Completed Pics DD-445 + DD-537 = DD-670 Destroyer Math

Thanks Drew, Thanks mfsob,

It's always a satisfying feeling when you try something new and are successful.  It's also satisfying when the last model you build is the best looking thing on the shelf. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

Thanks Ed. That means alot, because ships are tough.  It's a completely different challenge than aircraft or armored vehicles. 

Semper Fi,

Chris 

It's finally finished and I'm quite pleased. 

You'll probably notice that the base is quite sparse.  A local trophy shop is making the pieces that will fill out the base nicely.  The Seal of the United States Navy will be on the ship's Starboard side, and lettering stating, "USS Dortch, DD-670, Commissioned August 7, 1943" will be on the Port side.  Both will be presented to the Port side of the ship.  I'm hoping it'll look good.  Unfortunately, I have to wait a couple of weeks, because the nearby High School has some very successful sports and academic teams. 

But the Model itself is done, and I love the way it looks.

Semper Fi,

Chris

Yes, Yes they are.  I fear that I'm hooked. 

I thought that I'd post some progress shots to show you guys that I have been getting something done.  I'm having fun with this one.  Let me know if you guys see anything that needs my attention. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

ridleusmc wrote:

AJB93 wrote: Very nice Chris! First ship did you say? I wouldn't have known! I hate to be a vulture, but what are you doing with the left over parts? (Hint hint)  I hate to say it, but I'm going to hold on to them.  This project makes me want to build more ship (maybe another Fletcher after a few builds).  Sorry, I'd hate to part with the stash.  Everything that wasn't used, looks useful.  I often packrat stuff away for a year or two then toss it.  Usually, the idea of "what was I thinking" pops into my head.  This shouldn't happen in this case.

That's fine, I've scrounged enough Fletchers to keep me occupied for quite some time I just love these ships, they are perfect subjects for many, many builds.

ridleusmc wrote:

Ed, maybe the third try is the charm.  I cut down that tub I made last night, and I roughly fashioned some railing for it.  Gold Medal Models puts some nice canvas covered railings in their Fletcher/Sullivans PE set.  I used a little bit for my Fwd Bridge Gun Position.  What do you think?

Looks good.  Be sure to add a couple of support legs on the front

AJB93 wrote:

Very nice Chris! First ship did you say? I wouldn't have known! I hate to be a vulture, but what are you doing with the left over parts? (Hint hint)

I hate to say it, but I'm going to hold on to them.  This project makes me want to build more ship (maybe another Fletcher after a few builds).  Sorry, I'd hate to part with the stash.  Everything that wasn't used, looks useful.  I often packrat stuff away for a year or two then toss it.  Usually, the idea of "what was I thinking" pops into my head.  This shouldn't happen in this case.    

Ed, maybe the third try is the charm.  I cut down that tub I made last night, and I roughly fashioned some railing for it.  Gold Medal Models puts some nice canvas covered railings in their Fletcher/Sullivans PE set.  I used a little bit for my Fwd Bridge Gun Position.  What do you think? 

Semper Fi,

Chris 

Again, I'll refer you back to the DestroyerHistory.org site.   While this photo is of a round-bridge the add-on platform on the bridge face (in this case) was a narrower pipe-rail structure.

Apply some railing to a slip of plastic, then glue some tissue paper over it as a canvas dodger.

Very nice Chris! First ship did you say? I wouldn't have known!

I hate to be a vulture, but what are you doing with the left over parts? (Hint hint) 

I'm going to add the forward bridge gun tub.  I found a couple of pictures of them (on other Fletchers), and I don't think it'll be hard to fabricate a reasonable faximile.  I'm going with that Pilly Naval Yard picture as my primary reference, because that's just the best picture of the Dortch that I can find.  Maybe someday in the future I can build Phillipenes Campaign Dortch, or a War's End Dortch.  Right now, I think it's best to go with a Commissioning Dortch.  

Semper Fi,

Chris 

You have two different armament configurations in your two photos.

I would say that the second picture is the builders photo,  taken during shakedown, prior to acceptance by the Navy.  There look to be civilian dress among the sailors.  Yes, there look to be small 20mm tubs immediately forward of the bridgehouse.    Look too at the structure attached to the bridge face between the gun mount and the bridge.   That was an extra 20mm platform.   It was put on in the very end of the 20mm forward phase of the armament evolution.   40mm guns were slowly coming on line.   The second photo shows 3 twin mounts.

The other photo shows 40mm guns forward.   The 52 mount is turned to face the camera.  Look immediately behind it.   That straight "stick" is a 40mm barrel (see the little flash suppressor flare)  Gone too is the 20mm on the add-on platform on the bridge face.   I would say that the first photo is her operational appearance.   After completion and acceptance by the Navy (before or aftercommissioning) she likely went to a yard and received the 40mm forward to replace the 20s.  The first photo shows 5 twin mounts.

If you're doing the second photo - then your assembly makes sense.  Be sure to add the platform on the bridge face for the extra 20.     

Ed, Thank you for the input.  I did say in the past that I was doing a late war Dortch, but I changed my mind at some point to do Mid-War Dortch, shortly after commissioning.  Late war pictures of the Dortch were unavailable.  However, I did find two pictures of her shortly after commissioning.  I chose to base the AA armorment from the picture of Dortch as it left the Phillidelphia naval yard in 1943.  I have these two photos to work from. 

I was originally working on The Sullivans bridge assembly before I decided to switch over to the Tamiya for the 20mm Orlikins. 

Does this make sense given your references?  Or am I mile off?

Semper Fi,

Chris

Just to confirm,   you are doing the Dortch and you are kit mingling the Tamiya and Trumpeter kits.  And you're really working to make it accurate.  Correct?

Check the armament listing at

http://www.destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/armament.html

(I know the table is confusing -- its listed by the sequence the ship came online -- not by number.)

The Dortch is listed as having 10x 40mm guns.   That means 2 twins forward of the bridge (just aft of the 52 mount),  Two twins at the waist, and 1 twin in the raised tub between mounts 53 and 54.   Very late war there was a yard period and she came out with the ultimate anti-air configuration of 2 quads at the waist.

You kitmingled the Tam Fletcher deck with the small (i.e. 20mm) gun tubs with the Trumpeter Square bridge.   You also need the gun tubs from the Trumpeter kit as well as a couple of 40mm twins to go in them.   Splice them onto the Tamiya deck -- or use the Trumpeter forward deckhouse instead of the Tamiya one.  Your option.

Better to tear it out now than to find out about it after the forward deckhouse is assembled onto the hull.

Here's an update.  I'm having fun.  This is what I got done yesterday.

I know it'll need some touch up, but I think I love the way it looks. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

Looks good Chris. The colors look just fine to my eye.

As for the color accuracy, I took the mixing guide from Tamiya's USS Missouri kit. So I realld did nothing aother than copy down what was already written.

All that brass and WM you got going are going to make this look so good when it's done. The bends in the rails you have made look great! Well done.

OK, my paint is turning out well.  I ended up mixing Tamiya paint from Drew's mixing ratios. The colors that turned out aren't exactly to ratio.  Pipettes were used for mixing.  However, I mixed enough to keep myself going for this build.  The hull in the forground is my current USS Dortch.  For contrast I put the old project in the pic, it's in the back.  It's easy to see why I gave up on the former project.  Paint was a big part of it.  However, I'm very happy with the new paint job. 

Here are some more pics of the various parts.  I'm just including them so you guys can tell me what I'm doing wrong, or what I should be thinking about next.  I'm having fun with this, and I'm looking forward to painting sub assemblies and PE this weekend.  

Semper Fi,

Chris

Thanks Drew for taking the effort to look up the mixing info.  I don't know what I should try first, mixing Tamiya Paint or giving Polly Scale another try preppared as you described.  I'm going to do some experimenting. 

Semper Fi,

Chris 

Ok Chris. I finally got the mixes you need for Tamiya paints. (had to remember to do it, sorry, then find the instructions to my Missouri)

Navy Blue - equal parts Royal Blue (X-3) and Medium blue (XF-18) and flat base for sheen

Deck Blue - 4 parts dark Gray (XF-24), 6 parts flat white (XF-2), 3 parts flat blue(XF-8) and one part flat red (XF-7)

 I have never tried to mix them, so I have no idea if they are accurate or not.

One thing you may want to try though. After thinning Polly Scale, add a couple of drops of Future. It should act as a slow drying agent and add a slight sheen to it also. Personally, I have the 155 also and I add two drops of Valejo slow dry to the paint prior to thinning, then thin with 70% isopropyl alcohol. And contrary to popular belief, I have never had a problem with it turning into goo.

Good luck & remember to mix enough to paint two ships, or you know what will happen

Yeah, it is pretty funny how some paints work very well for some set ups and poorly for others.  I don't know why my Airbrush doesn't get along with Polly Scale or Testor MM Acrylics.  It's a Badger 155 Anthem (Dual Action, Internal Mix, Syphon Fed).  I've tried all kinds of air pressures and everything.  It always clogs up on the tip of the brushes needle and causes some nasty spurting.  It will blow by the clog at high pressure with the trigger all the way back, but then I have no control.  It's a good thing I have short hair, it's difficult to pull out. 

I have paint test spots on some scrap strips.  The Polly Scale 5-N Navy Blue and 20-B Weather Deck Blue look so close that they're difficult to tell appart.  Tamiya XF-17 Sea Blue is darker but close to both.  I'm going to keep playing, thanks for the info

Semper Fi,

Chris 

Chris, I can't help you there. I use polly scale just fine and throw out Tamiya. Funny ain't it.

I think I have the mixing for the deck blue. I'll get back to you.

It's time to start painting, and I have another problem.  Hopefully, you guys can help me out.  Ed you've definately been a great help so far.

My problem;  I bought some Polly Scale paint for this build, PS # F505334 Navy Blue 5-N and PS # F505338 Weather Deck Blue 20-B.  Polly Scale (just like its brother Testors MM Acrylic) clogs my airbrush no matter how much thinner I use (and I use the manufacturer recommended Testors).  Tamiya paints get along fine with my airbrush.  They even clean up easily.  I'm giving up on Polly Scale, it's just too hard to work with.  I want to use Tamiya paint.  It has worked well for me for a long time. 

My Question;  What are the best Tamiya colors to use for Navy Blue 5-N and Weather Deck Blue 20-B?  I can do some mixing. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

ridleusmc wrote:

Thanks for pointing those grates out, Ed.  They were horribly too large for scale.  I'm a little emberrassed that I didn't notice them.  In fact, the Tamiya parts may be a little large for scale.  I'm surprised that Tom's or GMM hasn't included these in their PE sets.  I'll go with Tamiya, because they're much, much better than the Trumpeter grates (which are now dust).

No problem. 

The Tam grates are the best choice unless you are going the aftermarket route.   Even then you may have to mix-n-match sets to get the best parts available. 

The grates are in the L'Arsenal Sullivans upgrade/improvement set as PE appliques.

Roger that, 

Those grates have been chopped and sanded.  I'll get some pics up when I glue the Tamiya Grates onto the Trumpeter stacks.  The Trumpeter stacks seem best because they're set up for the same configuration as the Dortch.  Other than those cut outs and the grates, both sets of stacks look the same when assembled. 

Thanks for pointing those grates out, Ed.  They were horribly too large for scale.  I'm a little emberrassed that I didn't notice them.  In fact, the Tamiya parts may be a little large for scale.  I'm surprised that Tom's or GMM hasn't included these in their PE sets.  I'll go with Tamiya, because they're much, much better than the Trumpeter grates (which are now dust). 

Semper Fi,

Chris

ridleusmc wrote:

Just to be clear, you're talking about those grates near the base of the stacks, right?  I may use the Tamiya stacks.  I'll have to cut something to make the searchlight platform on the forward stack fit, but that shouldn't be too bad.

Yes, the grates at the base of the stacks

You could either use the Trump stacks, sand away the grates & use the Tam grates or grates which come with the L'Arsenal upgrade set.

Or you could go with the Tam stacks & grates and notch in a groove.   Use the Trump stacks as templates

Thanks Ed,

Just to be clear, you're talking about those grates near the base of the stacks, right?  I may use the Tamiya stacks.  I'll have to cut something to make the searchlight platform on the forward stack fit, but that shouldn't be too bad. 

I was hoping to get some good work done on the Dortch this weekend, but I may have a problem.  My computer died, and I have a new computer for a very nice price.  However, transfering files and squaring away device drivers may cut into my plastic time.  Maybe I could live without a computer, but then how would I post and read the FS forums?

Semper Fi,

Chris

To my eye the plating on the hull of the Tam Fletcher is fine.   It is not overly heavy and gives the impression that there is some structure there -- not just a smooth surface.

When painted the plate lines recede into the background,  but provide sufficient raised surface that a weathering drybrush application picks them out.

You are going at it correctly,  Work in subassemblies.   Break the work into logical tasks and work on them.   Stop when you are tired,  or move on to a different segment. 

Consider replacing the Trumpeter stacks with the ones from Tamiya.  Or at least sand off those hideous grates and replace them with the grates from the Tam kit.  

I spent a entire weekend detailing the aft superstructure,  adding brass hatches,  wire,  styrene stock, some PE model RR grab bars which make great handrails.   Now on to the mid-ship's deckhouse.