that due to poor initial sales, Mr Tamiya personally put the kaibosh on any future USN destroyer kits In 350 scale. 

Of course, a half dozen years ago Tamiya at a convention was asking what kits would you like to see from us.  I asked fo a four-piper and laid out my arguments on the back of the survey sheet:  1). It was in the run up to the centennial of WWI.  2).  Interwar there were several unique mods including mine sweepers, mine layers, seaplane tenders, etc.  During the war there were more mods. 3). The Ward at Pearl Harbor (didn't work out well for the Japanese).  4).  The USS Pope was captured intact in the Philippines and pressed into service with then IJN (with some unique mods).   I concluded that producing a four-piper would be a license to print money.   I still feel that way

EDIT: Add lend/lease to that list somewhere

  • Member since
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Posted by Mrchntmarine on Sunday, May 17, 2020 7:17 PM
ok. tks all! its getting a little late and im hungry and im gonna surprise the wife w/ the dog show on tv for some brownie points. Gonna do some more looking tomorrow. appreciate all the feedback.

Sorry if it takes awhile to respond......

 

 

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Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, May 17, 2020 8:54 PM

Ed, have you built Tam's Kagero. That was a nice kit. I remember reading somewhere that all 17 (?) ships in the class went to Midway.

It had a nice detail. The true stem of the ship was molded on both sides- one side a half hull and the other about a 1/2" of the bow. There was a seam that was easy to deal with.

I have the square bridge Trumpeter Fletcher for a build of USS Morrison. I've heard that it's worth getting both to pick the best of both worlds.

Some day.

 

Bill

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Monday, May 18, 2020 5:51 AM

GMorrison

Ed, have you built Tam's Kagero. That was a nice kit. I remember reading somewhere that all 17 (?) ships in the class went to Midway.

...

I have the square bridge Trumpeter Fletcher for a build of USS Morrison. I've heard that it's worth getting both to pick the best of both worlds  

 

Not built it, but it may be in the stash. Picked up several Tamiya IJN destroyers at a Squardon warehouse scratch & dent sale (Eaglequest or Scalefest) at pennies on the dollar. 

Trumpeters Sullivan's, you need to discard all the armament.  Black Cats 3D printed stuff is so much better.    You also need to discard the stacks.   I've cast copies of the YMW ones that have been drilled out and corrected.  The also have better intake grills.   There May also be some 3D ones. You also need to do something about the raised concrete sidewalk on the decks that is supposed to replicate non-skid matting
  • Member since
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  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Monday, May 18, 2020 7:40 AM

GMorrison

Ed, have you built Tam's Kagero. That was a nice kit. I remember reading somewhere that all 17 (?) ships in the class went to Midway.

 

 

 

I was intrigued by your mention of the Kagero Class and was moved to do more research,they were really 1st class vessels and served well.

There were 19 ships in the class,it looks like at least one in the class didn't make Midway Natsushio was sunk 2/9/42 by S-37

It seems a lot of them escorted the invasion force in addition to the carrier escorts.

Only one survived the war,Yukikaze,it was transferred to the Chinese navy

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Monday, May 18, 2020 9:31 AM

Mrchntmarine,

What are you leaning toward, DD, DE, CL, CA, BB, CVE, CV? What nation, what scale? This would help answer your question as all these knowledgeable guys have said, in a nutshell, each class or scale has one sometimes two better manufacturers.

  • Member since
    October 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Monday, May 18, 2020 11:56 AM

modelcrazy

Mrchntmarine,

What are you leaning toward, DD, DE, CL, CA, BB, CVE, CV? What nation, what scale? This would help answer your question as all these knowledgeable guys have said, in a nutshell, each class or scale has one sometimes two better manufacturers.

 

So, im still looking around but from above......   Any ideas?  Tks!

 

tks bill and capnmac - guessing what im after is to get some ideas of a good kit, pretty correct and that i may  get some pe for.  i didnt want to get something thats grossly bonkers but not needing a museum correct piece either.  having not spent too much time on ships didnt know if 1 manufacturer was "better" than another.  Prefer US for my 1st one - cruiser / battle cruiser.  I have a tamiya uss alaska cb-1, but its 1/350 - too big for now.  so im thinking maybe a 1/700. trying to figure where to turn.  

PS - i think it would be interesting to have an earlier version / edition - say, even one that may have been late 30's, if thats out there, then re-fitted for WWII....

 
 

Sorry if it takes awhile to respond......

 

 

I don't get notifications....

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 18, 2020 12:20 PM

The USS San Francisco in either 1/350 or 1/700 from Trumpeter is pretty straightforward if you are fixed on a cruiser. And it would lend itself well to your two-era scenario.

She was launched in 1933 and decommissioned in 1946. Crying

A very good looking class of ships.

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Monday, May 18, 2020 12:20 PM

Oh!

     Gotta tell you. The 1/350 Fletcher and the same scale Butler were so nice to build. They were clean out of the box and didn't tax my skills with the P.E. I used on both. As a matter of fact, the only problem I had with the Butler was her final color.

     I now wish I had painted her Haze grey with Deck Blue decks. Painting her navy sea blue with the deck blue decks made her virtually disappear on the desk. And now, you need a flashlight and a magnifier to see the details.

    I would, for cruisers, recommend the Indianapolis from Trumpeter. Beautiful out of the box. I stopped worrying about the accuracy issues because that started taking the fun out of the builds!

       I actually got criticised for building the North Carolina OOB. Bought the parts to correct her, and got a hair. Called the North Carolina Museum and asked them which kit they sold in the gift shop. They told me that right out of the Trumpeter box is the way she was then. Nuff said. Money spent for stuff I didn't need ! So be careful here.

 

  • Member since
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Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 18, 2020 12:22 PM

By Butler, he means DE-635  USS England. Great little model.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

  • Member since
    October 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Monday, May 18, 2020 1:38 PM

GMorrison

In resin, Pacific Front hobbies have a number...... 

Is that the same as freetime hobbies:https://freetimehobbies.com/ship/

Sorry if it takes awhile to respond......

 

 

I don't get notifications....

  • Member since
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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Monday, May 18, 2020 1:56 PM

Mrchntmarine

                  GMorrison

In resin, Pacific Front hobbies have a number...... 

Is that the same as freetime hobbies:https://freetimehobbies.com/ship/

 

 
Yes, Morrison is still living in the last century ;P
 
Moving on to the 21st century, Black Cat Models of France has just announced a new 1:350 scale Cannon-class DE.   It will be available in four flavors,  basic Cannon, late-war AA mods, French, and the USS Slater museum ship.
 
These are 3D printed masters cleaned up and made into resin molds.   With 3D printed armament and PE.    They look to be very nice.   I need to get in line for one of these.   Black Cat's other 350 scale offerings are EXTREMELY nice
 
 
 
 
 
  • Member since
    October 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Monday, May 18, 2020 3:26 PM

A lot of good suggestions and tips - thanks all!  So i decided to get a couple, go figure, right?  I did not want to mess with a smaller 1/700, but thats what a started with when i did the Heavy Cruiser Furutaka - so i got two - USS Quincy and USS Baltimore.  Because i couldnt make up my mind I also got 2 1/350 - USS Indianapolis and USS San Francisco.  

 

So far, quite an interesting process to read a bit and see how these different ship classifications were dictated by Treaties, etc..  Never realized that.  

I picked up a set of PE and a wooden deck for the Baltimore.  The Indianapolis if I remember correctly, comes w/ some PE.

 

https://freetimehobbies.com/1-700-trumpeter-uss-baltimore-ca-68-heavy-cruiser-1944/

https://www.hobbylinc.com/trumpeter-uss-san-francisco-ca38-heavy-cruiser-1944-plastic-model-military-ship-1:350-scale-05310

https://www.hobbylinc.com/trumpeter-uss-quincy-ca39-new-orleans-class-heavy-cruiser-plastic-model-kit-1:700-scale-5748

https://www.hobbylinc.com/trumpeter-uss-indianapolis-ca-35-cruiser-1945-plastic-model-military-ship-1:350-scale-5326

 

now to do some more reading!

Sorry if it takes awhile to respond......

 

 

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  • Member since
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  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 8:31 AM

Yeah, we also learned pretty quickly NOT to put our planes in the mddle of the ship because of fire hazzard. Stick'em on the back.

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