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Paint peeling off with masks

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  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: Ancaster, Ontario
Paint peeling off with masks
Posted by maxfax on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:58 AM

I have been having problem with paint coming away with the Tamiya tape I use for masking on my 109. I even try to remove most of the stickiness with my fingers before I use it.

Now, I do not use a primer- I'm afraid of using too many layers of paint and filling in the fine engraved details (maybe this is not even an issue), and this may be the problem.

I have read somewhere about washing the model in ? dish soap? while still on the sprues.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Rob

On the bench:  Revell 1/72 HCMS Snowberry

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:59 PM

I always wash the model before I start on it, dish soap, air dry, usually the night before I am going to start.

How are you painting?  If AB, you would probably be fine putting a nice primer coat on to give the paint something to grab without sacrificing detail.

I always take a strip of tape and really burnish it onto my forearm, sometimes twice it it's really sticky, then rip it off and put it on the surface.  I have even taken to doing this when I am painting baseboard, etc.

HTH

Bill 

 

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: Ancaster, Ontario
Posted by maxfax on Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:39 AM

I am using an airbrush with Model Master paints. I'll try using a primer next time- although I wanted to avoid this extra step, but I have wasted so much time re-painting all of the peeled of areas it will probably be worth it!

 

Thanks

 

Rob

On the bench:  Revell 1/72 HCMS Snowberry

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Neenah, WI
Posted by HawkeyeHobbies on Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:57 PM
Ya know...in the field the paint did peel and chip, and it was touched up. So in essence when you fix your masking woes, you are actually recreating real weather.

Gerald "Hawkeye" Voigt

http://hawkeyes-squawkbox.com/

 

 

"Its not the workbench that makes the model, it is the modeler at the workbench."

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:19 PM
I've been having the same problem with the Tamiya masking tape pulling up my MM acryl primer. After reading these suggestions, I suppose it's probably a combination of not properly washing my model right before painting, and not "destickifying" the tape. That, and the fact this is my first model after a 18 year hiatus.  So, thank you guys for your suggestions.  It has saved my model from the wrath of a claw hammer...for now. Smile [:)]

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
Posted by COLDIRON on Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:29 PM

How long are you waiting before masking the already painted area?

I actually use an old roll of blue 3M masking tape from the hardware store and so far haven't had too many problems with it pulling paint off.  It does happen occasionally, but not often.  I usually wait a minimum of 24 hours before masking a painted area using MM enamels.  Sometimes it's days after its cured that I mask just to make sure.  I also don't keep the masks on any longer than I need to.  

And if some paint is pulled off, oh well - touch it up.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:39 PM
I had the primer sitting on my model for 4 days before I even touched it.  As for the mask, I had a feeling my primer wasn't sticking very well, so I layed the mask on there for 2 seconds and removed it, along with all the primer.

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
Posted by COLDIRON on Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:47 PM

 BeerGremlin wrote:
I had the primer sitting on my model for 4 days before I even touched it.  As for the mask, I had a feeling my primer wasn't sticking very well, so I layed the mask on there for 2 seconds and removed it, along with all the primer.

That doesn't sound like a tape problem, more like a paint problem.  List the type of paint, thinner, the ratio, surface preparation, temperature, etc so we can maybe see what's going on.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:03 PM

First and foremost, thanks much for your help and quick replies. 

I primed my model with Model Master Acryl gray primer #4680.  I thinned it 2 parts primer, 1 part regular tap water (maybe a problem?)  I've heard some people spray acrylic paint right out of the bottle, but since it was the first time I used my airbrush, I was too worried about clogging it up right out of the shoot.  Not that I have much experience, but the paint flow seemed good.  Not watery, no runs, etc.  Maybe I laid it on too thick?  

I washed the model when I first got it with soap and water, before any assembly.  I did a fair amount of fitting and sanding, so I probably should have washed it again before laying the primer.  I did, at one time, brush water all over it and pat dry to remove any sanding dust.  Still, I would say I handled it a fair amount, so maybe it was too oily.

Temp in the house is 79 degrees.  I live in Arizona, so there is negligable humidity.

I have full confidence it's due to my lack of experience, so any help you could give would be much appreciated.

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
Posted by COLDIRON on Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:09 PM

Don't thin paint with tap water

Tap water has chlorine, minerals and all kinds of stuff in it.  Use distilled water instead

I also wash the model with hand type dish soap and luke warm water before each major paint coat.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:17 PM
Great!  Thanks for the suggestions!  I'll give it a shot tomorrow night and post an update.

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Maryland
Posted by usmc1371 on Friday, November 13, 2009 4:57 AM
You might also want to try a product call "Plastic Prep" available from Testors. It's great for preparing models for acrylic paint. If you don't want to buy "Plastic Prep", you can try wiping your model with alcohol before painting.

Also, don't thin Model Master Acryl paints with water. The manufacturer recommends Model Master Acryl Thinner. I've used water and Acryl Thinner and the Acryl Thinner is far better. You only need a couple drops.

-Jesse

Green side out, brown side out.  Run in circles, scream and shout.

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Scotland
Posted by Milairjunkie on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:17 AM

 usmc1371 wrote:
You might also want to try a product call "Plastic Prep" available from Testors. It's great for preparing models for acrylic paint. If you don't want to buy "Plastic Prep", you can try wiping your model with alcohol before painting.

-Jesse

I will second that, washing down on the sprue may help during construction or for cleaning hard to get to areas that require to be painted, but wont stand much ground when it comes to overall painting - as by then you model will probably have fingerprints & sanding dust all over it. Give it a blow over & than a wipe down with alcohol or meths & paint as soon as its dried.

I have used acrylic straight onto a kit & while it has worked ok, there is no doubt that a non-acrylic primer (such as Mr surfacer) will grip the plastic like there is no tomorrow in comparison, whereas acrylic is easily scratched, rubbed or scuffed of very easily. Using a primer like this gives the acrylic paint something better to hold onto as opposed to bare styrene.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Friday, November 13, 2009 9:06 AM
Great!  Thanks for the tips.  I'll look into getting the plastic prep and the correct acrylic thinner.  Do you think Testors Acryl airbrush cleaner would work for the time being?  I don't have any hobby shops near me, and the ones that are within driving distance don't seem to stock a wide variety.

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Friday, November 13, 2009 9:01 PM

 BeerGremlin wrote:
Do you think Testors Acryl airbrush cleaner would work for the time being? 

I haven't used this product personally, but I would say No.

The airbrush cleaner is formulated to dissolve dry paint in your airbrush by dissolving/breaking down the binders in the paint.  Using this as a thinner may even further reduce the adhesion of your paint.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Friday, November 13, 2009 9:18 PM
Roger that.  Thanks for the reply.  I ordered acrylic thinner, as well as some plastic prep, etc. today, so hopefully early next week I'll give it another shot.  At least I'm still having fun!  I'm excited to get this first model finished, but thankfully, I'm a patient builder.

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Friday, November 13, 2009 10:24 PM

I figured I'd post some pics of the awful state of the model, a Revell BF 109G-10.  That way, once it's done, you can see how much you guys have helped!

 

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    June 2009
Posted by jimbot58 on Monday, November 16, 2009 2:44 AM

I haven't had the best luck with acrylics myself. I tried using Testors old formula of acrylics and found the paint lifting off very easily. I haven't yet tried to use their new "Acryl" paints but heard they are improved over the old.

Also once tried using an acrylic clear finish and ended up with a pebbled surface that ended up with me stripping the model to start again. 

*******

On my workbench now:

 

Academy 1/72 SR-71 and Monogram B-52 "Big, Bad, and Beautiful"


  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Scotland
Posted by Milairjunkie on Monday, November 16, 2009 10:51 AM

Have you considered doing the whole painting process on some scrap plastic before commiting to the kit?

Before I started airbrushing my first kit, I got some scrap plastic, primed it, colour coated it & clear coated it - several times before getting it right(ish). This allowed me to get to grips with the airbrush & the paints I was using, so I could hit my first kit with some level of confidence.

May save several frustrating wash-down's on your 109?

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Monday, November 16, 2009 10:58 AM

That's a great idea.  I wish I would have thought about it before, but I'm just getting back into the swing of things.  I stripped the primer off the 109 this weekend so I have a clean slate.  I also ordered a duplicate kit, since I messed up the canopy pretty badly trying to apply a mask to that.  So, one way or another, I'll have some scrap plastic to practice with.

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:52 PM

I just thought I'd update you guys on my process with the Bf 109.  I know the aircraft forum is probably better for this, but I don't think this model warrants a pic post, since it's my first model and my airbrush is still giving me quite the headache as you can see from the splatter camouflage.

 

Thanks for looking, and thanks again for your help!

 

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
Posted by COLDIRON on Sunday, November 29, 2009 9:13 PM
One thing I will add, when I do mottling, I use a peephole mask, makes things a lot easier.  I just use an index card and punch holes or whatever shape you want in it and then spray the paint through the holes.  You get more control and less overspray that way.  Makes mottling a lot easier, especially for a beginner.
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Monday, November 30, 2009 8:43 AM
Ah.  Mottling!  That's the term I was looking for after a few beers.  Thanks for the tip, Cold.

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by JamesDean on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 6:00 AM
It may not be practical all the time, but in addition to the advice allready given, if you do a gloss clear coat first, you can then apply Tamiya masking tape "strait" (without trying to remove any of its tack), even PRESS it down hard, and rip it off days later without a care in the world.
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Scottsdale, AZ
Posted by BeerGremlin on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 9:06 AM

Good suggestion.  I actually didn't prime the model again once I stripped it.  I used Plastic Prep first and then just sprayed a coat of flat black MM Acryl.  I let each coat dry about 10 minutes before I masked it.  I had no paint come off when removing the Tamiya tape.  I'm happy with those results. 

So, it's either junk primer, lack of cleaning the model, or both.  Either way, I learned something!

SSgt Nathan Hennessy - F-15 Phase Inspection - 1st Equipment Maintenance Sq. - Langley AFB, VA - BOHICA

 

  • Member since
    June 2020
Posted by JimLo on Sunday, June 7, 2020 11:57 PM

Hi

did you ever figure out why the MM Acryl paint was peeling ? I'm having the same problem. I have three new bottles and airbrushed it using Model Master Acryl thinner. model was washed but I didn't use primer. A week after it dried using Tamiya masking tape it would peel off. I don't use primer for my Tamiya paints and never have this problem. Did I thin too much ? Not sure what's wrong? My other paints without primer do not peel like this. I had similar problems with my Vallejo paints too but for those I think it's because it's almost impossible to fully shake/mix them in their bottles without an agitator ball in the bottle. thanks. 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, June 8, 2020 3:47 PM

JimLo

Hi

did you ever figure out why the MM Acryl paint was peeling ? I'm having the same problem. I have three new bottles and airbrushed it using Model Master Acryl thinner. model was washed but I didn't use primer. A week after it dried using Tamiya masking tape it would peel off. I don't use primer for my Tamiya paints and never have this problem. Did I thin too much ? Not sure what's wrong? My other paints without primer do not peel like this. I had similar problems with my Vallejo paints too but for those I think it's because it's almost impossible to fully shake/mix them in their bottles without an agitator ball in the bottle. thanks. 

 

You need primer under MM Acryl. Period.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 8:53 AM

oldermodelguy
You need primer under MM Acryl. Period.

11 year old thread, timeless advice.

The indisputable nature of the solution justifies your period. Period.

Yes

-Greg

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 9:31 AM

Greg

 

11 year old thread, timeless advice.

The indisputable nature of the solution justifies your period. Period.

Yes

Crying  That's me harping on primer again lol !!

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 12:34 PM

Hey OMG, I hope it was clear that I am agreeing with you?

If it came off some other way, I sure didn't mean it too. I've had the same experience with Model Master acryls and am on the same page as you regarding priming. I agree, priming is necessary, that's all I meant.

 

-Greg

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