Greetings from Calgary (Space Shuttle Discussion)

Hey Jchurch,

Welcome. I'm always interested in people doing things with Space Shuttles... Are you doing the cargo bay? How are you going to tackle the tiles? Which kit are you using? Revell or Monogram?

Domi

Welcome aboard!

I'm working on the Monogram kit, which has and does still require alot of modification to get it accurate. The delema with the tiles is two fold, I was already well into the project when I decided that it just wasn't gonna cut it, I am now forced to try delicate work on an almost fully assembled kit, which makes handling a chore in itself, I entend to scribe in the tiles but have not yet decided on how I'm going to make some form of template to act as a guide, I picked up Drendel's "Space Shuttle Walkaround" which has some very impressive pictures as well as a fairly accurate layout of the tiles, now I just have to get it up to 1/72 and start scratchin' oh these tasks we beset upon ourselves. I'm pretty much going to toss the mission packages that came with the kit and build my own. The Canadarm is just sad not even really close to scale, I'm not really sure just what sort of package will be in there, but you can be sure it'll have a docking port. My major problem right now is I can't do any work!
(check out "Whats on the bench") How about yourself have you done a Shuttle? What are you working on now?

Well, to be honest, my Shuttle kit has been waiting for more things to be done to it for 2 years now. It's always at the back of my mind though, because I just love that machine and do want to have the kit in my collection someday. I too have the Monogram kit, and yes there is some work needed to get a good replica. I read that mixing both the Revell and Monogram kit parts helps, but haven't yet decided to go that way. In fact, what I want is to detail the cargo bay and I find it really hard to get enough reference about any particular mission that interests me. Always a view missing, or else! The tiles are a big problem for a kit that size. I had read that tiny bits of tape could do a good job in replicating the whole effect. But just thinking of the number of tiles to add to this monster of a kit makes me ill... So far, the only shuttle I've ever completed is the Hasegawa Egg-Shuttle (the caricature kit, back in the 80s), to which I added 'egg' shaped boosters and ET, the whole thing displayed on a plate. It was fun and cute. I've also had the idea of doing the Hasegawa kit in 1/200. It is rather nice, and would not require as many details as THE BIG ONE...

Other than this dream model, I'm busy with lots of small scale AFVs, an Il-76, a Macchi MC-202, a 727-100, a Junkers G38, and a Caudron racer, but who knows when any of those planes will actually be completed!

Keep in touch. I really want to see how you're getting on with this Shuttle!

Here's my Egg-Shuttle...



This was done 15 years ago....

DJ

Too cool! I've seen a few of these in the local shops, this is the first shuttle I.ve, seen most were fighters. I don,t have any pics of my work or the capabilitie to put them up for that matter, my lattest finished piece is hanging over my head. A Romulan Warbird, drilling out every single window took some time! That was two years ago and pace on my shuttle has been slow, but you and this site are giving me inspiration or more aptly, a kick in the butt to finish off my work bench, I need some way of making it cat proof without constantly disassembling my space every time I need to stop, seeing all this good work out there can be a little frustrating, GS-2003 has some real nice work, very impressive!

Madd Dawg!

Yes, I wish I had bought all of those eggs back in the 80's... My favourite was the Blackbird, but could never find it in the shops... I'm sure that Romulan ship took a long time in the making. Don't be too frustrated from seeing what you feel are better models than what you can do. It took me a long while to get decent looking models. In fact it took me joining a model club to see what was possible. Nowadays, with sites such as this one, things are way easier, and looking at mags also helps. Well, as I said before, keep in touch.

DJ, that is hilarious - in a good way of course!

Thanks for posting that pic. I've never seen anything like that before. You said there were others, besides the space shuttle?! Were they all made by Hasegawa?

Yeah, although some were re-released by other companies... You can see them all at

http://modelbox.free.fr/dossiers/Eggs_P/index.html

including some out of this world conversion jobs..! The site is in French, but the pics speak for themselves!

Domi

Scribing all those tiles? Are you sure you want to do that? The reason I say that is that I'm of the belief that a model should have a scale look. Tiles on a shuttle are so tight and small that unless you are right next to the actual bird, you're not going to see the joints. If you were looking at the shuttle from a distance, in this case some 50 yards or more, would you see all those individual tiles? More importantly would you see the giant seams that would be reproduced by scribing? I'm not that familar with the kit, but something to consider. I wonder if you could paint in different shades here and there to give the appearance of replaced tiles? Even that would have to be pretty subtle. This is a tough problem. My guess is that producing tiles might not even be realistic until you got up into 1/48 scale or larger. Good luck with your project.

You might be right David, but the size of that 1/72 shuttle requires something to be done about the tiles. If not, the model will look WAY to clean and bland....

Place the model against a picture of the shuttle that's just about the same size and the pic will show off a lot of tile details, including -albeit you can't read them - the tiles' code... Although I've never seen a shuttle in real, it's surface looks pretty rough.

To DJ & David

Actually your both right!. Scribing all those tiles in IS going to be, lets say tedious for lack of a better term, But in 1/72 scale the model is way to clean, something must be done and yes the scribe lines most likely will be out of scale unless you have a lite touch, but I don't think it will be that noticeble. If you go to the nasa website and look up some jpg' s on the Atlantis specifically you can find some very nice and VERY large files. They were taken on the tarmac just as she was coming out after a major refit, some very good close ups of the under belly and sides, It was because of these pictures I noticed alot of inadequacies in the model, and being a Millwright by trade and a semi-artist by nature I took the harder road. I think my middle name should be meticulus.If you look closely you notice there is a definite pattern of major and minor blocks, following this should speed up the process some, painting in some blocks to give a new tile look is a good idea as well especially toward the bottom nose area, the hot plasma scorches this area to and almost battleship grey colour, and if you drag this back in long streaks like the trail left by a bad broom, and the paint in a few new tiles would look superp and not as hard as one might expect. I did an Enterprise D about ten years ago and painted in the light/dark pattern as well as the windows it was time consuming but my results took a first place ribbon at a local show!
Sorry for the long winded responses guys, It's been along time since I've been at my bench, and finally being able to BS with some one about it is just as satisfing.
Onward and upward Madd Dawg

I started searching around the web to see what others had to say about the kit and tiles. Some of the posts I saw said that the kit has tiles etched in. Did they change the kit? Or is the tile effort on the kit pathetic?

This may sound strange, but I'm wondering if you could find some art work of the shuttle (photos or print) out there that could be converted into a decal sheet using a scanner and printer? Then perhaps you could peace together some of the odd shapes? Thinking out loud which often times leads to too much work

Good luck. It's an interesting project so I'll keep watching for posts on this one.
Dave

This idea of printing decal is a good one, I think. It would be worth trying it out... As I said, the tile pattern itself is a problem, but each idividual tile also wear a serial number (in black on while tiles and in white on black ones, and having to cope with that as well as the tiles is mind boggling.

Having said that, I have a book about modeling Shuttles where the guy used surgical tape, lots of tiny bits of it, to replicate the tile pattern (or at least something that looks like it anyway) and the model is stunning. And that was at 1/144...

Don't remind me about the black and white numbers I'm still working on that one, the real shuttle is littered with them .

I'm building the monogram kit, which is actually quite smooth, Tho I've never seen one open I'm told the revell kit is much more detailed and does have the tiles somewhat, I hope Mr. DJ can back me up on this one I'm not up on the who's kit is best and what to look for kinda stuff, for me if I like the kit and the price is right thats all it takes. Actually if you pick up Lou Drendals "Space Shuttle The Walkaround", he has a good lay out of the tiles and are very accurate in comparison to his photos. I like the idea of the decal, I had planned on taking the picture from the book and blowing it up on a copier until it fits the model. But because the picture is flat and the model is three dimensional, the copy would become distorted on the curves and angles and be unuseable. Now if I take some frisket paper and wrap... there I go thinking again...!

DJ whats the name of that book and is it still available? Scouring the net for jpgs has gotten dreary and I have found there is a lack of decent shuttle pics in most books, except for orbital shots that is, good close ups are few.

Keep yer stick on the ice.... MD

If I'm not mistaken, the tiling on the Revell kit is first of all raised and then overscale, so you'd still need to remove it, and do your own.... Maybe the way to do the copying thing is to draw blocks of tiling, print them onto decal sheet then cut them up into chunks to fit the body of the orbiter...

The book I was telling you about is called... Space Shuttle (!), and it's the 3rd booklet in the 'Space in Miniature' series; it's written by Michael J Mackowski. It's from 1991 and I only have an address to contact him: 1621 Waterwood Lane, St Louis, Missouri MI63146-4827

I think it's a must if you model an early mission (before STS40).

I purchased, yesterday, the DK/Smithsonian book to celebrate the first 20years of the Space Shuttle. It's a great book for details of the orbiter.

Thanks for the refs, be checking them out.

Doing the decal thing might be the way to go, would definatly have decals figured out by the time your finished! Coincidently, do you think this might be the reason they were left off the kit in the first place...? LOL

There must be alot of pictures of the Columbia in your book , there were many suttle changes to the fleet after her, the tile pattern is more efficient and a little less haphazard if you follow me. Many black tiles were changed to white especially around the "OMS" pods and the vertical stabilizer has been rounded off at the tip, and some tiles that were on the bay doors and sides have been replaced with what can only be described as thick white canvass? I presume these areas don't get as hot as expected on reentry.

Madd Dawg Out.

That's the problem when you want to model a shuttle.... There are very often little cosmetic changes to the orbiter (but also the ETs) with each new mission. Obviously, the cargo is different every time, and therefore finding enough shots and info showing you all the changes, details, cargo for any particular mission is next to impossible to assemble...

I'm new to this board, and was looking for anything relating to models of Columbia. I found the 1/72 Revell shuttle model in a local shop today, but I couldn't tell if it had decals for Columbia included or if it just has the markings for Endeavor (I think that was the shuttle shown on the box cover, or possibly Discovery). Do you know if it has the Columbia decals. I grew up with the space program and love it... I also live in the Dallas area, so the explosion of Columbia last weekend overhead makes me want to build a nice model of the ship. But y'all are scaring me some with all this talk of tile simulation, though!

There's been several re-issues of both rhe 1/72 Revell and Monogram kits and you might find that the decals changed over time, particularly after the introduction of Endeavour... I'm not sure if there are any recent re-issues with the NASA meatball logos, and other cosmetic changes of the post-Challenger era... Maybe other here know..?

To the FSM staff, I wonder if it might not be worth moving this discussion to the Real Space Forum...

QUOTE: Originally posted by djmodels1999 To the FSM staff, I wonder if it might not be worth moving this discussion to the Real Space Forum...

I went ahead and moved it to the Space Forum as you requested. In light of recent events, this may become a popular discussion thread with many people wanting to do something to remember the Columbia. I modified the subject/title to add some text indicating it was about the Space Shuttle. JChurch - I hope you don't mind I made the change. If you want to change the subject/title you can edit your original post at anytime.

Many thanks for this!

If you are looking for some detail parts for the Shuttle here are a couple of links:
http://www.realspacemodels.com/html/catalog1.htm
http://www.realspacemodels.com/html/decals.htm
I seem to remember seeing decals for the tile a few years ago but I am not sure if they are available still. I have built a couple of shuttle models for the local planetarium and I am thinking about building another, but I am not sure if I want to take that big of a project on again. Hope these links help.

Wow! Go away for a couple days and look what happens

I have no problem what so ever the changes you have made, I have to admit I'm alittle pleased
with myself that my project has has prompted a thread of its own. Being able to not only swap model ideas
with someone, but to consult on a specific model itself is very helpful. Maybe we could call it the model space shuttle
support group.LOL

Thanks for the refs dnd I will be sure to check them out.

Hi sspoonts. Yes, it does have the Columbia name on the sheet it even has the Enterprise for one so inclined,
BTW, my scanning over of pictures and drawings has led me to believe that the detail on the model is actually based on the Enterprise which as you know was the prototype and never actually had tiles on the ship, so any markings were only simulations of where the tiles would be (they were still under development themselves) and bears little resemblence to the actual configuration. Once I realized this it seem to make a little more sense. I don't know if you want to go to the point of removing
all detail and starting anew, it depends on the level of accuracy you want to achieve, myself, I'm probably to meticulous for my
own good. All I can say is, If I figure out a way of doing it easily I will be sure to post it here. As a word of encouragement just remember "The greater the task, the greater the reward of accomplishment" till then I help any way I can.

Hey djmodels, I read your comments under the feedback forum and I really liked the way you said you have made a few
friends on this site, I would like to be counted among them, I don't think I will be able to find the one book you speak of
you obviously have a scanner I was wondering if maybe you would like to swap e-mail addresses I wouldn't mind discussing this
off line, what do you think?

Madd Dawg.

Hi Madd Dawg,

no problem discussing Shuttles and more and sending you, via scanner and the net, this booklet. Just e-mail me your address and I'll get started

djmodels1999@aol.com

This is just too cool

The first time I picked up an issue of FSM I was impressed, The articles were great (tho' would like to see more sci-fi), the
pictures actually showed detail and my favorite section the hints and tips, was always a help. I have learned a great deal
over the years. But I never would have believed that it would lead to a hopefully long time correspondance across the big
pond, as we call it here in Canada! FSM I thank you. This site may be the best thing that has happened to the hobbie ever since
the air brush. It may very well be the injection it needed. Our numbers have grown to over seven thousand in a matter of a few
months! Can you imagine in a few years? Just think of it, all the model builders of the world gathered on one website. Talk about
your masse united, the model makers would have a direct link to their consumers ,then maybe we all would get that one kit we want most of all. (like a Yamaha XS-650 twin). " Well Done FSM" Who ever came up with the idea at Kalmbach should get a really "Big" Attaboy! Now if only we could get our perspective governments to work like this?
I look forward to our correspondance dj, from reading your other responses here, I think we may have similar interists, always
wanted a pen pal when I was a kid.

May your eyes keep you on the right path, and your feet never falter.... Madd Dawg

Hi All,

The good folks at www.realspcaemodels.com have an excellent set of Shuttle decals and a seperate sheet of accurately colored meatballs. Really good stuff!

Nice to hear that the Columbia disaster has inspired a desire to commemorate it in scale. My recently completed old Revel Shuttle Stack/Launch Tower model of Columbia in 1/144 was accepted last week by the Museum of Flight at Boeing Field as part of their permanent memorial. I'm very proud - and very sad.

Scott

Great stuff, Scott. How did you deal with the tile 'problem', then?

Thanks for the realspace reference WSgarside, I logged into their site, they have some very
impressive stuff. If your a space history buff they definatly want checking out, the prices aren't to bad
alittle on the steep side for me after the exchange, but I still ordered their cargo bay kit and cd-rom as
well as the updated decals for the 1/72 kit, should be here in a couple of weeks

Thanks again

Madd Dawg