naval warfare movies

I sincerely doubt if you will ever see a successful movie of the type you speak that is faithful to history and accuracy.

Why?  Its all about the Benjamins!  Its all about the money!   The movie studios know that it will cost them big bucks to make accurate re-creations and sets.   The movie studios know that in order to maximize the number of butts in the seats they need to get the women involved.  Make it a chick flick or at least one that the women won't mind seeing.

The new movie on the Yamato which is either out now in Japan or out soon has been described as a sentimental story of the youn sailors remembering home as they sail to their certain death.   Big accurate set - but a dog of a story.   It won't last a month in American theatres.   Probably the same elsewhere.

Titanic was a chick flick.   Pearl Harbor was a chick flick with ships and planes hoping the guys who came with the chicks would stay awake. 

Go rent some of the good old wartime films from WWII or Korea.   They're full of rousing action and some real equipment.  So what if the special effects are hokey.

Its all about the money - and that genre' of movie is not popular any more

Yes, good luck getting what you wish. I'd love to see a "Battle of Jutland", but of course a lack of romance would doom it in theatres.

I concur about a good ironclad movie. I thought some of the special effects in the Monitor movie were pretty decent. However, again, few of the fairer sex would sit and watch a movie about the Civil War sans romance. Many of todays teens and so forth would equally be bored. It would be a History Channel offering ar best. Hmmm.....Ted Turner has a thing or two for Civil War projects, maybe we could contact him.

Need a first class script to appeal to today's audience. Have script, movie to follow. Ships are only background. Plot and actors/actresses make the movie. Might be an ideal time in view of the dismal films shown in 2005. Too much garbage on the big screen now.

NB: It is all about Money. Show Hollywood how to make money on historical topics and films will follow. Lately, seems to be sequel or Television series or comic book remakes. I was a DC Comics reader back in the day, all of this Marvel Comics stuff is unknown to me. Imagine a Weird War film or Sgt. Rock or Haunted Tank. Any see "Below" ?  A  film in 2002 about a haunted WWII US submarine in European waters.  Sort of a weird war story.

  Hey, Martin's newest junkpile : the pink panther, made the #1 spot here this weekend.  Good god, what a travesty.

  " Below" was a great flick, I thought...creepy and fun.  I like almost any film with ships, correct or not, but my favourite ship series were the absolutely brilliant A/E Horatio Hornblower movies.  You can buy the boxed set now for around 40 bucks...worth every penny.  Fun to watch, lots of sailing ship action, and even the ladies seem to like it. My wife is hooked on them now !

    Hate to say it, but "Operation Petticoat" is one of my favourite ship movies, as well as "Call to Action"...back when they WROTE scripts, and didn't rely solely on effects and crappy acting.

DanCooper wrote:

Maybe an idea for a new career, Kapudan, write a script and try to sell to Peter Jackson Just imagine all the kits you could buy if he's actually interested in your writings.

what a brillant idea Mr. Cooper ! in fact, one of my close friends is a professional scriptwriter and has signed some of the most succesful turkish miniseries scripts recently shown or are being currently shown on the TV. He's an absolute military history buff, we play warhammer 40k tabletop wargame's second world war version together. His longtime dream is a short movie project about the experience of a turkish soldier in first world war. I'd really wish that your proposal had the chance to come into reality. But seriously, we all may have a pleasant surprise from Peter Jackson in a near future. I've often read that one his dreams is making a real large scale gallipoli campaign movie. I dont remember when or where I've read but, he stated that after finishing hobbit the movie, his next project should be gallipoli. Considering the fortune he made from Lord of the Rings and the high level credit he enjoys in hollywood, he can amass the capital needed for a gigantic project. And who knows, we may even watch the 18th march naval attack to dardanelles and the sinking of HMS Goliath by the destroyer Muavenet-i Millet (whose captain's picture is my avatar). Hollywood seems to have rediscovered history in the recent years and this shall allow us to revive the events that shaped the world we are living today.

If ypu can find it, a good old-style WW II movie is "Stand by For Action," Then there is one about British Corvettes called "The Cruel Sea."  I agree that Jutland would make an awesome movie, properly done, and perhaps something on the pursuit of the Graf Spee, if it hasn't been done already.

And, yes, Salamis and Lepanto would be great with the ancient Persian/Greek fleets and the Crusaders driven back by the Ottoman Empire.

MBT70 wrote:

... and perhaps something on the pursuit of the Graf Spee, if it hasn't been done already.

Already done, in 1956   'The Battle of the River Plate'

http://imdb.com/title/tt0048990/

I've seen the movie about the Graf Spee quite a few times on TV, under the title "Pursuit of the Graf Spee."  I give it a pretty high rating.  One remarkable feature:  the opening titles credit the ships that "played parts" in the movie.  Before the action even starts, the viewer is informed that the "Graf Spee" is actually the U.S.S. Salem.

One oddity of the movie (at least the versions I've seen):  it ends with the scuttling of the ship.  We get one shot of Captain Langsdorff (well played by Peter Finch) standing on the deck of an Uruguayan merchantman gazing at the blazing wreckage of his ship in the distance.  Then the end credits roll.  There's no mention of the dramatic "last act" of the real story:  the fact that Langsdorff went back to his hotel, wrapped himself in the Graf Spee's ensign, and shot himself.  The British filmmakers must have had some specific reason to leave that out.  I wonder what it was.

I guess I'm in the minority, in that I'm rather optimistic about the future of movies about ships.  I thought "Pearl Harbor" was awful (the only war movie ever made that my wife liked better than I did) but, although some of the special effects were utterly hokey, others were mighty well done.  (Those battleship models looked a great deal better than the ones in "Tora Tora Tora."  And they were painted more-or-less correctly.)  "Titanic" had a romantic plotline that wore me out, but the moviemakers did their homework and the special effects, to my eye at least, were about as convincing as they could have been.  (They certainly were more believable than any of the earlier films on the same subject.)  "Master and Commander" is one of my favorite movies; I don't think I've met any ship enthusiast who didn't like it.  (I can't say the same for the A&E "Hornblower" series.  In my personal opinion the actor who played Hornblower was perfectly cast, the acting in general was excellent, the scenery was nice, the deviations from the original Forester stories were stupid, and the ship models were - well, pretty awful.)  "Das Boot" got generally good reviews from naval history buffs, including this one.  (Some of the models looked pretty faky, but the movie had more than enough other virtues to compensate.)  The most recent ship flick, "The New World," almost literally put me to sleep, but the shots of the ships were hard to fault. 

The dominating force in Hollywood is, and always has been, money, but in my opinion the quality of war movies in general and ship movies in particular has actually gone up in recent years.  (Compare "The Longest Day" with "Saving Private Ryan," or "Combat" with "Band of Brothers.")  Computers and other special effects hardware offer all sorts of economically feasible possibilities, and it looks to me like their potential is just starting to be tapped.  It was pretty obvious that the Greek galley fleet in "Troy" was computer-generated, but the movie makers undoubtedly are just as conscious of that fact as we are.  Let's see what the next generation of computer-generated ships looks like.

Here's a little add running around the Submarine community. Sure, it's fiction, but it could be a good "Cold War" movie. I'm posting it as is, no editing.

Mike K.

"Columbus Sub Vets Announcement

Great News from Ken Sewell, our submarine author of RED STAR ROGUE, "I would like to announce that we have signed an agreement with Warner Brothers for the purchase of the film option for Red Star Rogue.

Normally a producer or group of investors will purchase the film rights.  They in turn, attempt to sell the project to a studio.   In our case, the studio has purchased the film rights on the recommendation of two of its oldest and most respected producer/writers.   This greatly increases the chance that Red Star Rogue will make it to the silver screen.  The normal process takes about three to four years."

Ken continues, "I want to extend my thanks to the USSVI, their support has made Red Star Rogue a success."

In earlier developments, Ken announced to the members and guest attending our January Columbus Sub Vets meeting that contracts had been signed for his next book which promises to be another tale of intrigue even more revealing than his current book which has been so successful.

In conjunction with Ken Sewell's announcement, the Columbus Base had for the first time, an Audio Books edition of RED STAR ROGUE available for purchase. The cost is $26.00, which includes tax and shipping.

The RED STAR ROGUE Audio Book can be used as a wonderful DONATION to local VA Hospitals or other senior citizen centers.  Anyplace where people with poor, or no eyesight can enjoy them.  Others like the business man that just doesn't have time to sit and read and people on lengthy commutes to their jobs would really appreciate the convenience of having a copy.

Columbus Base continues to sell autographed copies of the hardback book for $22.00, tax and shipping included. A portion of all Red Star Rogue sales (books and audio-books) will be, and already has been, donated to USSVI charities.

To order by credit card visit the Columbus Base website, www.Columbus.com  Order information is on the home page.

Otherwise, you can send checks or money orders made payable to Columbus Base of USSVI. Mail your order to:

Bill Anderson

8395 Lucas Pike

Plain City, OH 43064-8814

$26.00 will get you the Audio Book.  For $22.00 Bill will ship the hard cover edition. The latter will be personally autographed by Ken Sewell.

Respectfully yours,

Bernie Kenyon

Columbus Base of USSVI"

I thought Langsdorf wrapped himself in the old Imperial Navy ensign not the Swastika bearing one.

John Wayne did something similar in a film where he depicted a merchant ship being pursured by Commonwealth forces. Lana Turner was also in the film. Forget the title at this time. Am on dialup and unable to access imdb.com within a reasonable time frame.

I think the Wayne movie was "Sea Chase."  Another good U-boat flick was "U-571," although it had a couple holes in the story line it was carried out rather well.

Here's a thought, especially in light of what Computer Generated Imagery is capable of now ... the Battle of Tsushima Straights.  There's a compellking story if there ever was one, with a fop of an arrogant Russian admiral and a tiger of strategist in Togo.  And those gnarly old pre-dreadnaughts ... what a period flick that would be!

There seems to be some argument about Langsdorff's flag.  The story that it was the old Imperial German Navy ensign seems to have orginated during the war.  The British made a good bit of public relations capital out of his alleged rejection of Nazism, based largely on a famous photo taken at the funeral of the Graf Spee crewmen who were killed in the battle.  Everybody in the picture, including the priests, is giving the Nazi salute except Langsdorff, who has his hand at his hat brim in the traditional naval manner.  Whether he actually was a staunch anti-Nazi is doubtful.  There was a period in the thirties when Raeder, the commander in chief, prohibited naval officers from joining any political party, and it seems that the kriegsmarine in general refrained from identifying itself with the Nazi Party - at least in the early years.  Langsdorff was a highly competent and patriotic officer; my guess is that he was behaving much as most other German naval officers of his generation would have done.  My recollection of the postwar accounts, though, is that they generally agree that the flag in question was in fact one that the Graf Spee had flown during the battle.

I do wonder why that scene got left out of the movie.  I'll bet there's an interesting behind-the-scenes story there - though I imagine all those responsible are long gone now.

kapudan_emir_effendi wrote:

<<SNIP>>  I've often read that one his [Peter Jackson's] dreams is making a real large scale gallipoli campaign movie. I dont remember when or where I've read but, he stated that after finishing hobbit the movie, his next project should be gallipoli. <<SNIP>>

Its been done with a major star in Mel Gibson to draw the chicks ...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082432/

... it was a rousing failure

kapudan_emir_effendi wrote:

Of course its all about bucks and profit but, fairly good scenarios can be made out of the stories of those ironclads I think. The most promising story is that of CSS Albemarle. Her building, her attack to blockading fleet and her destruction are enough for a scenario isn't it ? if you want, add some fictitious love story or something for the main guy. Only show me that ironclad in action, that's sufficent to me

I agree that the Albemarle saga or even the Arkansas saga would make an intriguing Civil War pic.

The Battle of Leyte Gulf would be interesting with all the drama of Kurita's force attacking the baby flattops and US subs sinking some of their cruisers along with the loss of the Darter. Hmmm...

I just re-read The Cruel Sea after 30 years and its a cracking good yarn. I'll try to rent the video.

What was that old English film that had to do with a cruiser battle? The British ship is sunk but one crewman is taken prisoner by the Germans. They pull into a deserted island to do repairs and the British seaman escapes with a rifle and delays them with sniper fire. It's been years since I saw it but I thought at the time it was well done.

I have to disagree with Mr. Grune's characterization of "Gallipoli" as "a rousing failure."  I have no idea how much money the movie made in the U.S., but it was one of the first Australian films to make any impression in this country at all.  (It was released in 1982.)  It was nominated for a Golden Globe, won quite a few other awards, got extremely favorable reviews from virtually all the critics, and as I understand it is generally regarded as having launched the big-time careers of both Mel Gibson and the director, Peter Weir (whose most recent effort in the genre was "Master and Commander").  I saw it for the first time in a little old restored theater in Norfolk, where it was on a double bill with "Breaker Morant."  (On the way out of the theater I distinctly heard one of the other patrons ask, "why don't the Australians just nuke the British and be done with it?")  I admit that after the first 45 minutes I was wondering when the fighting was going to start, but the finale practically blew me away.  The DVD & Video Guide 2006 gives it 4 1/2 stars out of a possible five, and calls it an "appealing character study" that "manages to say more about life on the battlefront than many of the more straightforward pictures in the genre." 

I agree.  It doesn't have any spectacular, wide-screen battle scenes (which no Australian movie company of 1982 could afford), and it doesn't really make any effort to narrate the events of the campaign.  There's certainly room for another, more spectacular, more narrative-oriented movie on the same subject.  But so far there have been remarkably few movies about World War I, and I personally would rank this one among the four or five best.

I think the movie Onyxman is talking about is called "Sailor of the King."  According to Leonard Maltin's 2004 Movie and Video Guide, it was released in 1953 and had the alternate British title "Single Handed."  It starred Jeffrey Hunter, Michael Rennie, and Wendy Hiller, and was based on a short story called "Brown on Resolution," by none other than C.S. Forester.

I can't resist asking the following trivia question.  There's another connection between Jeffrey Hunter and C.S. Forester.  Anybody know what I'm referring to?

DanCooper wrote:

Hey Kapudan, just remembering something, you want a movie about Ironclads, yes ?  You are Turkish, so in your own history there is a chapter that would make a great movie about those. I remember seeing a documentary about the Krimean war, where the English deployed a completely new kind of ship (if you could call it a ship at all) there were those massive armored floating platforms they used against the Turkish fortifications, after loosing ship after ship from the Turkish cannons. To make it a little more appealing, throw in a love story between an english officer and the daughter of the Turkish garrison commander Of course, to make the story work, the officer has to die and the poor girl going mad from sadness throws herself into the sea......  and nobody lives happily ever after

You are full of brilliant ideas Mr. Cooper perhaps you may try entering to the scriptwriting too. However, I assume that you have confused a little historical point. During the crimean war Britain and Ottoman Empire were allies fighting against Czar's Russia. the floating batteries you mention were french and were used against the russian fortress of kinburn at the very end of the war. Well crimean war is a very interesting major conflict of the long 19th century, at least for the first large scale use of the industrial revolution's products such as telegraph, rifled weapons, shell guns, steam engine and photography, its dramatic part that may please hollywood bosses is rather on the old fashioned land clashes (remember the charge of the light brigade or the thin red line ? ) the subjects of the real showdown on the seas of industrial revolution are still on the pages of the war between the states. And I insist that the story of CSS Albemarle is a certain pillar for a possible blockbuster. built virtually from nothing on a cornfield (what we speak here is not an indian canoe but the high tech of the age), she menaged to crush nearly whole unionist presence in her area and her end is the result of another legendary show of individual courage and clever use of new technology. I can't think a better script for a good epic.

As a little footnote to professor Tilley's comments, I have a wonderful little novel which is named "Prisoner of War". It's plotline even gave me doubts for if it was originally written as a movie script. This book tells the story of a young british sailor who participated to the battle of jutland as member of a destroyer's crew which escorted the battlecruiser squadron. The hero witnesses the mauling of Adm. Beatty's ships then his ship is sunk too and he's taken prisoner. the rest of the book tells his attemps to escape from the camp in Germany. well that may not be what we exactly want of a great war naval movie, it has plenty of potential to attract attention from movie industry and I pray for that this becomes  real one day.

I agree about "Sink the Bismarck.  Most of it was done with models, but I can't recall having seen any more convincing model work in a movie.

I did have a couple of small reservations about it.  I've never been able to figure out why those moviemakers took a couple of liberties with history, in that they showed the Bismarck shooting down a Swordfish and sinking a British destroyer.  (Neither of those things actually happened.)  They also made the German admiral, Lutjens, into something of a caricature - the aging, fanatical, and slightly naive Nazi.  ("The ship is sinking?  She can't!  The Fuhrer promised!")  The books I've read suggest that Lujens was a thoroughly competent, veteran officer.  Whether he actually joined the Party or not I don't know (lots of German naval officers of that generation didn't), but I find it hard to believe that he behaved like the actor in the movie.

My nominee for the worst use of ship models in a movie is the old John Wayne/Kirk Douglas flick "In Harm's Way."  The models in that thing were enormous (the Yamato had three people inside it, and the destroyers one person each), but considerably less detail than the typical 1/700 kit has nowadays.  And some of the overall proportions (especially the American cruiser) were awful.  My understanding is that Kirk Douglas was furious with the results; he said the ships looked like toys.  He was right.

Second place in that category goes to the A&E "Hornblower" shows.  I reviewed a book called Hornblower's Ships, which described how those models were built.  Some stories are really better left untold....

What a travesty Master and Commander was. The art direction and historical re-enactment was thrilling, but SO much hokum. Poor Patrick O'B must have been rolling in his grave. And the A&E Hornblower series suffered from the terrible ships IMHO.

Military movies have to have that really big action showdown. Spectacle ain't in it, as Jack Aubrey would have said. And the good guys have to win. That's what made the maligned 'Gettsburg' actually rather good.

So I recall Sink the Bismarck fondly. And consequently I think an absolutely ripping film could be made from 'HMS Ulysses', it has all the right elements for a boffo Hollywood flick. I forget the author's name, same guy that wrote Ice Station Zebra.