Does anyone know?

The Wasa didn't even make it out of Stockholm Harbor. She capsized in a light breeze because the CG was too high. It wasn't the guns, which accounted for maybe 5% of the the ship's weight. The King kept adding decks during construction without any real modifications to the hull.

In 1628.

Bill

Big waves do pack a wallop.  I remember reading that one of our task forces got caught in a typhoon towards the end of the war.  One of the carriers buried her nose in a big wave.  When it sluffed off, the first 60 feet of her flight deck was bent back to the vertical.  The Captain was supposed to say it would make a good sail with the wind in the right quarter.

Our CG Cutter, Storis, would frequently roll 45 deg in the Bearing Sea. We hit a rogue wave head on while sailing our usual patrol area. I was on the mess deck playing solitare when BOOM, the cards all slid forward as well as me. After picking myself up off the mess table I looked through the porthole and saw green water. A split second later the GQ alarm, dong, dong, dong went off. My station was in the radio room behind the bridge and as I was entering it, I heard the bridge crew discussing the wave. We didn't lose anyone overboard thank God but it was quite a spooky situation. I'll never go back to the Bearing by choice.

Well, I capsized on a 24 foot sailboat once and was under it for a little while, no fun at all. 

Seeing green out of a bridge deck port hole would not be good.

Bill

Hi Goldhammer;

     That my friend would be the U.S.S.Hornet. there's a picture of that one in the U.S.S. Hornet Museum in Alameda.Whatta scary photo! Oh, I believe that was one of the bigger ships in"Taffy 3", I was wrong I guess, thanks guys. But, does anyone know why so many ships in Taffy Three were lost?

ModelCrazy:

        The Shell Orion -8-million Barrel,1,494' tanker caught a rouge wave up there. We were carrying the 8 Million at that time. So we rode low and heavy. Oh, the forward bulwarks at the bow were ripped off like cardboard! It sent us to an off loading port and then to the yards. Can you believe that four of the five decks in the house were dented inward about three foot and busted every window in the Passenger quarters.

     The yard in Liverpool had a new deckhouse ready in a week. In that case, Modular is good. The engineers figure the wave was about 80plus ft and probably packed about 2 million pounds (Tons?) of energy in it's hit! The fact is Salt water is actually heavier than Fresh and in that kind of situation no ones knows how it's going to work out. All you can do is pray! We were going slower because of the weather too, about ten Knots. We couldn't go slower in that weather because loaded, we wallowed badly in that kind of sea! The hit stopped us dead in the water for about four minutes before the screws got us up to speed again.

 What Class of Cutter was she? I am only familiar with the Treasury class(Hamilton and Taney) and photos of modern " High Endurance" types although I really don't know what they are called.

 Oh and a P.S., We discovered when we went to the offload facility we had no Anchors either! And a very dented, Below waterline Bulb. No leaks though.

Tanker-Builder, the Taffies consisted if escort carriers not fleet carriers like the Essex class carriers.

Sorry TB,  Taffy was all CVE's, DD's, and DE's.

Thank you, I amended my post.

Thank You, I amended my post!

Tanker-Builder

Hi Goldhammer;

     That my friend would be the U.S.S.Hornet. there's a picture of that one in the U.S.S. Hornet Museum in Alameda.Whatta scary photo! Oh, I believe that was one of the bigger ships in"Taffy 3", I was wrong I guess, thanks guys. But, does anyone know why so many ships in Taffy Three were lost?

 

 

They were operating on the fringes, no one could really believe what popped over the horizon.  By the time help could get there, it was pretty much over.  The CVE's were built on merchant hulls, virtually no armor and a flank speed with everyone rowing of 18 knots or so.  Biggest gun on our side was 5", against everything up to 18", and up to twice the speed.

Only thing that saved the rest was that Kurita thought they were fast carriers, and broke it off just as air strikes were coming in from other Taffy's.  Since he thought the were the fast carriers, he would be worried about the fast BB's as well.

The escorts sacrificed themselves to try and do as much damage as possible with torpedo runs, and cover the escape of the carriers. Only ended up losing two carriers, but the escorts paid the price in blood.

Generally blamed on Halsey's decision to send the BB's after the decoy carriers, after Kurita turned back the first time.  Then Kurita doubled back and the stage was set.

Halsey wanted to end the threat of Japanese carriers once and for all, which is why the Japanese plan put them out north as a decoy force, so the surface ships could slip in and wreak havoc with the landing forces.  Suspect that Kurita didn't expect the CVE'S covering, or their existence, so thought he was up against the fast carrier force.

love the sea stories that these topics bring out.  i was chief mate on a large military sealift RORO back in 99 and we had to do a yard period in the old beth steel graving dock in baltimore. trick was i had to get this thing light enough to basically squeak over the sill which required pumping off every little bit of fluid i could including lube oil and fresh water (which the engineers hate to do). so my calculations had us showing the smallest sliver of positive stability , which in theory should be enough to keep her upright , but was still a hair raiser. my guess was the Vasa had neutral stability , where the center of gravity was same as center of bouyancy , then all it took was the wind.....

Tanker-Builder

ModelCrazy:

 What Class of Cutter was she? I am only familiar with the Treasury class(Hamilton and Taney) and photos of modern " High Endurance" types although I really don't know what they are called.

 

USCGC STORIS (WAGL/WAG/WAGB/WMEC 38) was a one of a kind cutter commissioned on 30 Sep 1942.  She was basically an enlarged 180' buoy tender.  STORIS was 230' LOA x 43' beam; the 180's were 180' LOA x 37' beam.  

I was stationed on USCGC CONFIDENCE (WMEC 619) in Kodiak, AK.  CONFIDENCE is 210' LOA x 34' beam.  During one patrol, Dec 1982 in the western Aleutian Islands, we caught a freak wave off the port quarter and rolled 65 degrees to starboard.  I was on watch in the engine room at the time as Engineering Officer of the Watch.  We took about 100 gallons of water throught the starboard air intake, which is over the starboard switchboard - we went dark ship real fast.  We recovered from the roll, restored eleictral power and seized a pari of fishing boats for fishing an a no fishing zone.  

CG Bob

 

 

Tanker-Builder

ModelCrazy:

 What Class of Cutter was she? I am only familiar with the Treasury class(Hamilton and Taney) and photos of modern " High Endurance" types although I really don't know what they are called.

 

 

 

 

USCGC STORIS (WAGL/WAG/WAGB/WMEC 38) was a one of a kind cutter commissioned on 30 Sep 1942.  She was basically an enlarged 180' buoy tender.  STORIS was 230' LOA x 43' beam; the 180's were 180' LOA x 37' beam.  

I was stationed on USCGC CONFIDENCE (WMEC 619) in Kodiak, AK.  CONFIDENCE is 210' LOA x 34' beam.  During one patrol, Dec 1982 in the western Aleutian Islands, we caught a freak wave off the port quarter and rolled 65 degrees to starboard.  I was on watch in the engine room at the time as Engineering Officer of the Watch.  We took about 100 gallons of water throught the starboard air intake, which is over the starboard switchboard - we went dark ship real fast.  We recovered from the roll, restored eleictral power and seized a pari of fishing boats for fishing an a no fishing zone.  

 

 

Storis

Confidance

210's probably didn't ride any better than the Stoypig. As an ET2 (only had 2 ETs), My responsibility were all radios, radars and Crypto. I would rather have been on a 210 or 378.

There was a site called oops list that showed all sorts of accidents with aircraft, vehicles and ships.  One was a container ship that tipped over while still at the dock.  There were a couple photos that showed a stack of containers that tipped and hit the ones on the other side of the ship.  That may have been the same incident.

 Now See;

Those are nice.Their Photos brings my modeling mind into question. Why haven't any nice models of these come down the pike?

Steve;

     Do you have any photos of the old 110s like the old Bush's?

Steve, 

The 210's did pitch and roll a bit if the weather got rough.  CONFIDENCE would sometimes foll 10 degrees into the pier at Kodiak when the williwaws came off Old Woman.  The 210's drew 10' maz draft.  I was the DC1 on CONFIDNCE July 81 - Aug 83, when I transferred to Base Milwaukee.  Then I was assigned to USCGC VIRGORUS (WMEC 627) in New London CT, where I made DCC then CWO.  

Tanker Builder,

Most of kit makers see little interest in producing USCG cutter & boat models.  The STORIS was a one of a kind ship.  During WWII she was painted in the Thayer Blue camo and carried a Grumman JF-2 Duck on the stern with an aircraft handling crane.  The twelve 210' WMEC's were originally built without vertical stacks; the engines exhausted out the stern.  During their Midlife Maintenance Activity, all of the engine and boiler exhausts werre routed through a vertical stack.  The emergebcy generator located in aft steering retained it's exhaust out the stern.  

Are you refering to the 110' WYTM's  built by Ira S, Bushey & Sons in Broojklyn, NY?  Check the Coast Guard Tug Association, there are pictures listed under the CG Tug Fleet tab.

Cruise ships sell cabins based on the view.

And bigger windows sell better (or are priced higher).

The days of a cabin with a single 24" porthole are long gone.

So, they stack cabins built of flime-flam and light scantlings 10 or 12 'floors' tall, and in a "U" shaped hull girder.  The internal "atrium" spaces sells pretty well, too, particularly for being climate controlled.

Now, how they manage to have enough tankage for stowing enough water to allow all the passengers 4 or 5 hollywood showers a day still boggles my understanding of geometry.  Most of thise floaty hotels have additional condensers specifically to generate fresh water 24/7.

Short travel distances no doubt assist in being able to operate these beasts without needing more stowage.

Mind, the "river" cruis ships double down on this, too.

As to storms, the Ocean is vast and deep, and cares not a whit for the egos of mere men and their constructions, mote-like upon its face.  The mass of the sea is inexorable.

Capn Mac 82.

       Love the last part of your post - So True,So True!

"Now, how they manage to have enough tankage for stowing enough water to allow all the passengers 4 or 5 hollywood showers a day still boggles my understanding of geometry.  Most of thise floaty hotels have additional condensers specifically to generate fresh water 24/7."

recycled grey water... shhhhhh  dont say that too loud! lol

- "the sea is selective , slow in recognition of effort and aptitude , but fast in sinking the unfit "  - felix riesenberg

Hi;

       I could be wrong, But, my vessel was 110' at the waterline. She didn't have much bow flare, a low main deck with High bow and High after area with Quarters in that area. At the "Well Deck" there were two cranes to handle Bouys. for replacement and maintenance. The area I call the Well Deck or Main deck was very low to the Waterline. Black hull, White upperworks Buff stack and Red decks. Racing stripe di not have the Emblem in it. They said that was because when she was stricken, she still was being painted.

       Now the Range? Well, at ten knots I made it all the way to Hawaii. I had about aquarter ton of fuel left when I arrived! I know, I broke the rule, of a third out, a third in reserve and a third back! I had an escort in place that could have towed me the remainder of the trip. It was Three hundred foot long and was a salvage vessel  being transffered to Hilo from San Fransisco by an independent operator so we traveled in company!

      I traveled back in the company of a vessel going to the yard in Alemeda because of a hull crack. She was not carrying cargo! Both times we stayed within sight or each other. At least my Auto-Pilot worked well. But I did take friends along  who stood watches. We never had an Empty Wheelhouse.

domer94

recycled grey water... shhhhhh dont say that too loud! lol

Problem is in defining "grey water."

I remember reading that the design parameter is 55 gallons of potable per person per day for just wash water.  That's around 400# per passenger per day, around 6 cubic feet.

Grey water would need to be run through pre-treatment before going through the condensors again--probably simpler to just RO the seawater.

The grey water probaly goes over the side.  Remember, too, all the black water has to be held in sanitary tankage, which gets pumped out in every port.

"The grey water probaly goes over the side. Remember, too, all the black water has to be held in sanitary tankage, which gets pumped out in every port."

so we hope. i remember when royal carribean i think, was busted with the "magic pipe" coming from the oily water separater to an overboard discharge. they would run it at night. oh the glory days - i kid of course

domer94

so we hope. i remember when royal carribean i think, was busted with the "magic pipe" coming from the oily water separater to an overboard discharge. they would run it at night. oh the glory days - i kid of course

US law says you have to be beyond the 3 mile limit to discharge blackwater, except for the States that mandate 9 miles, or those with a 100 fathom limit.

The waters from the Bahamas to the southern end of the Antillies are a vast interlock of treaties and jurisdictions.  Add in under-paid, over-worked employees, and Uh-Ohs are near inevitable.

If "icky" to contemplate.