Completed Pics DD-445 + DD-537 = DD-670 Destroyer Math

You have the right way of attacking the problem.   But let me add a few extras ...

You should look at the L'Arsenal 5-inch guns.   They are properly sized.  Both the Tamiya and Trumpeter ones are too small

You will also want to look at the L'Arsenal 40mm guns.  

The Tam kit doesn't have enough and the Trump ones are suitable only for the dustbin.

The 20mm Oerlikons in either kit need to be replaced too.   These are sweet.

Jaques at L'Arsenal is supposed to be readying a set of replacement weapons and a comprehensive PE set which I believe will rival the GMM set as far as detail and accuracy.  I have a couple on pre-order.

http://www.larsenal.com/GB/index.php

Order direct from L'Arsenal or from WEM, PacFront, or shipcamouflage.com

Thanks Ed, 

I'm checking it out. 

Edit:  This may be difficult, I don't know French. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

ridleusmc wrote:

Thanks Ed,  I'm checking it out.  Edit:  This may be difficult, I don't know French.  Semper Fi, Chris

Jacques posts notices on SteelNavy in English which is much better than my French. 

They also have an English side to the website

Hey Ed,

Thanks for the info on L'arsenal.  I think I'm just going to use the 5" turrets from the Tamiya kit.  It's not the expense, their prices seem very fair and reasonable.  What worries me is that they don't have a encoded ordering system.  I'm a bit of a worrier.

Semper Fi,

Chris   

In the States, try Pacific Front Hobbies

http://www.pacificfront.com/

Bill Gruner has a secure site.

I've also ordered L'Arsenal from White Ensign in the UK 

http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/

Thanks Ed, Thanks Gerard,

I'll try that after work.

Semper Fi,

Chris

For reference, here's some photos I shot last year in Baton Rouge on the USS Kidd (DD661) of the areas mentioned in this post:

Kidd is touted as the remaining Fletcher class most closely restored to its WWII configuration.  I've got more pics, if there's any specific area you're interested in.

Dan

Looks good Chris You seem to have alot of good help here. I am building the Trumpeter Sullivans kit right now also. The fit is pretty good. I have hardly used any fillers. I used the L'arsenal twin 40's and there is a supplier in the states. Tony Bunch sels them. He is working on his web site so all I could do is give you his email.

Nice pics of the Kidd. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks Dan and Drew,

I haven't had much of a chance to track down those turrets, but I'm going to get to it soon.  Great reference pics of the Kidd, they'll help alot. 

I have a picture here of the USS Dortch in 1943 (one of those guys on deck may be my Great Uncle).  It looks to me like the aft AAA mount (between the 3rd and 4th 5 inch turrets) looks like a 40mm sitting on the deck without a gun tub.  What does it look like to you guys?

Semper Fi,

Chris

Chris - That pic is of an early war Fletcher before under going AAA refit in '44.  The aft twin 40 bofors on the upper deck is not in a 'tub' like you think. None of the 40mm's were in a tub like on the larger ships. They just had a thin shield, at railing height, around the outer edge only. If you look at the upper deck on the Trumpeter kit, that's exactly how it should be according to the references I found.

The turrets are cheap. I think I got mine for $6. And are a far cry better than the kit ones. They come with turned metal barrels for the one's without the blast bags. They are beautiful.

Email Tony  larsenal_usa@cox.net and he'll let you know the details.

That's a great pic too. You can see all the details you need to make your kit accurate. Bravo!

I bought some turrets from pacificfront.com.  I just have to wait for the mail. 

I passed on the 40mm and 20mm's, because I have some white metal pieces from toms that look very nice. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

Hi Chris,

Just saw your post on the DD-670 Dortch you are building. I'm getting ready to start one myself, my Dad served on her in Korea. I have pictures from his Navy scrapbook of how she looked then.

 John F.

You're welcome, Chris.  I went over the Kidd taking photos of everything - I have 173 hi-res pics.  I was collecting them as reference for the absolutely magnificent model of the USS Johnston I intend to build once I finish all these other projects. :^)  Drop me an e-mail if there's any other area you need a detail shot of.  For example, I have several more shots of the dual 40mm mounts from different angles.

Dan

Hey John,

This is great.  Your dad served on the same ship as my Great Uncle.  Different times though.  I'm not sure when my Great Uncle was assigned to the Dortch.  I know he was on her for the battle of the Phillipenes and for the signing of the Surrender in Tokyo Bay.  

My Uncle A was Career Navy, and he served on quite a few vessels.  I'm not sure about this, but he may have been on the USS Newport News during Korea.  He did have numerous ship and shore assignments which included Icebreakers, Cruisers, Destroyers, Destroyer Escorts, Teaching Gunnery, etc, etc... He retired as a Senior Chief in the 70's.  One Photo of him has hash marks going so far up his arm, it almost touches his rank.  Maybe your Father met my Uncle during their time in service.  He was pretty annoyed that his favorite nephew (my father) went the Jar-Head route.  He was probably annoyed in heaven when his favorite grand-nephew (Me) went the Jar-head route.  He didn't like Marines.   

John, good luck on your Dortch.  I know the mast and armorment changed between World War II and Korea, so you'll need to do some refitting.  I can't wait to see it.

Dan, I sent you an email  

Drew, So the Trumpeter 43 structure will work, cool. 

Semper Fi,

Chris   

Hey Dan,

I tried to send you a direct email, but it was blocked. 

Thanks for your offer.

Chris

You're probably using a web-based e-mail program (yahoo, etc).  That address always blocks those.  Just post here what you're looking for, I'll try to provide. 

Dan

Comanche Test wrote:

You're probably using a web-based e-mail program (yahoo, etc).  That address always blocks those.  Just post here what you're looking for, I'll try to provide.  Dan

Can you post pics of life rafts, radars, and gun directors.

Thanks Army,

Semper Fi,

Chris

Chris, the files are 1 meg each, and I didn't want to drive everyone nuts with the file size, so I uploaded them to a file sharing site.  Here's the address of the first one:

http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/a57ba01411822

There are 20 or so.  Keep hitting "next" 'til it hits the end of the gallery.

Good luck with your model!

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Chris

Hey guys,

I've made some progress on my Dortch build.  This being my first ship, I'm taking my time.  There was even a break to build a 707, which was a nice simple build before jumping into a challenge. 

First off.  Ships are an entirely different monster than planes or tanks.  Ships take more deliberate planning for the propper installation and painting of the details and fine "fidely bits." I have alot more PE on my hands than usual.  Confusion would prevail if it weren't for "The Basics of Ship Modeling" by Mike Ashely.  I need to think in depth about every subassembly even with this general guide book.  It's a challenge, but I'm confident it'll be worth it.  It's that important to have my Great Uncle's destroyer. 

I've been assembling stuff from Tamiya and from Trumpeter to see what looks and works best.  The 5 inch gun mounts from Corsair Armada through Pacific Front Hobbies are built, and some of the Gold Medal PE subassembies are built. 

Here's a mock up.  The subs are assembled, but not glued on. 

I have 2 questions for you guys. 

1. Is the plate patterns on the side of the Tamiya Fletcher Hull Accurate?  I have my doubts, it seems like raised panel seems are out of scale for a 350th ship. 

2. Is my approach all wrong for my first ship? 

Semper Fi,

Chris

To my eye the plating on the hull of the Tam Fletcher is fine.   It is not overly heavy and gives the impression that there is some structure there -- not just a smooth surface.

When painted the plate lines recede into the background,  but provide sufficient raised surface that a weathering drybrush application picks them out.

You are going at it correctly,  Work in subassemblies.   Break the work into logical tasks and work on them.   Stop when you are tired,  or move on to a different segment. 

Consider replacing the Trumpeter stacks with the ones from Tamiya.  Or at least sand off those hideous grates and replace them with the grates from the Tam kit.  

I spent a entire weekend detailing the aft superstructure,  adding brass hatches,  wire,  styrene stock, some PE model RR grab bars which make great handrails.   Now on to the mid-ship's deckhouse.

Thanks Ed,

Just to be clear, you're talking about those grates near the base of the stacks, right?  I may use the Tamiya stacks.  I'll have to cut something to make the searchlight platform on the forward stack fit, but that shouldn't be too bad. 

I was hoping to get some good work done on the Dortch this weekend, but I may have a problem.  My computer died, and I have a new computer for a very nice price.  However, transfering files and squaring away device drivers may cut into my plastic time.  Maybe I could live without a computer, but then how would I post and read the FS forums?

Semper Fi,

Chris

ridleusmc wrote:

Just to be clear, you're talking about those grates near the base of the stacks, right?  I may use the Tamiya stacks.  I'll have to cut something to make the searchlight platform on the forward stack fit, but that shouldn't be too bad.

Yes, the grates at the base of the stacks

You could either use the Trump stacks, sand away the grates & use the Tam grates or grates which come with the L'Arsenal upgrade set.

Or you could go with the Tam stacks & grates and notch in a groove.   Use the Trump stacks as templates

Roger that, 

Those grates have been chopped and sanded.  I'll get some pics up when I glue the Tamiya Grates onto the Trumpeter stacks.  The Trumpeter stacks seem best because they're set up for the same configuration as the Dortch.  Other than those cut outs and the grates, both sets of stacks look the same when assembled. 

Thanks for pointing those grates out, Ed.  They were horribly too large for scale.  I'm a little emberrassed that I didn't notice them.  In fact, the Tamiya parts may be a little large for scale.  I'm surprised that Tom's or GMM hasn't included these in their PE sets.  I'll go with Tamiya, because they're much, much better than the Trumpeter grates (which are now dust). 

Semper Fi,

Chris

ridleusmc wrote:

Thanks for pointing those grates out, Ed.  They were horribly too large for scale.  I'm a little emberrassed that I didn't notice them.  In fact, the Tamiya parts may be a little large for scale.  I'm surprised that Tom's or GMM hasn't included these in their PE sets.  I'll go with Tamiya, because they're much, much better than the Trumpeter grates (which are now dust).

No problem. 

The Tam grates are the best choice unless you are going the aftermarket route.   Even then you may have to mix-n-match sets to get the best parts available. 

The grates are in the L'Arsenal Sullivans upgrade/improvement set as PE appliques.

It's time to start painting, and I have another problem.  Hopefully, you guys can help me out.  Ed you've definately been a great help so far.

My problem;  I bought some Polly Scale paint for this build, PS # F505334 Navy Blue 5-N and PS # F505338 Weather Deck Blue 20-B.  Polly Scale (just like its brother Testors MM Acrylic) clogs my airbrush no matter how much thinner I use (and I use the manufacturer recommended Testors).  Tamiya paints get along fine with my airbrush.  They even clean up easily.  I'm giving up on Polly Scale, it's just too hard to work with.  I want to use Tamiya paint.  It has worked well for me for a long time. 

My Question;  What are the best Tamiya colors to use for Navy Blue 5-N and Weather Deck Blue 20-B?  I can do some mixing. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

Chris, I can't help you there. I use polly scale just fine and throw out Tamiya. Funny ain't it.

I think I have the mixing for the deck blue. I'll get back to you.

Yeah, it is pretty funny how some paints work very well for some set ups and poorly for others.  I don't know why my Airbrush doesn't get along with Polly Scale or Testor MM Acrylics.  It's a Badger 155 Anthem (Dual Action, Internal Mix, Syphon Fed).  I've tried all kinds of air pressures and everything.  It always clogs up on the tip of the brushes needle and causes some nasty spurting.  It will blow by the clog at high pressure with the trigger all the way back, but then I have no control.  It's a good thing I have short hair, it's difficult to pull out. 

I have paint test spots on some scrap strips.  The Polly Scale 5-N Navy Blue and 20-B Weather Deck Blue look so close that they're difficult to tell appart.  Tamiya XF-17 Sea Blue is darker but close to both.  I'm going to keep playing, thanks for the info

Semper Fi,

Chris