Questions about Bare Metal Foil

JohnnyK

I usually do each panel one at a time. BMF has a natural grain. By doing each panel one at a time I can rotate the grain. Below is one of the wings on my B-29. Each panel was done one at a time. It takes a long time I have been working on the B-29 off and on for almost a year. I have used 8 sheets of BMF. Still not finished.

 

 

But it will look fantastic, well worth the effort, based on your pictures

I hope to have something after December . Marcus Mc Bean is coming to the Museum to tutor me in just that . Then , Maybe , all of you will get to see some of my stuff .T.B.

I usually do each panel one at a time. BMF has a natural grain. By doing each panel one at a time I can rotate the grain. Below is one of the wings on my B-29. Each panel was done one at a time. It takes a long time I have been working on the B-29 off and on for almost a year. I have used 8 sheets of BMF. Still not finished.

Johnny, and others- your planes look great! Do you just do one panel at a time, or can you do multiple panels, for example when you are covering a flat surface like a wing?

Silver

In respect to the metal foil system.It takes years of practice to master , let alone the construction prep involved.Results are great.

 

In respect to the metal foil system.It takes years of practice to master , let alone the construction prep involved.Results are great.

Tanker - Builder

MrStecks ;

 Are you okay ? It's been awhile since you posted . Did the foil ever get started ? By the way , I am foiling a P-47  "Bubbletop" to represent Gabby Gabreski's plane . Hope to hear from you soon .  T.B.

 

Do you have any photos of the P-47 that you could share?

bartenational

Thanks for a great thread topic, I visit the Wright Patterson Aif Force Base Museum once a year & am struck by how wrinkley all the planes are. This is almost impossible to replicate on a scale model. If you even wanted to. but here is a photo showing the aluminum nose of a bomber for reference. Obviously it is a matter of preference. 

just food for thought!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iMJLceCF3lsd87fP2

 

Attached is a reference shot of the B-24 I took a few years ago, It is very flat almost gray looking in real life. but that can make a boring model... It also looks wrinkley especially around the waist gunner window... again I think what you are doing looks amazing! this is just for reference, getting caught up in "reality" can make people quit this hobby, but that should not be the goal in my opinion ... 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1Jh02RzWvjSbkcyYklOb0lfeUk/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1Jh02RzWvjSbkcyYklOb0lfeUk/view?usp=sharing

Thanks for a great thread topic, I visit the Wright Patterson Aif Force Base Museum once a year & am struck by how wrinkley all the planes are. This is almost impossible to replicate on a scale model. If you even wanted to. but here is a photo showing the aluminum nose of a bomber for reference. Obviously it is a matter of preference. 

just food for thought!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iMJLceCF3lsd87fP2

MrStecks ;

 Are you okay ? It's been awhile since you posted . Did the foil ever get started ? By the way , I am foiling a P-47  "Bubbletop" to represent Gabby Gabreski's plane . Hope to hear from you soon .  T.B.

Hey All, thanks for continuing the discussion while I've been absent dealing with real-life issues.  Lots of good info here, that I am grateful to have. 

This is going to be a hellish week for me at work, and I have family coming to visit this weekend.  Probably won't do anything at the bench until next week! 

Cheers, Mark

Tanker - Builder

 Firstly  , Mark ;

 Wash your bare metal plane gently with Dawn Clear and warm water , Wipe dry with a soft cotton cloth . Burnish with that cloth giving a final shine .

 Now apply your Decals . Then Clearcoat it with a semi Gloss or Gloss-coat of MM Boyd's clear . ( it doesn't yellow  ). As far as durability  .The first plane I did was a Revell Airliner for a dio .That plane is now thirty years old .

 The foil ? It looks like I did it this week . Has any fallen off or curled at the edges ? No .

 Remember this though , You MUST burnish slowly and carefully . Do NOT hurry the job . I don't even have trouble with the metal panels blending properly at the wing roots . The fairing Can be done in one piece .

 The trick here is to carefully look at the foil , It does have a grain ! This is from the weighted forming rollers taking it to this thin state . Then install the fairing in a direction that lets the grain go from toward the nose to the tail .

 Burnish GENTLY with a soft cloth rolled into a Ball after you have it all down tight . Go over it with a rounded Amuminum Hamdle that is glass smooth Gently bringing a higher shine to it .Then burnish one more time with the cloth .

 If you are not using Tamiya or one of the painters tapes then run the tape through your fingers gently before applying it . Don't do this heavily . Just a nice gentle firm pull .The tape Will seal well and it won't pull the foil off if when you remove it , If you fold it back on itself and pull gently .

 Oh ! Before I finish , I found out about the extra shine from aluminum being used in burnishing . I was burnishing the ends of a model car bumper where the seams had been removed . I wanted this to be absolutely NOT Noticeable .

   After using the side of one end of a NEW X-Acto handle it shone way better than I expected and the foil was not even noticeable at the edges . Then I rounded a number one handle and polished it till it was glass smooth .This has worked as a finishing foil tool now for some years .

 

Thanks for the tips TB, I appreciate it.  All signs are pointing towards using Bare Metal Foil on this project, but I'm still testing. 

JohnnyK

 

 

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Those kits look great... if you're looking for the new and restored look. In reality, most bare metal look aircrafts don't look like that during WW2 or while in active service. Yeah, they keep them clean and all but certainly not shiny. I don't care for the foil method because to me, it looks unrealistic. Each to his own. 

 

 

 

I agree, each to his own. I also think that not every model needs to look like a beat-up WWII airplane. In last month's edition of FineScale Model it was discussed that over weathering of  planes and tanks has gotten a bit out of hand.  The following are two of my models. The B-17 looks like a beat-up bomber and the B-24 was painted with Testors' Metalizer. I like the B-17 because it looks like it's been around the block a few times, but it doesn't look over weathered. I think that the B-24 looks okay, but it still looks like a painted model. I am considering buying another B-24 and using Bare Metal Foil on it because I do not like the painted look. Yes, you can call me obsessive. 

 

For some reason, a lot of modelers get really riled up when I post photos of my BMF airplanes. There was a guy on the ARC Air website that really reamed me out for using BMF. He told me that he hated my models and that I should stop modeling. Talk about nuts!

I just think that using products like Alclad or Testors' Metalizer paints do not make for a realistic NMF (my opinion). The following is a photo of two of my F-86 models. The one on the left is finished with Testors' Metalizer Aluminum and the one on the left is BMF. The one on the left does not look shiny, but it doesn't look like real aluminum. It just looks like a painted surface. The one on the right looks like a real metal surface because it is real metal.

Following are two photos that I found on the Internet of F-104 planes models (these are not my models). They were painted with a NMF paint.  Both are well done models, but neither model looks like a real NMF because they were painted. Plus, IMHO, the panel lines are over accentuated. Just my opinion.

It is not possible, IMHO, to duplicate the subtlties of real metal with paint. Following is a photo of a real F-104. Checkout the appearance of the metal. It is not possible to duplicate that with paint. 

 

Following is a close up of my F-104. Notice the subtle panel lines and the "grain' of the metal panels. I do not think that it is shiny at all. It just looks like a clean plane with a metal finish.

Just one my thing. My F-86 is very shiny because I tried to duplicate a restored F-86. The top photo is a photo of a restored F-86 and and the second photo is my model.

Now that a got that off my chest I feel better!!!!!

Back to my first statement, "I agree, each to his own."  If a modeler likes using Alclad or Testors' Metalize to duplicate a NMF finish, more power to him/her. If someone likes to use BMF, more power to him or her. All that really matters is that they enjoy themselves.

By the way BlackSheepTwoOneFour, can you post some photos of your NMF airplanes? I would like to see them, maybe I can learn something new.

 

All your birds look awesome.  I am trying to build this P-47 as a restored plane, so I'm beginning to think the Bare Metal Foil is the only way to get it shiny enough.  Still testing other options though. 

Last night I e-mailed Randy Mason, the owner of Bare Metal Foil. I asked him  how long the adhesive is expected to last. He said that his father, the original owner of BMF, invented BMF about 40 years ago because he was looking for a more realistic way to obtain a natural metal finish on airplanes.  Remember back then there was no Alclad or Testors' Metalizer paint. Randy sent me the following photos of airplanes that his father made about 40 years ago. As you can see the BMF is still sticking to the models.

 Firstly  , Mark ;

 Wash your bare metal plane gently with Dawn Clear and warm water , Wipe dry with a soft cotton cloth . Burnish with that cloth giving a final shine .

 Now apply your Decals . Then Clearcoat it with a semi Gloss or Gloss-coat of MM Boyd's clear . ( it doesn't yellow  ). As far as durability  .The first plane I did was a Revell Airliner for a dio .That plane is now thirty years old .

 The foil ? It looks like I did it this week . Has any fallen off or curled at the edges ? No .

 Remember this though , You MUST burnish slowly and carefully . Do NOT hurry the job . I don't even have trouble with the metal panels blending properly at the wing roots . The fairing Can be done in one piece .

 The trick here is to carefully look at the foil , It does have a grain ! This is from the weighted forming rollers taking it to this thin state . Then install the fairing in a direction that lets the grain go from toward the nose to the tail .

 Burnish GENTLY with a soft cloth rolled into a Ball after you have it all down tight . Go over it with a rounded Amuminum Hamdle that is glass smooth Gently bringing a higher shine to it .Then burnish one more time with the cloth .

 If you are not using Tamiya or one of the painters tapes then run the tape through your fingers gently before applying it . Don't do this heavily . Just a nice gentle firm pull .The tape Will seal well and it won't pull the foil off if when you remove it , If you fold it back on itself and pull gently .

 Oh ! Before I finish , I found out about the extra shine from aluminum being used in burnishing . I was burnishing the ends of a model car bumper where the seams had been removed . I wanted this to be absolutely NOT Noticeable .

   After using the side of one end of a NEW X-Acto handle it shone way better than I expected and the foil was not even noticeable at the edges . Then I rounded a number one handle and polished it till it was glass smooth .This has worked as a finishing foil tool now for some years .

Retired In Kalifornia

Per their website, Bare Metal Foil has been on the market 47 years, do folks here still have models made with the stuff from decades ago? How's it holding up?

Given my age won't live long to see how any model I've made with the stuff has held up say 30 years from now, way short of that I'd love to see photos of old models from folks here how the self-adhensives have held up.

Also, and this is important, can Bare Metal Foil be masked for spray painting over?

 

I have never had good luck masking BMF. The tape tends to pull up the foil.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Those kits look great... if you're looking for the new and restored look. In reality, most bare metal look aircrafts don't look like that during WW2 or while in active service. Yeah, they keep them clean and all but certainly not shiny. I don't care for the foil method because to me, it looks unrealistic. Each to his own. 

I agree, each to his own. I also think that not every model needs to look like a beat-up WWII airplane. In last month's edition of FineScale Model it was discussed that over weathering of  planes and tanks has gotten a bit out of hand.  The following are two of my models. The B-17 looks like a beat-up bomber and the B-24 was painted with Testors' Metalizer. I like the B-17 because it looks like it's been around the block a few times, but it doesn't look over weathered. I think that the B-24 looks okay, but it still looks like a painted model. I am considering buying another B-24 and using Bare Metal Foil on it because I do not like the painted look. Yes, you can call me obsessive. 

For some reason, a lot of modelers get really riled up when I post photos of my BMF airplanes. There was a guy on the ARC Air website that really reamed me out for using BMF. He told me that he hated my models and that I should stop modeling. Talk about nuts!

I just think that using products like Alclad or Testors' Metalizer paints do not make for a realistic NMF (my opinion). The following is a photo of two of my F-86 models. The one on the left is finished with Testors' Metalizer Aluminum and the one on the left is BMF. The one on the left does not look shiny, but it doesn't look like real aluminum. It just looks like a painted surface. The one on the right looks like a real metal surface because it is real metal.

Following are two photos that I found on the Internet of F-104 planes models (these are not my models). They were painted with a NMF paint.  Both are well done models, but neither model looks like a real NMF because they were painted. Plus, IMHO, the panel lines are over accentuated. Just my opinion.

It is not possible, IMHO, to duplicate the subtlties of real metal with paint. Following is a photo of a real F-104. Checkout the appearance of the metal. It is not possible to duplicate that with paint. 

Following is a close up of my F-104. Notice the subtle panel lines and the "grain' of the metal panels. I do not think that it is shiny at all. It just looks like a clean plane with a metal finish.

Just one my thing. My F-86 is very shiny because I tried to duplicate a restored F-86. The top photo is a photo of a restored F-86 and and the second photo is my model.

Now that a got that off my chest I feel better!!!!!

Back to my first statement, "I agree, each to his own."  If a modeler likes using Alclad or Testors' Metalize to duplicate a NMF finish, more power to him/her. If someone likes to use BMF, more power to him or her. All that really matters is that they enjoy themselves.

By the way BlackSheepTwoOneFour, can you post some photos of your NMF airplanes? I would like to see them, maybe I can learn something new.

the Baron

Monogram, B-29, though, not Revell.  

 

Monogram, B-29, though, not Revell.  

Those kits look great... if you're looking for the new and restored look. In reality, most bare metal look aircrafts don't look like that during WW2 or while in active service. Yeah, they keep them clean and all but certainly not shiny. I don't care for the foil method because to me, it looks unrealistic. Each to his own.

I know that a lot of modelers, if not most, use some type of paint to duplicate a NMF. I have seen some really great results; however, I have stopped using Alclad, and any other paint, when it comes to doing a NMF finish on airplanes. I only use Bare Metal Foil. This is just my opinion, only metal can look like metal.

I have been using BMF for years and have had no problem with wrinkles on large panels. The solution is simple, Cut the BMF a bit larger than the panel to be covered. Apply the BMF along one edge of the panel with your fingers. Then use a paper blending stick/stump to smooth out the BMF. It works like a charm. No wrinkles. Just keep in mind, this process takes  time and a lot of patience.  The paper blending stick/stump can be found in any craft store in the same department as colored pencils. I use two different colors of BMF, Matt Aluminum and Improved Chrome. After I apply each pnel I lightly rub the BMF with 0000 steel wool.

Following are some exampls of BMF:

I am currently working on the Revell 1/48 B-29 in BMF. It is taking a long time. Following are a few pictures of the WIP:

Thanks for the info and links guys, I appreciate it.  I'm still just in the experimentation phase, so I'm looking at all options.  I really liked the AK Xtreme Metal paint I used on my last build, but that was my first NMF so I'm exploring other things this time around.  I'll be testing Alclad this weekend.

I got a sheet of Bare Metal Foil and have been tinkering with it on some scrap plastic.  I can see it's potential on small parts, but it does look like large areas would be tough to manage.  I'm also testing Molotow Liquid Chrome, which looks amazing... sometimes.  Problem is I can't get a consistent results with it yet, so testing continues.  When it lays down correctly though, it is stunning. 

Cheers, Mark

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Why not use Alclad or any metallic paint brand instead? The thing with using BMF is the task of burnishing it out without getting any wrinkles.

 

I agree.  I have given up on metal foil for large areas because of the wrinkle and bump problems.  I only use it for small areas and stripes.  I find Alclad great for large areas.  Secret is getting a flawless undercoat, and putting on Alclad in very thin coat, paint flow dialed way back.

Why not use Alclad or any metallic paint brand instead? The thing with using BMF is the task of burnishing it out without getting any wrinkles.