naval warfare movies

The Bedford Incident was indeed a chilling example of wjat could have happened during the Cold War.  In the movie, the Bedford was a Forrest Sherman class destroyer and it's hard-core skipper, Richard Widmark, pulled off the role with superb acting skills.  The fact that it ended with the Soviet sub and the Bedford going up together in a nuclear blast was a classic statement of atomic overkill.

The Enemy Below was a fave of mine, too, with Bob Mitchum's Buckley Class destroyer escort pitted against Kurt Jurgen's U-Boat.  The models were well-made and filmed very realisticly, but best of all, it was a pure action flick all the way through ... two enemy vessels locked in a struggle to the death ... mano-a-mano ... good stuff.

As for a Jutland movie .... they should script it from the perspective of two main battery gunners, one Brtish and one German, following their lives from the early days before the conflict and all the way through to the German fleet scuttling at Scapa Flow.  Sure, throw in the romance with wives and girlfriends, but make it a history lesson as well and use a lot of period clothes and customs and utensils and such.  The German fellow would be posted on SMS Von der Tann, oldest of the new German dreadnaughts, but with a feature that made it deadlier than even Seydlitz ... the ability to elevate it's 11" guns to 45 degrees.  It was this anomoly that enabled it to engage and sink HMS Invincible from extreme range, covering it with glory at the outset.  The British sailor should be on Admiral Beatty's flagship, the Battlecruiser HMS Lion, pride of the fleet and a stunning contrast to Von der Tann.  You can't tell me there isn't a lot of good red meat in that story line .....

alan mozzar wrote:

Another really good cold war flick was the Bedford Incident(US warship vs Russian sub) Richard Widmark was the the captain of the US ship,a frigate I think. The enemy below Robert Mitchem I think thats how its spelled US destroyer vs U-boat WWII was also good

The Bedford Incident was a scary realistic movie. I also agree that Sink the Bismark was well made especially for 1960. I think they should have been more historically accurate and not have the Bismark sinking the destoyer, which of course never happened. Wouldn't mind a newer CGI version myself.

I agree with Gerarddm, Master and Commander was a disapointment on may levels.. but I think it highlights the problem with naval movies, the story lines are simply too complicated for even the above average intelligence movie goer and there is not much current 'relevance'.  Prior to the 1960s (and the Lockheed Constellation and Boeing jets) anyone traveling overseas went by ship, and their were a lot of WWII and Korean war vets that could interpret shipboard life for their friends and families in the audience. Plus a lot were attracted by the "and I was there" factor. Saving Private Ryan was one of the last movies able to cash in on that factor, it was even written into the movie. The Bismarck, Pearl Harbor (Tora Tora Tora not the Disney abomination), Midway and Graf Spee stories were already in most of the public's imagination when the movies were made.... there was even a popular song  by American singer Johnny Horton in the early sixties called 'Sink the Bismarck' (he also had one on the Battle of New Orleans).  So today we will have to setttle for remakes of the Poseidon adventure.

But for current relevance, there is one naval movie that Hollywood would love to make, the true story of the Spanish Galleon San Jose and one Captain Sebastian Perez del Castillo in the late 16th century. Call it "Brokeback Galleon" or "Mutiny on the Sodomy", get Willie Nelson to write a theme song for it "Sailors, frequently, secretly" and change the name of the ship to San Francisco. The ending would even be politically correct with the 'hero' ending up like "Breaker Morant" and we get to bash the Catholic Church. And just like Master and Commander, we won't need any actresses.

And I'd love to see Russel Crowe get... uh, never mind.

Now, in some fairness, I must disagree, Master & Commander was an awful movie for me--an egalitarian, we're all in'it t'gether Boyos, Royal Navy jsut "rang" wrong for me, as did the peculiar way the sailing sequences were set up.

I'm not entirely certain Hollywood could turn out a decent historical movie anymore (the hysterical drayma "Pearl Harbor" does rather leap to mind).

I've not seen Sahara, but that is because fellow Clive Cussler fans advised me not to, as trusted observers tell me they left half the story out, and the bits they invented to fill the gaps were not an improvement.  Now, I'll admit to being reflexively cynical about Hollywood output, since it seems to be centered on remakes of 70s tv shows.  (Hmm, does that suggest that Monitor v. Merrimack might be remade <g> . . . ?)

Now, if the Turkish cinema were to make Lepanto into a movie, that would be different.  There's a very large quantity of quality cinema coming from Asia (east & west) that is worth watching.

Jutland from the German POV would be very interesting.  But, then, IMHO, so would Leyte Gulf from the Japanese side.

But, that's just me, others differ.

What a travesty Master and Commander was. The art direction and historical re-enactment was thrilling, but SO much hokum. Poor Patrick O'B must have been rolling in his grave. And the A&E Hornblower series suffered from the terrible ships IMHO.

Military movies have to have that really big action showdown. Spectacle ain't in it, as Jack Aubrey would have said. And the good guys have to win. That's what made the maligned 'Gettsburg' actually rather good.

So I recall Sink the Bismarck fondly. And consequently I think an absolutely ripping film could be made from 'HMS Ulysses', it has all the right elements for a boffo Hollywood flick. I forget the author's name, same guy that wrote Ice Station Zebra.

I agree about "Sink the Bismarck.  Most of it was done with models, but I can't recall having seen any more convincing model work in a movie.

I did have a couple of small reservations about it.  I've never been able to figure out why those moviemakers took a couple of liberties with history, in that they showed the Bismarck shooting down a Swordfish and sinking a British destroyer.  (Neither of those things actually happened.)  They also made the German admiral, Lutjens, into something of a caricature - the aging, fanatical, and slightly naive Nazi.  ("The ship is sinking?  She can't!  The Fuhrer promised!")  The books I've read suggest that Lujens was a thoroughly competent, veteran officer.  Whether he actually joined the Party or not I don't know (lots of German naval officers of that generation didn't), but I find it hard to believe that he behaved like the actor in the movie.

My nominee for the worst use of ship models in a movie is the old John Wayne/Kirk Douglas flick "In Harm's Way."  The models in that thing were enormous (the Yamato had three people inside it, and the destroyers one person each), but considerably less detail than the typical 1/700 kit has nowadays.  And some of the overall proportions (especially the American cruiser) were awful.  My understanding is that Kirk Douglas was furious with the results; he said the ships looked like toys.  He was right.

Second place in that category goes to the A&E "Hornblower" shows.  I reviewed a book called Hornblower's Ships, which described how those models were built.  Some stories are really better left untold....

DanCooper wrote:

Hey Kapudan, just remembering something, you want a movie about Ironclads, yes ?  You are Turkish, so in your own history there is a chapter that would make a great movie about those. I remember seeing a documentary about the Krimean war, where the English deployed a completely new kind of ship (if you could call it a ship at all) there were those massive armored floating platforms they used against the Turkish fortifications, after loosing ship after ship from the Turkish cannons. To make it a little more appealing, throw in a love story between an english officer and the daughter of the Turkish garrison commander Of course, to make the story work, the officer has to die and the poor girl going mad from sadness throws herself into the sea......  and nobody lives happily ever after

You are full of brilliant ideas Mr. Cooper perhaps you may try entering to the scriptwriting too. However, I assume that you have confused a little historical point. During the crimean war Britain and Ottoman Empire were allies fighting against Czar's Russia. the floating batteries you mention were french and were used against the russian fortress of kinburn at the very end of the war. Well crimean war is a very interesting major conflict of the long 19th century, at least for the first large scale use of the industrial revolution's products such as telegraph, rifled weapons, shell guns, steam engine and photography, its dramatic part that may please hollywood bosses is rather on the old fashioned land clashes (remember the charge of the light brigade or the thin red line ? ) the subjects of the real showdown on the seas of industrial revolution are still on the pages of the war between the states. And I insist that the story of CSS Albemarle is a certain pillar for a possible blockbuster. built virtually from nothing on a cornfield (what we speak here is not an indian canoe but the high tech of the age), she menaged to crush nearly whole unionist presence in her area and her end is the result of another legendary show of individual courage and clever use of new technology. I can't think a better script for a good epic.

As a little footnote to professor Tilley's comments, I have a wonderful little novel which is named "Prisoner of War". It's plotline even gave me doubts for if it was originally written as a movie script. This book tells the story of a young british sailor who participated to the battle of jutland as member of a destroyer's crew which escorted the battlecruiser squadron. The hero witnesses the mauling of Adm. Beatty's ships then his ship is sunk too and he's taken prisoner. the rest of the book tells his attemps to escape from the camp in Germany. well that may not be what we exactly want of a great war naval movie, it has plenty of potential to attract attention from movie industry and I pray for that this becomes  real one day.

I think the movie Onyxman is talking about is called "Sailor of the King."  According to Leonard Maltin's 2004 Movie and Video Guide, it was released in 1953 and had the alternate British title "Single Handed."  It starred Jeffrey Hunter, Michael Rennie, and Wendy Hiller, and was based on a short story called "Brown on Resolution," by none other than C.S. Forester.

I can't resist asking the following trivia question.  There's another connection between Jeffrey Hunter and C.S. Forester.  Anybody know what I'm referring to?

I have to disagree with Mr. Grune's characterization of "Gallipoli" as "a rousing failure."  I have no idea how much money the movie made in the U.S., but it was one of the first Australian films to make any impression in this country at all.  (It was released in 1982.)  It was nominated for a Golden Globe, won quite a few other awards, got extremely favorable reviews from virtually all the critics, and as I understand it is generally regarded as having launched the big-time careers of both Mel Gibson and the director, Peter Weir (whose most recent effort in the genre was "Master and Commander").  I saw it for the first time in a little old restored theater in Norfolk, where it was on a double bill with "Breaker Morant."  (On the way out of the theater I distinctly heard one of the other patrons ask, "why don't the Australians just nuke the British and be done with it?")  I admit that after the first 45 minutes I was wondering when the fighting was going to start, but the finale practically blew me away.  The DVD & Video Guide 2006 gives it 4 1/2 stars out of a possible five, and calls it an "appealing character study" that "manages to say more about life on the battlefront than many of the more straightforward pictures in the genre." 

I agree.  It doesn't have any spectacular, wide-screen battle scenes (which no Australian movie company of 1982 could afford), and it doesn't really make any effort to narrate the events of the campaign.  There's certainly room for another, more spectacular, more narrative-oriented movie on the same subject.  But so far there have been remarkably few movies about World War I, and I personally would rank this one among the four or five best.

I just re-read The Cruel Sea after 30 years and its a cracking good yarn. I'll try to rent the video.

What was that old English film that had to do with a cruiser battle? The British ship is sunk but one crewman is taken prisoner by the Germans. They pull into a deserted island to do repairs and the British seaman escapes with a rifle and delays them with sniper fire. It's been years since I saw it but I thought at the time it was well done.

kapudan_emir_effendi wrote:

Of course its all about bucks and profit but, fairly good scenarios can be made out of the stories of those ironclads I think. The most promising story is that of CSS Albemarle. Her building, her attack to blockading fleet and her destruction are enough for a scenario isn't it ? if you want, add some fictitious love story or something for the main guy. Only show me that ironclad in action, that's sufficent to me

I agree that the Albemarle saga or even the Arkansas saga would make an intriguing Civil War pic.

The Battle of Leyte Gulf would be interesting with all the drama of Kurita's force attacking the baby flattops and US subs sinking some of their cruisers along with the loss of the Darter. Hmmm...

kapudan_emir_effendi wrote:

<<SNIP>>  I've often read that one his [Peter Jackson's] dreams is making a real large scale gallipoli campaign movie. I dont remember when or where I've read but, he stated that after finishing hobbit the movie, his next project should be gallipoli. <<SNIP>>

Its been done with a major star in Mel Gibson to draw the chicks ...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082432/

... it was a rousing failure

There seems to be some argument about Langsdorff's flag.  The story that it was the old Imperial German Navy ensign seems to have orginated during the war.  The British made a good bit of public relations capital out of his alleged rejection of Nazism, based largely on a famous photo taken at the funeral of the Graf Spee crewmen who were killed in the battle.  Everybody in the picture, including the priests, is giving the Nazi salute except Langsdorff, who has his hand at his hat brim in the traditional naval manner.  Whether he actually was a staunch anti-Nazi is doubtful.  There was a period in the thirties when Raeder, the commander in chief, prohibited naval officers from joining any political party, and it seems that the kriegsmarine in general refrained from identifying itself with the Nazi Party - at least in the early years.  Langsdorff was a highly competent and patriotic officer; my guess is that he was behaving much as most other German naval officers of his generation would have done.  My recollection of the postwar accounts, though, is that they generally agree that the flag in question was in fact one that the Graf Spee had flown during the battle.

I do wonder why that scene got left out of the movie.  I'll bet there's an interesting behind-the-scenes story there - though I imagine all those responsible are long gone now.

I think the Wayne movie was "Sea Chase."  Another good U-boat flick was "U-571," although it had a couple holes in the story line it was carried out rather well.

Here's a thought, especially in light of what Computer Generated Imagery is capable of now ... the Battle of Tsushima Straights.  There's a compellking story if there ever was one, with a fop of an arrogant Russian admiral and a tiger of strategist in Togo.  And those gnarly old pre-dreadnaughts ... what a period flick that would be!

I thought Langsdorf wrapped himself in the old Imperial Navy ensign not the Swastika bearing one.

John Wayne did something similar in a film where he depicted a merchant ship being pursured by Commonwealth forces. Lana Turner was also in the film. Forget the title at this time. Am on dialup and unable to access imdb.com within a reasonable time frame.

Here's a little add running around the Submarine community. Sure, it's fiction, but it could be a good "Cold War" movie. I'm posting it as is, no editing.

Mike K.

"Columbus Sub Vets Announcement

Great News from Ken Sewell, our submarine author of RED STAR ROGUE, "I would like to announce that we have signed an agreement with Warner Brothers for the purchase of the film option for Red Star Rogue.

Normally a producer or group of investors will purchase the film rights.  They in turn, attempt to sell the project to a studio.   In our case, the studio has purchased the film rights on the recommendation of two of its oldest and most respected producer/writers.   This greatly increases the chance that Red Star Rogue will make it to the silver screen.  The normal process takes about three to four years."

Ken continues, "I want to extend my thanks to the USSVI, their support has made Red Star Rogue a success."

In earlier developments, Ken announced to the members and guest attending our January Columbus Sub Vets meeting that contracts had been signed for his next book which promises to be another tale of intrigue even more revealing than his current book which has been so successful.

In conjunction with Ken Sewell's announcement, the Columbus Base had for the first time, an Audio Books edition of RED STAR ROGUE available for purchase. The cost is $26.00, which includes tax and shipping.

The RED STAR ROGUE Audio Book can be used as a wonderful DONATION to local VA Hospitals or other senior citizen centers.  Anyplace where people with poor, or no eyesight can enjoy them.  Others like the business man that just doesn't have time to sit and read and people on lengthy commutes to their jobs would really appreciate the convenience of having a copy.

Columbus Base continues to sell autographed copies of the hardback book for $22.00, tax and shipping included. A portion of all Red Star Rogue sales (books and audio-books) will be, and already has been, donated to USSVI charities.

To order by credit card visit the Columbus Base website, www.Columbus.com  Order information is on the home page.

Otherwise, you can send checks or money orders made payable to Columbus Base of USSVI. Mail your order to:

Bill Anderson

8395 Lucas Pike

Plain City, OH 43064-8814

$26.00 will get you the Audio Book.  For $22.00 Bill will ship the hard cover edition. The latter will be personally autographed by Ken Sewell.

Respectfully yours,

Bernie Kenyon

Columbus Base of USSVI"

I've seen the movie about the Graf Spee quite a few times on TV, under the title "Pursuit of the Graf Spee."  I give it a pretty high rating.  One remarkable feature:  the opening titles credit the ships that "played parts" in the movie.  Before the action even starts, the viewer is informed that the "Graf Spee" is actually the U.S.S. Salem.

One oddity of the movie (at least the versions I've seen):  it ends with the scuttling of the ship.  We get one shot of Captain Langsdorff (well played by Peter Finch) standing on the deck of an Uruguayan merchantman gazing at the blazing wreckage of his ship in the distance.  Then the end credits roll.  There's no mention of the dramatic "last act" of the real story:  the fact that Langsdorff went back to his hotel, wrapped himself in the Graf Spee's ensign, and shot himself.  The British filmmakers must have had some specific reason to leave that out.  I wonder what it was.

I guess I'm in the minority, in that I'm rather optimistic about the future of movies about ships.  I thought "Pearl Harbor" was awful (the only war movie ever made that my wife liked better than I did) but, although some of the special effects were utterly hokey, others were mighty well done.  (Those battleship models looked a great deal better than the ones in "Tora Tora Tora."  And they were painted more-or-less correctly.)  "Titanic" had a romantic plotline that wore me out, but the moviemakers did their homework and the special effects, to my eye at least, were about as convincing as they could have been.  (They certainly were more believable than any of the earlier films on the same subject.)  "Master and Commander" is one of my favorite movies; I don't think I've met any ship enthusiast who didn't like it.  (I can't say the same for the A&E "Hornblower" series.  In my personal opinion the actor who played Hornblower was perfectly cast, the acting in general was excellent, the scenery was nice, the deviations from the original Forester stories were stupid, and the ship models were - well, pretty awful.)  "Das Boot" got generally good reviews from naval history buffs, including this one.  (Some of the models looked pretty faky, but the movie had more than enough other virtues to compensate.)  The most recent ship flick, "The New World," almost literally put me to sleep, but the shots of the ships were hard to fault. 

The dominating force in Hollywood is, and always has been, money, but in my opinion the quality of war movies in general and ship movies in particular has actually gone up in recent years.  (Compare "The Longest Day" with "Saving Private Ryan," or "Combat" with "Band of Brothers.")  Computers and other special effects hardware offer all sorts of economically feasible possibilities, and it looks to me like their potential is just starting to be tapped.  It was pretty obvious that the Greek galley fleet in "Troy" was computer-generated, but the movie makers undoubtedly are just as conscious of that fact as we are.  Let's see what the next generation of computer-generated ships looks like.

MBT70 wrote:

... and perhaps something on the pursuit of the Graf Spee, if it hasn't been done already.

Already done, in 1956   'The Battle of the River Plate'

http://imdb.com/title/tt0048990/