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Building the British Man of War

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  • Member since
    March 2020
  • From: South Florida
Building the British Man of War
Posted by Having-fun on Friday, June 19, 2020 2:38 PM

 

Well, it arrived today, it was not supposed to arrive until Monday, but Amazon was early. Here is what was in the box:

 

 

It is not as big as I was hoping for, but it will do. Now it is time for my first question: Most of you have recommended that the model should be primed, I am planning to order the Tamiya gray primer, should I prime everything in the box? not counting the sails, or should I restrict the primer to the larges parts, such as the decks and the hull?

Thanks

Joe

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, June 19, 2020 3:40 PM

An argument for both a pale gray or a black primer.

A dark primer could give depth to the wood finish, but the underwater bottom finish of ships in that ear was an off-white, which might not cover well over black.  Your pick.

Depending on how you want the deck(s) to look, those often can work best as sub-assemblies that you finish first, then install within the hull.

Generally, things like guns, masts, yards and the like want to be subassemblies.  (I never, ever, assemble yards to masts until the masts are stepped and at least partially rigged; the bare spare are much easier to work around; I also only build masts in their individual assemblies, too--that's me).

For significantly less than 2¢ I'd skip the vacuform sails.
For one, there's a "tradition" that warships are not displayed with sails.
For aother vac sails are a giant pain to work with, and have detail on only one side, and are often no where near the right size.

You will have to judge if you are hapy with the plastic shouds and ratlines.  I find them off-putting next to forestays out of thread--much in the way a biplane rigged half with monfilament and half with 1/32 wire would be offputting.

 

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • From: South Florida
Posted by Having-fun on Friday, June 19, 2020 3:52 PM

 

I may do the sails using either cloth of paper, I found a YouTube were they did the sails using bond paper, and they look pretty good. Will see when I get to such point. I was planning to do the rat lines by hand, but, after seen the rat lines for this ship, I wonder if it would be a problem due to their small size. That is something I will research when I get to such point.

 

Since most of the paint required by this ship are relative light, I may go with the pale grey primer.

 

Thanks for you advise.

Joe

 

  • Member since
    June 2020
Posted by enemeink-2.0 on Friday, June 19, 2020 8:53 PM

Another replacement you could look into for the sails would be vellum paper soaked with water down glue to help shape it and give it the sail cloth look. The plastic shouds will be too heavy. I used the stock ones with my Airfix Wasa and it was tedious to get the sails and rigging to not sag. Vellum is pretty light weight and you can even use it to furl the sails to the spars.

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • From: South Florida
Posted by Having-fun on Saturday, June 20, 2020 9:00 AM

enemeink-2.0

Another replacement you could look into for the sails would be vellum paper soaked with water down glue to help shape it and give it the sail cloth look. The plastic shouds will be too heavy. I used the stock ones with my Airfix Wasa and it was tedious to get the sails and rigging to not sag. Vellum is pretty light weight and you can even use it to furl the sails to the spars.

 

Thanks! I will look into this paper.

Joe

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, June 20, 2020 9:06 AM

I have seen folks leave the brown sections unprimed and unpainted, but finished with a semi-matt clear coat.  Looks a lot like oiled wood.  My understanding is that the unpainted wood was coated with some stuff that was basically fish oil as a preservative.

Plastic sails can be painted to look quite realistic.  European sails were not made of cotton- they were linen based, I believe.  Doped linen or a slightly lightened radar tan seems to work well.  For the reefing ropes hanging down, a darker tan works well, or you can grind them off and replace with threads.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Saturday, June 20, 2020 9:32 AM

Don, You give really good advice, Probably because you are a super model builder. I had my sails on my big Revell Spanish galleon all painted & primed with the really good decals on & decided not to use them.Trying to rig ( at my age ) just was too hard so I put on furled sails. 

              The sails & decals on my 1/100 Imai Galleon were just too pretty not to use so I did put them on. I think that this is the prettiest plastic sailing ship made. It was easy & fun & I even used the kit ratlines. I very seldom do that.

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • From: South Florida
Posted by Having-fun on Saturday, June 20, 2020 10:03 PM

 

 

The Man of War kit requires 12 different color paints, I saw a set of Vallejo paints that had 10 of the 12 colors needed, but, Amazon had run out of of them. I looked a Tamiya, but, as far I can tell they do not have kits of paints, they have to be purchased separately. When you consider that each Tamiya paint bottle average about $5, a set of 12 would be $60, I know that Tamiya are very good paints but the Vallejo set goes for $42 and they are also supposed to be very good.

I have some acrylics from Testors, and also some enamel of the same brand, I would prefer not to use the enamel due to the smell of the paint and its thinner, I prefer to go 100% with acrylics.

Since my kits are about to present me for father's day with an Iwata-Medea Eclipse HP CS air brush, I would like to get paints that lend themselves to be used in a air brush.

Can you guys give some opinions on what brand to buy?

Thanks

Joe

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, June 21, 2020 12:04 AM

Look, the model is a total piece of fiction. It's a kit based on no known ship; rather a sort of toy to make an impression.

Don't misunderstand; it looks good.

However, putting aside the sails and the instructions; an approach more friendly to the family finances would be to build it as you like it.

There have been models made of this and the similar Imai, Zvezda smaller ancients where a good dose of furniture stain with a rag on the bare brown plastic mimics the effect of the original church models, museum models, antiques from which these kits derive.

Find a model of the Airfix (correct transom) or Revell (super detailed) Golden Hind and that deserves a dip into replicating the "known" likenesses.

 

Bill

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, June 21, 2020 9:19 AM

Gene,

I love your Galleon!  Great work!

Bill

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, June 21, 2020 9:24 AM

The Revell "1/96" Spanish and English Galleons really are works of fiction. In fact, Revell did their research for these in the MGM Studios library, and based them heavily on depictions of galleons from movies.

That said, have you looked at the cloth sails, wood blocks and other detail sets sold by HiSModels?  Radek does great work and produces outstanding accessories for plastic sailing ship models.  www.HiSModels.com

Bill

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, June 21, 2020 7:41 PM

What 2 out of 3 Bills here are relating to is apt.

Revel Germany boxes this as a 1/96 English Man O'War; numerous places cite 1/82 as being closer.  This kist could be close to 1/64--hard to tell.

So, it's a model, not a scale model per se, this is not a named ship to be able to refer back to, to be held as an example.

Do you need two colors of green?  Dunno, your pick.  Do you need orange and red?  Again, your pick.

There's not exactly a wealth of info on "Elizabethian" ships and how they were painted--other than somewhat blurry artist's representations and tapestries of significant age.  There's even scholarly debate on whether the Queen's Ships even sported the "ER" logo on the sails (it would have been rather a nuisance to maintain at sea) or if it was merely an Artist's way of identifying the ships in paintings.

This is definitely not one to get hung up on in the details.  Build it so you enjoy building it.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, June 21, 2020 9:23 PM

BTW we do not think we are related. Morrison was my family name, but my grandfather got adopted and his last name changed from Morrison to Comstock.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • From: South Florida
Posted by Having-fun on Sunday, June 21, 2020 10:26 PM

 

Thanks guys! I guess that I will use some "artistic license" on this build. My present end for this build is to make it as good looking as I can and use the opportunity to learn new skills such as making ratlines and my own sails.

 

Joe

 

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • From: South Florida
Posted by Having-fun on Monday, June 22, 2020 7:48 AM

 

While waiting for some supplies needed to start the building of the model, I started to make a rat line, I finding that is not as difficult as I was afraid of, but, it is monotonous. I do have a question: It appear that the size of the tread I am using may be too small to make it look realistic:

 

What would the be proper diameter of the tread used for ratlines?

 

Thanks again.

 

Joe

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, June 22, 2020 9:14 AM

It's interesting that there might be a distant relation.  The original Clan Morrison originally broke into two branches, one of which died out by 1804.  All Morrisons do originate with the surviving clan.  But, we digress . . .

The two kits by Revell, the Spanish Galleon and the English Man o' War do make nice looking models.  Since this thread was published, I have been researching English galleons without much success. I would love to find a basis in history for this model.  It certainly does not represent the race-built galleon drawn by Matthew Baker, but documentation is sparse prior to that.  Still looking . . .

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 6:43 PM

I found a model in the London Science Museum of an English Galleon that looks similar to but not exactly like the Revell model.  Perhaps there is some factual basis for the Revell kits.

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:50 PM

warshipguy

I found a model in the London Science Museum of an English Galleon that looks similar to but not exactly like the Revell model.  Perhaps there is some factual basis for the Revell kits.

Bill

 

Bill,

This galleon reminds of the Revenge. Was there a named attached to this photo? I have the old Airfix kit that I’ve been doing research on so that I can someday build her. So, thanks for the picture!

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:57 PM

Joe,

Since this is a fictional ship, I would personally have fun with it. One of these days I’ll have to build mine, but as anyone here can tell you, I’m an exceedingly slow builder and I have a boatload of kits in queue already. I’m a believer in the philosophy that I can’t die until I read all the books in my library and build all the models in my stash. Therefore, I’m going to live a VERY long time.

I use Testor’s Ivory in a rattle can for my tallow hull color. It’s light and has a subtle hint of yellow to it, which to my eye, looks just about right. Just my two cents worth. I use rattle cans, paint brushes and airbrushes when modeling ships because of the diversity of part sizes. Also, Tamiya tape!

Congratulations on the Iwata airbrush for Father’s Day. If you take care and clean it every time you use it, you’ll end up using it for years to come.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, June 25, 2020 9:36 AM

Steve,

Unfortunately, there was no name for the ship in the photo.  I also have the Airfix Revenge which is based on illustrations by Matthew Baker.  The model could very well be of that ship.  There are many similiarities.

I posted the photo because it shows characteristics similar to the Revell model, which obviously is not of the Revenge.  Still, the stern castle on the Revell model is obviously too high, but not by much.  I only hope to lend the kit some credence.

And, it was my pleasure to post the photo.  I have never been able to do so before!

Bill

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, June 25, 2020 10:42 AM

I did a little searching for the description of Bill's ship there.

The model is 1/48 and was built by the modelmaker at the Science Museum London, as Bill referenced.

Their site states that this ship is also based on "draughts" by Matthew Baker of the ship "Elizabeth Jonas".

 

Elizabethan galleon ‘Elizabeth Jonas’, c 1600.

 

Rigged model (scale 1:48). This model is based on the draughts for the 'Elizabeth Jonas' from papers known as 'Fragments of Ancient Shipwrightry' by Matthew Baker, collected by Samuel Pepys and preserved at Cambridge These vessels are all galleon-built, with a forecastle set well back from the stem and a long projecting beak. The decoration was carried out principally by contrasting paintwork. With the exception of the figurehead, in the form of an elaborate dragon, there is little carving. The main armament of warships such as this consisted of brass and cast-iron muzzle-loading guns such as the culverin and demi-culverin, long range weapons firing 18 lb and 9 lb cannonballs respectively.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, June 25, 2020 10:56 AM

Bill,

Great job!  Thank you.

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Thursday, June 25, 2020 11:21 AM

 

Bill & Bill

  Nice work posting the Pic and providing the pertinent details.

          Jim.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, June 25, 2020 11:29 AM

So circling back on the OP. I suggest you paint the decorations in a way that suits your paint supply and budget.

For it's time this was a big ship. Strikes me as odd how the Museum propped it up.

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, June 25, 2020 1:32 PM

Jim,

Thanks!

Bill,

I had that very thought!  It certainly looks odd . . .  Anyway, it shows me that the Revell kit is not too far off. The stern castle's height simply appears exaggerated.

Bill 

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • From: South Florida
Posted by Having-fun on Thursday, June 25, 2020 10:24 PM

GMorrison

So circling back on the OP. I suggest you paint the decorations in a way that suits your paint supply and budget.

For it's time this was a big ship. Strikes me as odd how the Museum propped it up.

 

 

 

Thanks, I ordered 13 different colors of Tamiya paints, they closely resemble the colors recommended by the instructions, but I won't loose any sleep if the colors do not closely match what the instructions recommend.

 

I am planing to do the rat lines by hand, so I am practicing different ways to do them. Once I get to such point, I will be able to discuss which system I will use.

 

I am still waiting for some supplies ( The primer, paints, some fittings to adapt my compressor to my new airbrush, etc ) once a get everything together, they I will actually start building.

 

Thanks again

 

Joe

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, July 6, 2020 10:38 AM

Joe,

Have you made any progress?

Bill

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • From: South Florida
Posted by Having-fun on Monday, July 6, 2020 12:29 PM

Bill:

No, I haven't, with the exception of priming all the parts. I am still waiting for a hose for the compressor that it is taking its sweet time arriving, it is supposed to arrive on the 8th, I just hope it is the right hose.

What I have been doing is prepping the parts with masking tape so I will have them ready to start painting, if the hose is what I need, then I will be able to start painting and I will make a progress report.

Thanks for asking.

 

Joe

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Monday, July 6, 2020 12:55 PM

Hi Gene! OOPS! No Pun Intended !

      I like the looks of that. I built one for a friend that was afraid to get into it. It was that same kit! I thing I did discover was with the EARLY Imaii release, you could actually use real wood stains on the plastic and they would work.

    He had me do all the wood areas in Mahogany and Teak ship yard stains. Then the rest was painted with Winsor and Newton oils! The Sails were used as molds for Irish Linen sails stiffened with spray on thinned craft glue! Then painted with a wash of unbleached linen.

     The decks were planked-All of them with bleached teak Veneer! The Ratlines were replaced with real thread woven and tied, waxed and sewn. The Blocks and all tackle were items I bought from Bluejacket.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, July 6, 2020 1:31 PM

Joe,

It's my pleasure!  I am looking forward to seeing your work.

Bill

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