First ship build: HMS Victory

tankerbuilder

Hey-enemeink!! That is one nice looking build.I have to commend you for taking on such an involved ship for your first of models of things that float! It is true that you have done a bangup job on the yellow paint.It is my impression that first rates(such as the VICTORY) had rust red or some such color(They didn,t want blood spatters showing during battle.)The injuries and maiming caused lots of the red stuff to be spilled.The worst enemy of sailors in those days was splintering and explosive shells exploding close aboard.That was a mess ,I am sure.It doesn,t matter though.You build her the way you want!! If I displayed my CONSTITUTION, I am sure I would get ripped.,I feel the same way about my VICTORY by HELLER.The gun decks on both are rust red and the gun line stripe on the "CONNIE"is not white but an oily grey/white.This I got from looking at tallships in real life.The "CONNIE" and her sisters didn,t have the luxury of long port stays so that kind of stuff would be off/white or even a faded out grey by the time they ported for yard work.So, I paint accordingly.What power magnifier did you use to do that forward shield and decoration with?? Again, great work for a first effort.        Tankerbuilder

I'll have to admit that when i first started modeling ships the idea of weathering never crossed my mind. Even though i built model cars for 20 years (on and off) i never thought of weather, or even added details. I always just built them as they would have looked "new" according to the instructions. It wasn't until i started lurking in the other forum threads and getting the FSM mags that i finally realized there was alot more to building models. I think i was half way through the build when somebody pointed out that the deck was the wrong color. it was at that moment i realized that  some model paint suggestions weren't always correct or practical, but very basic. so when i was building this kit i researched the Wasa for awhile to make sure that i could do a somewhat decent job. though even looking back on the Wasa I wish i had done the deck better.  You should post up pictures of Connie. i have that kit in my stash and would love to see other builds of the same kit.

Hey-enemeink!! That is one nice looking build.I have to commend you for taking on such an involved ship for your first of models of things that float! It is true that you have done a bangup job on the yellow paint.It is my impression that first rates(such as the VICTORY) had rust red or some such color(They didn,t want blood spatters showing during battle.)The injuries and maiming caused lots of the red stuff to be spilled.The worst enemy of sailors in those days was splintering and explosive shells exploding close aboard.That was a mess ,I am sure.It doesn,t matter though.You build her the way you want!! If I displayed my CONSTITUTION, I am sure I would get ripped.,I feel the same way about my VICTORY by HELLER.The gun decks on both are rust red and the gun line stripe on the "CONNIE"is not white but an oily grey/white.This I got from looking at tallships in real life.The "CONNIE" and her sisters didn,t have the luxury of long port stays so that kind of stuff would be off/white or even a faded out grey by the time they ported for yard work.So, I paint accordingly.What power magnifier did you use to do that forward shield and decoration with?? Again, great work for a first effort.        Tankerbuilder

Thankyou for for creating this thred in suport of plastic sailing ship modeling--enemink.

Greetings:

Excellent build! I share your frustration with a new digital camera. I still haven't gotten the knack of using mine yet. My first ship build was the big Revell Constitution. I sure learned a lot during that build to put it mildly. Two books that helped me greatly were Rigging Period Ship Models by Lennarth Petersson. This book clearly shows how the shrouds are set up. Another one was Underhill's Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier which was one of the few books that clearly shows how to do studding sails. What I like about the Underhill book is it deals with wooden and steel hull ship rigging. I would follow Revell's rigging instructions and when a part wasn't clear I'd look it up in this book and lo and behold I'd find so that's where that line ties off. Great book. I've still got several large kits waiting including the Heller Victory but have been putting them off as they just take so long to do the rigging. It took me 9 months of part time work to finish the Constitution. Godd luck on your next build.

Michael Lacey    

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Here's a better picture that shows the sails a little bit better. I used the manual settings on my camera and turned the flash off.

JMart wrote:

nicely done, thanks again for sharing! I think of my first 2-3 builds I came back to the hobby, about 50% of all 'actions" were not used at the end, or discarded or rebuilt/repainted. Its all part of the learning curve, will make your next build that much better! I have not built a sailship in ages, cant give you specific feedback... but I remember reading a long time ago about ways to paint plastic 'sails" so they look more natural, some very specific methods with well thinned paints... sorry cant remeber any details, but they exist! Again thanks for posting and look forward to your next build!

The sails actually look a better in person. I've been meaning to fiddle with the settings on my digital camera to get the back lighting better so that the sails don't look so solid. I've been reading a lot about manual settings etc. So when I can get some better pics i'll post them up. I actually used a light flat tan wash to color the sails and add depth.

Very nice!

I like the look of the sails, and your rigging looks good. I know it goes against convention, but I like seeing sails on ship kits.

Thanks for posting the photos and keeping us abreast of your progress. It's been an inspiration.

Regards, 

It's been a long weekend for me. I had some time off for my b-day but wasn't able to work on the Victory much becuase I had family in town. But I finished it! sadly I ended up using the platic sails because the cloth sails proved to be too heavy for the the tiny masts and caused the riggings to sag. so after some tinkering and sewing all of the sails I ended up scraping the cloth for the originals. lesson learned I guess. Thanks to all those who have lent advise on the rigging and everything else. I've already started my next build so a new build thread will be popping up soon....

Great bench! I 'inherited" mine when we redid our kitchen.. using the old counter top, great space! You may want to cover the benchwork area with some plastic covering, to keep it more on the clean side. Nice progress on your HMS V...

Thanks for the mini-lesson searat! Always learning around here...cheers, James

A quick note about Stockholm tar, it is indeed a dark brown in color (though as Prof Tilley states, lampblack etc was added to make the standing rigging black).  Stockholm tar is used for lots of things on ships, and is a very particular component of 'Marline' (so called because it leaves Stockholm tar on just about everything it touches, 'marring' its appearance), which is a twine used to finish off rope ends, covering splices, etc, etc.  More importantly, the heavy use of Stockholm tar throughout the ship gives old Tall Ships a very distinctive smoky/tarry smell, which is similar to Lapsang Souchon tea.  Once you smell it, you will never mistake it for anything else, and you will immediately associate it with Tall Ships. 

I still use marline (which is also the origin of the word 'marlinespike') for decorative ropework on my boat, and I keep a ball or two of it around for 'atmosphere!'  Stockholm tar is also used by the horsey crowd, who paint it on the hooves of horses as a protective preservative (similar in concept to why it was put on ropes and lines).  Because Stockholm tar (produced in Sweden and the Baltic states from pine pitch) was such an important part of ship maintenance, maintaining supplies of it was critical for the war effort during the age of sail, and wars were actually fought to keep the supply lines to the Baltic open for just this reason.  Here endeth the lesson!

Just a quick update for today I added some more rigging last night. I also just wanted to show off the awesome work bench that my wife gave me as an early birthday present.

Plans of the Victory and her rigging are to be found - well, all over the place.  I usually start by recommending three books:  The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, by C. Nepean Longridge; Anatomy of the Ship:  The 100-Gun Ship Victory, by John McKay; and H.M.S. Victory:  Construction, Repair, and Restoration (I think I got the title right) by Alan McGowen and John McKay.  Any one of those three will give you at least the basics of the rigging.  Unfortunately you're right about the prices - but if you've got a library within driving distance, maybe it can help.  Used copies of all three can sometimes be found on the web.

An excellent introductory book on the basics of ship modeling in general, including rigging, is George Campbell's old classic The Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay.  It was published almost fifty years ago by Model Shipways, and concentrates primarily on solid-hull wood kits, but the basic information in it is solid and valuable.  Anybody who learns everything in that book will be off to a good start in becoming knowledgable about ship modeling.  Best of all, it's available for free on the web:  http://www.all-model.com/Campbell/5.html

Literally dozens of other books are relevant to this subject, but any of those listed above will get you started.  If I had to pick one dealing specificially with the Victory, it probably would be Longridge; but I recommend Campbell as a first book on ship models and sailing ship technology.

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

jtilley wrote:

A little quick terminology (without intending to insult anybody's intelligence).  The rigging of a sailing ship is divided into two general categories:  standing rigging and running rigging.  Standing rigging "stands;" it's set up more-or-less permanently.  It keeps the masts from falling down, and transmits the force of the wind from the sails and yards to the ship's hull, pulling the ship through the water.  Running rigging "runs."  It hauls the yards, gaffs, booms, and other spars, and the sails, around to accommodate the wind and the captain's intentions. In the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries all rope supplied to the British Royal Navy was, by law, soaked in something called Stockholm tar.  I've never seen Stockholm tar, but I'm reliably informed that it's a rich, medium brown in color.  That's what the running rigging probably looked like.  Most of the standing rigging, in addition to the original soaking, was coated after it was in place with a concoction containing tar and lampblack, which, if it wasn't pure black must have been close.  That's why modelers often use black thread for standing rigging. There's room for some disagreement about the color of ratlines (which, strictly speaking, are the horizontal ropes running across the shrouds - the vertical ropes).  The one and only purpose of the ratlines is to serve as a ladder for men climbing the masts.  It's been noted that treating the ratlines along with the standing rigging would tend to make them slippery.  Some modelers assert, rather emphatically, that "ratlines were never tarred."  The evidence of old master marine paintings and more modern photographs doesn't seem to support that.  (The "blackening" on the shrouds had to be renewed periodically.  It would be difficult to blacken the shrouds without hitting the ratlines - unless the ratlines were systematically removed, which seems unlikely.) The H.M.S. Victory website offers a page for modelers (http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=78&Itemid=111).  It describes the ratlines as "natural hemp with a very light tarring."  That makes sense to me - but there's plenty of room for disagreement as to just what it looked like.  (That website, by the way, is a good place for any Victory enthusiast to spend some time.  But take the photos with a grain of salt.  She's rigged with modern synthetic rope, and the people responsible for maintaining her have been forced into lots of compromises with historical accuracy due to problems of funding and practicality.) Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

yeah I found that site about half way through the build. Thanks for the explanation on some of the rigging. I've had to make my own rigging diagrams based off of what other modelers have done on the wooden ships because I didn't want to have to buy a book that is 3 times the price of my kit. I've been trying to find some books on rigging in general but have not been able to find anything that seems substantial. If you have any recomendations please fell free to let me know. Thanks again.

A little quick terminology (without intending to insult anybody's intelligence).  The rigging of a sailing ship is divided into two general categories:  standing rigging and running rigging.  Standing rigging "stands;" it's set up more-or-less permanently.  It keeps the masts from falling down, and transmits the force of the wind from the sails and yards to the ship's hull, pulling the ship through the water.  Running rigging "runs."  It hauls the yards, gaffs, booms, and other spars, and the sails, around to accommodate the wind and the captain's intentions.

In the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries all rope supplied to the British Royal Navy was, by law, soaked in something called Stockholm tar.  I've never seen Stockholm tar, but I'm reliably informed that it's a rich, medium brown in color.  That's what the running rigging probably looked like.  Most of the standing rigging, in addition to the original soaking, was coated after it was in place with a concoction containing tar and lampblack, which, if it wasn't pure black must have been close.  That's why modelers often use black thread for standing rigging.

There's room for some disagreement about the color of ratlines (which, strictly speaking, are the horizontal ropes running across the shrouds - the vertical ropes).  The one and only purpose of the ratlines is to serve as a ladder for men climbing the masts.  It's been noted that treating the ratlines along with the standing rigging would tend to make them slippery.  Some modelers assert, rather emphatically, that "ratlines were never tarred."  The evidence of old master marine paintings and more modern photographs doesn't seem to support that.  (The "blackening" on the shrouds had to be renewed periodically.  It would be difficult to blacken the shrouds without hitting the ratlines - unless the ratlines were systematically removed, which seems unlikely.)

The H.M.S. Victory website offers a page for modelers (http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=78&Itemid=111).  It describes the ratlines as "natural hemp with a very light tarring."  That makes sense to me - but there's plenty of room for disagreement as to just what it looked like.  (That website, by the way, is a good place for any Victory enthusiast to spend some time.  But take the photos with a grain of salt.  She's rigged with modern synthetic rope, and the people responsible for maintaining her have been forced into lots of compromises with historical accuracy due to problems of funding and practicality.)

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

Gerarddm wrote:

Um, standing rigging was tarred so that it wouldn't rot. Your standing rigging should be dark, your running rigging light.

the black thread is what was suggested to use and came with the kit. I used the lighter colored thread so I could see what I was doing since it's my first attempt at this sort of thing. But once the standing rigging is complete I'll be giving the Ratlines some flat black to give them the tarred look. Thanks for the feedback I was wondering as to why there was a difference in the rigging.

Great job on the model .I'am inspired to start my next build.

rg

It was another great weekend to model. with high winds yesterday it made me want to stay inside and work on this. it's almost done. I still have some more rigging and sails to complete but the overall assembly is done. I think that i might have bit off more than I could chew on the Ratlines but they are coming along. Again I know that not alot of this ship is accurate in the build. I wanted to get my feet wet before I tried to go all in on historical detail. If the rigging that is there is unaccurate it's because I followed the instuctions that came with the ship and did not want to buy the book on rigging it. My Airix Wasa should arrive today and I've been spending some time researching that so it will be better. Now on to the ship.

when I opened up th ebox the first thing that came to mind was that the Ratlines had to go. I didn't like them and they looked terrible. here's what was replaced.

I started tying the cross sections but had to stop because I had been working most of the day yesterday. I'm hoping to have all of the riggings done by the end of the week. This section that is complete is about the size of a dime.

Great job! Please keep updating your progress with photos.

Regards, 

JMart wrote:

enemeink - Looking good, keep it up! I am not an expert at photographing models, but maybe shot using a different background? I think the flash reflection off the back is making the yellow more "yellow".

your right on the next set I'll try to find something that's a dull white and snap my pictures from there. Thanks.