Napoleonic era warship

The big problem you're going to run into is that so few sailing ship kits are currently in production. None of the big manufacturers has made a genuinely new sailing ship kit in at least twenty years. A handful of the older kits are still being produced; others can be found on the shelves of old hobby shops, at swap meets, and on e-bay.

Unfortunately your budget is also a limiting factor. I can remember the days when the most expensive plastic kit on the market was the Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark, at $10.00. The very best Cutty Sark kit on the market, in my opinion, is the one released by the Japanese company Imai in about 1978. Imai went out of business some years ago. According to the Squadron website ( www.squadron.com ) that Cutty Sark kit is about to be reissued, under the Aoshima label. In terms of quality and historical accuracy I can recommend it almost without reservations. But the price makes me gag: $150.00.

Heller's H.M.S. Victory, on 1/100 scale, has some problems but is generally a beautiful kit. It's just been reissued under the Airfix label. I haven't seen the price, but I'm sure it's well over $100.00.

In your price range I think the currently available kits I'd recommend are (in no particular order):

Airfix's Wasa

Airfix's H.M.S. Prince (that one actually isn't in the current catalogue, but a good hobby shop might have one)

Revell's small H.M.S. Victory (not in the U.S. Revell catalogue, but available from Revel Germany - and fairly common in hobby shops)

Revell's small Cutty Sark (also available via Revell Germany. The big, 1/96 kit is out of your price range, but the little one isn't bad.)

Any of those can be made into an impressive model, more-or-less out of the box.

Airfix also makes a Victory that's probably just about within your budget, but if you're interested in historical accuracy I can't recommend it. The shape of the bow is severely distorted.

Revell used to make quite a few excellent, medium-sized sailing ship kits, but most of them are hard to find these days. If you can get your hands on a Revell Mayflower, Charles W. Morgan, Flying Cloud, or Golden Hind, my advice is to grab it while you can. The same goes for the Airfix St. Louis, Revenge, and Royal Sovereign. (The latter two are really old kits and show their age, but nice scale models could be built from them.)

There are a few others that are worth looking at - old kits from old manufacturers, frequently in boxes with other companies' names on them. (In another thread of the Forum several of us Olde Phogeys have been reminiscing recently about ancient Pyro kits that are now being sold by Lindberg.) If you're looking for a really good, well-designed kit that can be turned into a serious scale model without a lot of modification, though, I'm afraid the list is pretty short. The sad truth is that the plastic sailing ship kit market is almost, if not quite, dead.

I wish the manufacturers would pay some attention to this forum. It's convinced me that there actually is a market for such kits - not a huge market, but a sound and steady one.

Glamdring I was just window shopping a little and noticed Gasoline Alley Antiques has the Revell Mayflower. They have two versions, one is referred to as a quick build (Revell #H307) and the other one shows Revell #H316, 1:83 scale, "parts mint, 98% of parts still attached" for $24. I'm no expert, but I believe the H316 is the better choice.

Mega Hobby has the RG small scale Cutty Sark @ $26.95, Airfix Wasa @ $36.95, Heller St. Louis for $38.95, RG 1/146 Victory @$26.95. These may be available elsewhere for a little lower price.

I was checking out those which Dr Tilley recommended because he is one of the "old hands" posting here who hand out some very good advice. I meant "old" in a good way. After all, it's been 57 years since I was launched.

Anyway, check out Gasoline Alley Antiques when you're looking around. Very interesting nautical assortment, and whoever handles this category seems to know their stuff.

Ron

Glamdring,

Contact me off the BB at jbgroby@cox.net I might have something for you.

Jake

How about $12 to $15? I would suggest the Lindberg Jolly Roger. Don't let the name fool you, it is the best representation of a French frigate of the late 18th / early 19th century and despite some excess flash on the parts, is not a bad kit.

However, it is small, about 14" long, but a lot of detail can be added to it.

We have talked a lot about this kit here at FSM because it is really the only choice in plastic for kitbashing a replica of the HMS Surprise from the movie Master and Commander
Scott

I agree with Scottrc about the Lindberg "Jolly Roger." It is, in fact, a reissue of a late sixties kit; it's a reasonably accurate scale model of a French frigate, La Flore. It's likely to be found on a hobby shop shelf alongside another alleged "pirate ship" from Lindberg labeled "Captain Kidd." That one is a reboxing of a late-seventeenth-century German ship of the line, the Wappen von Hamburg.

Both of them are reasonably detailed and accurate kits - considering their age. Those silly labels are a demonstration of the times. The manufacturers, it seems, assume that names like La Flore and Wappen von Hamburg won't sell kits. Well, maybe they're right.

The history of the Revell Mayflower kits is complicated; we've discussed it elsewhere in this Forum. The bottom line is that the two kits differ in two respects. The "quick build" one is bigger, and it doesn't have the hundred or so rigging blocks that came with the smaller one. (You read that right. The smaller one is more complicated.) Both of them are good, accurate representations of the 1950s-vintage replica vessel Mayflower II. They're among the best detailed ship kits Revell ever made. If I were building one of them I'd probably want to replace the rigging blocks, deadeyes, etc. with aftermarket parts in any case, so I'd probably buy the larger one. But either has the potential to be made into a beautiful model.

Could one of you guys please tell me what's the scale of that "pirate" ship, the Jolly Roger, which appears to be a French frigate?

I was thinking of building a frigate to go with Heller's Le Superbe, but I wanted it at the same 1/150 scale; unfortunately, all I could find [at a reasonable price] was Revell's USS United States.

Any help appreciated! Thx

I'm not sure exactly what scale that old Lindberg La Flore is on; I suspect there's no indication on the box. But 1/150 sounds pretty close. The model may be a bit smaller than that, though. Scottrc - you've got the kit; do you know the scale?

Thanks all for the help, I am certainly going to be looking for all the kits that you have listed on Ebay and on the net. Unfortunately the one of the only hobby shops in my area is a Hobbytown with a poor model selection when it comes to anything except cars (and that is a meager selection as well) say nothing of sailing ships. The only one they have in stock is a huge USS Constitution for around $100.

Is this the Captain Kidd that you are referring to? (you'll have to find it, the direct link doesn't work)

http://www.hungates.com/Products/Models/Plastic/Ships/

This site seems to have all the kits you all are listing, below my preferred price to!

The advertised scale for La Flore/Jolly Roger is 1/133. Comparing it to drawings from the Musee de Marine indicates that the plastic model was "eyeballed" for scale... different parts of the hull scale out from 1/142 to 1/155

There is not any scale on the box of the "Jolly Roger" nor in the instructions. Since a 28 or 32 gun frigate was to be around 130' to 150', I figure this puts this kit around 1/112 to 1/110 scale. I did mine in 1/110 as the HMS Undine of 32 guns 138'.

Scott

QUOTE: Originally posted by schoonerbumm The advertised scale for La Flore/Jolly Roger is 1/133. Comparing it to drawings from the Musee de Marine indicates that the plastic model was "eyeballed" for scale... different parts of the hull scale out from 1/142 to 1/155

There are many parts that are rather extremely large on the kit. The gunwales, taffrails, main spars, wheel, jollyboat, I could go on, to support you . A modeler must do a fair amount of scratch building to keep it to one scale. However, to the eyeball, despite the oversized mainspars, the kit looks good OOB.

Scott

Thanks for the info guys! 'Guess I'm gonna try to get a kit on eBay and see what can be done with it... Of course, it won't be a pirate ship: I'll try to build it like the Flore. The plans from the Musée de la Marine in Paris will be quite useful indeed.

Thx a lot anyways!