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Doolittle raid hornet 1/350

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  • Member since
    June 2006
Doolittle raid hornet 1/350
Posted by Tankluver on Saturday, August 29, 2020 8:55 PM

I am currently working on trumpeters 1/350 uss hornet doolittle raid. I have bith sets of an interactive for the us navy paints. What are going to be my primary paints for this? some paints translate over well form the directions and some of them are close but not exactly. also i notice that the deck isn't a wood color it's more of a gray blue. What would be the best color for this out of the ak set. Luckily i already have the paint masks for this kit too

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, August 29, 2020 9:39 PM

I can answer you in detail when I get home tomorrow. 
The deck is stained Weather Deck Blue 20B.

Thats a nice model.

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, August 29, 2020 10:30 PM

USS Hornet CV-8 wore MS-12 Modified for most of her short service life. Haze Gray, Ocean Gray, and Sea Blue were the colors used on all vertical surfaces.

https://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_12_modified.htm

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, August 30, 2020 6:45 AM

stikpusher

USS Hornet CV-8 wore MS-12 Modified for most of her short service life. Haze Gray, Ocean Gray, and Sea Blue were the colors used on all vertical surfaces.

https://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_12_modified.htm

 

The wooden deck was stained, IIRC Norfolk 251.   It's color value would be similar to 5-O Ocean Gray.   No major deck markings, just some alignment lines. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, August 30, 2020 10:49 AM

EdGrune

 

 
stikpusher

USS Hornet CV-8 wore MS-12 Modified for most of her short service life. Haze Gray, Ocean Gray, and Sea Blue were the colors used on all vertical surfaces.

https://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_12_modified.htm

 

 

 

The wooden deck was stained, IIRC Norfolk 251.   It's color value would be similar to 5-O Ocean Gray.   No major deck markings, just some alignment lines. 

 

Oh, well that's an easy repaint at this stage.

http://www.modelwarships.com/features/current/hornet-color/hornet-color.htm

This authors conclusion seems to be that the deck was 250-N at the time of her sinking (wood parts). metal parts 20-B. Color back in April? His conclusion seems to be the same, for lack of conflicting evidence.

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Monday, August 31, 2020 12:24 PM

From a couple of sources I have decided to go with 250-N for my April 1942 flight deck. I ordered Scale Colors USN Norfolk 250N Flight Deck Stain. For the hanger deck, the best I could come up with is Model Air 71.053 Dark Sea Gray; and white for the walls.

https://scalecolors.com/shop/

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Monday, August 31, 2020 1:46 PM
So, what is the difference between 250N and 251N? This document from the Norfolk ship yard throws a bit of light on the subject! "Low Visibility Flight Deck Stain (Formula 250N) and Low Visibility Flight Deck Marking Stain (Formula 251N) - Specifications for." http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7/1942DecemberFlightDeckStain.html

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, August 31, 2020 1:49 PM

So 251 is the lines etc.?

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Monday, August 31, 2020 1:57 PM
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, August 31, 2020 2:28 PM

Here is a related question. WWII era USN flight decks are constructed of wood and metal. X amount of planks, followed by a metal  frame with tie down cleats, repeat, from the forward end of the flight deck to the after end. Obviously the wood planking will be in ”Flight Deck Stain”. What color is the tie down cleat framing? Deck Blue? Can stain be used on the metal portions?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Monday, August 31, 2020 3:39 PM

will be paint not stain as stain is for prous materials like wood & concrete.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, August 31, 2020 4:59 PM

ddp59

will be paint not stain as stain is for prous materials like wood & concrete.

 

That makes sense. So then would the paint on the framing be Deck Blue? My semi educated wild a$$ guess says that...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Monday, August 31, 2020 5:55 PM

yes

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, August 31, 2020 6:00 PM

GMorrison

 

 
EdGrune

 

 
stikpusher

USS Hornet CV-8 wore MS-12 Modified for most of her short service life. Haze Gray, Ocean Gray, and Sea Blue were the colors used on all vertical surfaces.

https://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_12_modified.htm

 

 

 

The wooden deck was stained, IIRC Norfolk 251.   It's color value would be similar to 5-O Ocean Gray.   No major deck markings, just some alignment lines. 

 

 

 

Oh, well that's an easy repaint at this stage.

 

http://www.modelwarships.com/features/current/hornet-color/hornet-color.htm

This authors conclusion seems to be that the deck was 250-N at the time of her sinking (wood parts). metal parts 20-B. Color back in April? His conclusion seems to be the same, for lack of conflicting evidence.

 

Bill

 

Yes

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by Tankluver on Tuesday, September 1, 2020 9:19 PM

stikpusher

Here is a related question. WWII era USN flight decks are constructed of wood and metal. X amount of planks, followed by a metal  frame with tie down cleats, repeat, from the forward end of the flight deck to the after end. Obviously the wood planking will be in ”Flight Deck Stain”. What color is the tie down cleat framing? Deck Blue? Can stain be used on the metal portions?

 

I always wondered this as well. I've seen deck kits for the 1/350 carriers and always see them advertised as the wooden deck but when i look at the paint instructions it's the deck blue color. it always confused me And left me asking the question of would it be a wood color or is it stained? 

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by Tankluver on Tuesday, September 1, 2020 9:20 PM

So far what I've gathered from this is that I'm going to use AK Interactives Deck Blue for my flight deck. Then for the camouflage scheme I'm going to go with a sea blue and a haze gray. When looking down at the kit i was thinking of using a light grey for the top of the island and any exposed parts not covered by the deck blue. Thoughts on this?

All colors are from the AK Interactive sets.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:41 AM

It’s 5-O Ocean Gray with a disruptive pattern of 5-N Navy Blue on the lower hull below the flight deck. From the flight deck up and on the island its 5-H Haze Gray with a disruptive pattern of 5-O Ocean Gray.

 

 

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by Tankluver on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 7:31 AM

stikpusher

It’s 5-O Ocean Gray with a disruptive pattern of 5-N Navy Blue on the lower hull below the flight deck. From the flight deck up and on the island its 5-H Haze Gray with a disruptive pattern of 5-O Ocean Gray.

 

 

 

 

 

The Doolittle raid paint instructions for trumpeter are calling for the isalnd to be painted with the sea blue as well. That's a very nice photo there is that prior to departure? Not sure why the instructions would make that big of a mistake. Thank you for the photo And clarification !

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 7:58 AM

Go to the NAVSOURCE page on the Hornet

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/08.htm

There are multiple pix of the Hornet which show the island.  Granted, there  is a color one which shows the island marked in a darker gray.  If you look down on the hull you will see obvious blue waves (along and above the dock level).  Measure 12R is generally blue and Ocean Gray (5O) on the hull and Ocean Gray and Haze Gray (5H) on the superstructure.  On the Hornet, the separation line occurs just below the flight deck level.   

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 8:17 AM

Tankluver

 The Doolittle raid paint instructions for trumpeter are calling for the isalnd to be painted with the sea blue as well. That's a very nice photo there is that prior to departure? Not sure why the instructions would make that big of a mistake. Thank you for the photo And clarification !

 

If you do enough research on the Hornet, you will probably conclude that the Trumpeter paint instructions are not very accurate; but close enough to make a fine model.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by Tankluver on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:24 AM

Shipwreck

 

 
Tankluver

 The Doolittle raid paint instructions for trumpeter are calling for the isalnd to be painted with the sea blue as well. That's a very nice photo there is that prior to departure? Not sure why the instructions would make that big of a mistake. Thank you for the photo And clarification !

 

 

 

If you do enough research on the Hornet, you will probably conclude that the Trumpeter paint instructions are not very accurate; but close enough to make a fine model.

 

That is the conclusion i was coming to as well! Thanks for the information guys Ive been slowly diving into ship building coming from armor. I find that a lot of trumpeter kits don't give you a unit and time or place on there directions it's a little frustrating to be honest.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:20 PM

Trumpeter instructions- follow them for the build, do your own research for all colors.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 5:04 PM

Tankluver
paint instructions for trumpeter

Fromm all observations, the person responsible for trumpy's paint instructions involve a ouija board, and an excess of inhaled solvents.

USN was consistent in its use of Deck Blue (or the equivalent stain) through virtually all the Camoflauge Measures.  All horizontal deck surfaces exposed to view above wer so painted.  (Signals platforms would get linoleum for better traction, prewar those were chestnut, during ,they were painted blue.)

The N250 and 20N were nearly the same hue.  The metal decks hled the color pretty well; the wood decks would "wear" a bit.  after staining the revealed color was a charcoal to silver gray.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 5:09 PM

stikpusher
That makes sense. So then would the paint on the framing be Deck Blue? My semi educated wild a$$ guess says that.

That's a subtle detail that ight be worth chasing on 1/48 or 1/32 deck sections.

The tie-down strips and edge details probably ought to be a tad glossier to scan metallic versus the wooden planking.

For really subtle, the prewar carrier wooden decks were stained a reddish "mahogany" color.  Blue stain did not go down until December 1941.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:57 PM

CapnMac82

For really subtle, the prewar carrier wooden decks were stained a reddish "mahogany" color.  Blue stain did not go down until December 1941. 

They were mahogany indeed... Mahogony with Chrome Yellow markings 

 

But I think that the Flight Decks were stained blue before then. The switch was made to Blue Gray uppers on carrier based aircraft from overall Light Gray because they stood out from the blue decks and compromised the camo color. This is why the lower surfaces of folding wings visible from above were also painted in the Blue Gray.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 11:14 PM

I forget, is that CV-6?

The only modern USN aircraft with folding wings of any quantity before about April 1942 were the TBDs.

If you study the photos available of the Doolittle Raid, there were a group of F4F-4s up at the bow earlier in the attack sortie.

 

Bill

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, September 3, 2020 12:18 AM

GMorrison

I forget, is that CV-6?

The only modern USN aircraft with folding wings of any quantity before about April 1942 were the TBDs.

If you study the photos available of the Doolittle Raid, there were a group of F4F-4s up at the bow earlier in the attack sortie.

 

Bill

 

 

Yes, that’s The Big E, CV-6. Different shape to the second platform up than CV-5.

The other carrier based USN aircraft with folding wings was the SB2U. I believe than Ranger and Wasp had their VB and VS squadrons equipped with those until summer 1942.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, September 3, 2020 1:22 AM

Yes good on you, the Vindicator.

My late folks had a neighbor who was a Marine pilot of same.

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Thursday, September 3, 2020 11:26 AM

There is one photo of The Hornet with 5 F4F-4 Wildcats on the forward deck, just in case. However, there are other photos of Wildcats mixed in with the B-25s. Supposedly there were 25 more on the hanger deck.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, September 3, 2020 11:59 AM

There's an SBD in the mix as well, starboard side about halfway back. Remember at that time the Dauntless was used for CAP as well as scout/ bomber.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

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