First ship build: HMS Victory

searat12 wrote:

Looks like a pretty good start... However...... I notice that you have painted the decks yellow... You might want to re-think that, and go for something approaching a light wood color......

Yeah like I said I followed the instructions that came with the model and the colors were not correct. I didn't realize that this ship was still around until I had finished putting the hull together. So I stopped so I could do some reseach on the ship before going any further. I don't think going back is going to be much of an option at this point because I would have to redo the lower deck. And that would mean I'd have to dismantle the hull. I was used to doing cars and typically anything goes with those color wise. But thanks for the heads up. it's definitely one of the things that I'll be correcting on my next build. 

Gerarddm wrote:

Wow, most people don't jump into Victory first thing, so buona fortuna to you. You might want to pick up C. Nepean Longridge's definitive book on modeling Victory to help your rigging quest ( and trust me, it is a QUEST).  :-)

Thank you, and thanks for the tip. I've got plenty of time before I start on that(rigging) beast so hopefully I can find a better deal better than $65 on the book.

Here's some work that I was able to get done last night.

the figurehead was a little difficult because it's about the size of a dime, it's not as detailed as the original but it works.

I was able to put in an hour or so on the Victory last night. But I'm running into more snags on the overall quality of the design. I've had to do some small modifications to the parts so that they'd fit right and I had to touch up those areas. and this thing has plenty of small parts. The poop deck and rear panel are giving me some trouble but should have it sorted out by tomorrow or over the weekend.

thanks to all those who have posted and given feed back. I'll keep the pictures coming as I work on it more.

Finally! After days of shaving and test fitting the poop deck and rear panel are finally in place. There are some gaps that I need to sort out but overall it's coming together nicely. I'm starting to loose my faith in the Quality of this kit. The rear section of the ship had quite a bit of warping to contend with so it took some time to get it together.

Thanks to some bad weather over the weekend I was able to put some extra time in to the Victory. All that is left is to finish is the masts, do some touch up work, and tie up the rigging.

JMart wrote:

enemeink - Looking good, keep it up! I am not an expert at photographing models, but maybe shot using a different background? I think the flash reflection off the back is making the yellow more "yellow".

your right on the next set I'll try to find something that's a dull white and snap my pictures from there. Thanks.

Great job! Please keep updating your progress with photos.

Regards, 

It was another great weekend to model. with high winds yesterday it made me want to stay inside and work on this. it's almost done. I still have some more rigging and sails to complete but the overall assembly is done. I think that i might have bit off more than I could chew on the Ratlines but they are coming along. Again I know that not alot of this ship is accurate in the build. I wanted to get my feet wet before I tried to go all in on historical detail. If the rigging that is there is unaccurate it's because I followed the instuctions that came with the ship and did not want to buy the book on rigging it. My Airix Wasa should arrive today and I've been spending some time researching that so it will be better. Now on to the ship.

when I opened up th ebox the first thing that came to mind was that the Ratlines had to go. I didn't like them and they looked terrible. here's what was replaced.

I started tying the cross sections but had to stop because I had been working most of the day yesterday. I'm hoping to have all of the riggings done by the end of the week. This section that is complete is about the size of a dime.

Great job on the model .I'am inspired to start my next build.

rg

Gerarddm wrote:

Um, standing rigging was tarred so that it wouldn't rot. Your standing rigging should be dark, your running rigging light.

the black thread is what was suggested to use and came with the kit. I used the lighter colored thread so I could see what I was doing since it's my first attempt at this sort of thing. But once the standing rigging is complete I'll be giving the Ratlines some flat black to give them the tarred look. Thanks for the feedback I was wondering as to why there was a difference in the rigging.

A little quick terminology (without intending to insult anybody's intelligence).  The rigging of a sailing ship is divided into two general categories:  standing rigging and running rigging.  Standing rigging "stands;" it's set up more-or-less permanently.  It keeps the masts from falling down, and transmits the force of the wind from the sails and yards to the ship's hull, pulling the ship through the water.  Running rigging "runs."  It hauls the yards, gaffs, booms, and other spars, and the sails, around to accommodate the wind and the captain's intentions.

In the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries all rope supplied to the British Royal Navy was, by law, soaked in something called Stockholm tar.  I've never seen Stockholm tar, but I'm reliably informed that it's a rich, medium brown in color.  That's what the running rigging probably looked like.  Most of the standing rigging, in addition to the original soaking, was coated after it was in place with a concoction containing tar and lampblack, which, if it wasn't pure black must have been close.  That's why modelers often use black thread for standing rigging.

There's room for some disagreement about the color of ratlines (which, strictly speaking, are the horizontal ropes running across the shrouds - the vertical ropes).  The one and only purpose of the ratlines is to serve as a ladder for men climbing the masts.  It's been noted that treating the ratlines along with the standing rigging would tend to make them slippery.  Some modelers assert, rather emphatically, that "ratlines were never tarred."  The evidence of old master marine paintings and more modern photographs doesn't seem to support that.  (The "blackening" on the shrouds had to be renewed periodically.  It would be difficult to blacken the shrouds without hitting the ratlines - unless the ratlines were systematically removed, which seems unlikely.)

The H.M.S. Victory website offers a page for modelers (http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=78&Itemid=111).  It describes the ratlines as "natural hemp with a very light tarring."  That makes sense to me - but there's plenty of room for disagreement as to just what it looked like.  (That website, by the way, is a good place for any Victory enthusiast to spend some time.  But take the photos with a grain of salt.  She's rigged with modern synthetic rope, and the people responsible for maintaining her have been forced into lots of compromises with historical accuracy due to problems of funding and practicality.)

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

jtilley wrote:

A little quick terminology (without intending to insult anybody's intelligence).  The rigging of a sailing ship is divided into two general categories:  standing rigging and running rigging.  Standing rigging "stands;" it's set up more-or-less permanently.  It keeps the masts from falling down, and transmits the force of the wind from the sails and yards to the ship's hull, pulling the ship through the water.  Running rigging "runs."  It hauls the yards, gaffs, booms, and other spars, and the sails, around to accommodate the wind and the captain's intentions. In the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries all rope supplied to the British Royal Navy was, by law, soaked in something called Stockholm tar.  I've never seen Stockholm tar, but I'm reliably informed that it's a rich, medium brown in color.  That's what the running rigging probably looked like.  Most of the standing rigging, in addition to the original soaking, was coated after it was in place with a concoction containing tar and lampblack, which, if it wasn't pure black must have been close.  That's why modelers often use black thread for standing rigging. There's room for some disagreement about the color of ratlines (which, strictly speaking, are the horizontal ropes running across the shrouds - the vertical ropes).  The one and only purpose of the ratlines is to serve as a ladder for men climbing the masts.  It's been noted that treating the ratlines along with the standing rigging would tend to make them slippery.  Some modelers assert, rather emphatically, that "ratlines were never tarred."  The evidence of old master marine paintings and more modern photographs doesn't seem to support that.  (The "blackening" on the shrouds had to be renewed periodically.  It would be difficult to blacken the shrouds without hitting the ratlines - unless the ratlines were systematically removed, which seems unlikely.) The H.M.S. Victory website offers a page for modelers (http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=78&Itemid=111).  It describes the ratlines as "natural hemp with a very light tarring."  That makes sense to me - but there's plenty of room for disagreement as to just what it looked like.  (That website, by the way, is a good place for any Victory enthusiast to spend some time.  But take the photos with a grain of salt.  She's rigged with modern synthetic rope, and the people responsible for maintaining her have been forced into lots of compromises with historical accuracy due to problems of funding and practicality.) Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

yeah I found that site about half way through the build. Thanks for the explanation on some of the rigging. I've had to make my own rigging diagrams based off of what other modelers have done on the wooden ships because I didn't want to have to buy a book that is 3 times the price of my kit. I've been trying to find some books on rigging in general but have not been able to find anything that seems substantial. If you have any recomendations please fell free to let me know. Thanks again.

Plans of the Victory and her rigging are to be found - well, all over the place.  I usually start by recommending three books:  The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, by C. Nepean Longridge; Anatomy of the Ship:  The 100-Gun Ship Victory, by John McKay; and H.M.S. Victory:  Construction, Repair, and Restoration (I think I got the title right) by Alan McGowen and John McKay.  Any one of those three will give you at least the basics of the rigging.  Unfortunately you're right about the prices - but if you've got a library within driving distance, maybe it can help.  Used copies of all three can sometimes be found on the web.

An excellent introductory book on the basics of ship modeling in general, including rigging, is George Campbell's old classic The Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay.  It was published almost fifty years ago by Model Shipways, and concentrates primarily on solid-hull wood kits, but the basic information in it is solid and valuable.  Anybody who learns everything in that book will be off to a good start in becoming knowledgable about ship modeling.  Best of all, it's available for free on the web:  http://www.all-model.com/Campbell/5.html

Literally dozens of other books are relevant to this subject, but any of those listed above will get you started.  If I had to pick one dealing specificially with the Victory, it probably would be Longridge; but I recommend Campbell as a first book on ship models and sailing ship technology.

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

Just a quick update for today I added some more rigging last night. I also just wanted to show off the awesome work bench that my wife gave me as an early birthday present.

A quick note about Stockholm tar, it is indeed a dark brown in color (though as Prof Tilley states, lampblack etc was added to make the standing rigging black).  Stockholm tar is used for lots of things on ships, and is a very particular component of 'Marline' (so called because it leaves Stockholm tar on just about everything it touches, 'marring' its appearance), which is a twine used to finish off rope ends, covering splices, etc, etc.  More importantly, the heavy use of Stockholm tar throughout the ship gives old Tall Ships a very distinctive smoky/tarry smell, which is similar to Lapsang Souchon tea.  Once you smell it, you will never mistake it for anything else, and you will immediately associate it with Tall Ships. 

I still use marline (which is also the origin of the word 'marlinespike') for decorative ropework on my boat, and I keep a ball or two of it around for 'atmosphere!'  Stockholm tar is also used by the horsey crowd, who paint it on the hooves of horses as a protective preservative (similar in concept to why it was put on ropes and lines).  Because Stockholm tar (produced in Sweden and the Baltic states from pine pitch) was such an important part of ship maintenance, maintaining supplies of it was critical for the war effort during the age of sail, and wars were actually fought to keep the supply lines to the Baltic open for just this reason.  Here endeth the lesson!

Great bench! I 'inherited" mine when we redid our kitchen.. using the old counter top, great space! You may want to cover the benchwork area with some plastic covering, to keep it more on the clean side. Nice progress on your HMS V...

Thanks for the mini-lesson searat! Always learning around here...cheers, James

It's been a long weekend for me. I had some time off for my b-day but wasn't able to work on the Victory much becuase I had family in town. But I finished it! sadly I ended up using the platic sails because the cloth sails proved to be too heavy for the the tiny masts and caused the riggings to sag. so after some tinkering and sewing all of the sails I ended up scraping the cloth for the originals. lesson learned I guess. Thanks to all those who have lent advise on the rigging and everything else. I've already started my next build so a new build thread will be popping up soon....

Very nice!

I like the look of the sails, and your rigging looks good. I know it goes against convention, but I like seeing sails on ship kits.

Thanks for posting the photos and keeping us abreast of your progress. It's been an inspiration.

Regards,