Badger Renegade Velocity- WOW!

I got mine as a Christmas present from my mother in law. It creates the finest lines I have ever seen by an AB! I'm very happy with mine!

Killjoy

 

brickshooter:

 

On the other hand, if bent one can re-bend it back in place with two quarters, & repolish with ultrafine sandpaper or toothpaste.

 

 

I have heard this before, but as I have been fortunate (and careful) and not bent a needle yet, I haven't needed to fix it.  Could you please explain the 'two quarters' method for fixing a bent needle?

Thanks!

Chris

Good to hear that you are careful Chris as that is all that is needed to keeping an airbrush in top notch condition.

If people would carefully and slowly put the needle into the back of the airbrush they would rarely need to buy an extra needle unless there's is just worn out. I have always used a very easy touch to put the needle back into the airbrush and I have been fortunate enough to have never damaged a needle so far.

I will let 'Brickshooter' answer you to the two quarters trick but I think he sandwiches the needle tip between two quarters and squeezes the quarters as he rotates and pulls the needle out of the quarters causing the bend to straighten. Most experts in the past have just sat the needle (taper flat) on a thick piece of glass and applied pressure to the needle as they rotated it towards themselves while keeping downward pressure with their finger on the needle.

brickshooter

On the other hand, if bent one can re-bend it back in place with two quarters, & repolish with ultrafine sandpaper or toothpaste.

I have heard this before, but as I have been fortunate (and careful) and not bent a needle yet, I haven't needed to fix it.  Could you please explain the 'two quarters' method for fixing a bent needle?

Thanks!

Chris

BTW, be very careful with the needle when inserting it after a cleaning. 

The needle tip are extremely easy to bend.

On the other hand, if bent one can re-bend it back in place with two quarters, & repolish with ultrafine sandpaper or toothpaste.

LOL, I hope middle of the night painting sessions aren't a regular occurrence! My wife would kill me if I started running my compressor during the night!

Looking forward to the pics of your tests!

Well, I took a real quick stab using my Velocity last night.  I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't sleep, so instead of just laying there, I did the obvious thing and tested my new airbrush.

I didn't take the time to take any photos as this was just a test run.  I needed to paint the silver areas of my C-17 and decided this was good tool to use as the paint areas were in tight places and I could not afford any overspray.  The Velocity worked great!!!  But that wasn't a real good example of the main capability of the brush, so I did some test patterns on some vinyl stock.  I discovered that the tight lines I could produce were incredibly thin.  Much thinner than what I can get on my HP-C Plus. 

Mind you, I was using Alclad at the time.  I will be using some enamel and acrylics over the next few days and will post my findings...I hope to provide a few pics as well.  Stay tuned.

Bgrigg

Holy Cow Frank, that mottle would look amazing at 1:48, let alone that tiny 1:144!

That's some major work, Frank. I'd struggle in 1/48 to come up with something similar. You definately need a capable airbrush to come up with these results, but the man makes the airbrush, Frank. Well done!

Damnit, now I am sold for sure.  Where is my credit card........

Holy Cow Frank, that mottle would look amazing at 1:48, let alone that tiny 1:144!

i would have to say that after seeing the results of the velocity that the bang for the buck lies with badger over iwata.i have read all these posts and think the no brainer is the velocity suplemented by a wider orofice airbrush. i just ordered the velocity. thanks all for your input and by the way,i couldn't care less if my wife see's the bill....lol

I took my Velocity out for a spin the other night, painting a 1/144 ME-262 freehand.  What a stunning piece of hardware, I am hooked!

I'll be interested in the comparison. Congrats on getting the new AB!

Just got the Velocity in the mail, today.  I came up with the cash earlier than expected.  I plan to make comparisons with my C-Plus over the next week or so and will post my findings.

keilau

 

hutchdh:

 

 

keilau:

 Let us know how the Velocity and HP-CS compare. How do they differ in handling, trigger control, spray pattern, etc.

 

Will do...actually, I have the HP-C Plus..my mistake.  I will still do the comparison, but may be a little bit.  That lack-of-cash thing keeps getting in the way of a good time....

 

 

The Iwata HP-C Plus costs about 3 times more than the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and is a very different airbrush. I do not have one, but am very interested in knowing how you use the C-Plus in modeling.

When I first got the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS in 2008, it changed my airbrush approach completely. It took me a while to learn the proper paint thinning and to spray more layers of light, misty paint to get the solid color cover. The HP-CS has only a 0.35 mm nozzle which is 3 times larger than the nozzle area of the C-Plus' 0.2 mm nozzle.

I have an Iwata C-Plus knock-off called the PowerCat 203. It claimed to have a 0.2 mm nozzle. Looking under a magnifying glass, the nozzle looked small than the HP-CS and is probably close to the stated diameter. But the taper of the two needles (Powercat vs. Iwata) is about the same length. They weight similar with the Powercat a few grams light, 105 vs. 111 grams, with the paint cup cover on. The PowerCat can do pretty fine lines, about the same as the HP-CS. They are very similar in spray patterns. But the Powercat does not have the precision feel as the Iwata when I push/pull the trigger. Despite the smaller nozzle, the Powercat is not anymore unforgiving in paint consistance than the Iwata.

I got a Badger Patriot to complement the HP-CS. The Patriot nozzle is much bigger and the needle taper is only half the length of the Iwata taper. Therefore, I can spray with heavier paints and lay down paint over a larger area much quicker. It is a much more forgiving airbrush than the HP-CS.

How well does the Iwata HP-C Plus handles modeling paints? It would be very interesting when you make a one-on-one comparison with the Badger Velocity. They have the same size nozzle.

Don't wait too long.

 

My C-Plus has handled every paint I have thrown at it (Tamiya, Vallejo, MM, Lifecolor, Humbrol, etc.)...the full spectrum with no thinning issues to note.  It by far is the best airbrush on my bench.  I use the Paasche H for wide coverage.  I am looking for the Velocity to give me slightly sharper lines than the C-Plus as a complement airbrush.

Not sure when I will pick up the Velocity as I am cash strapped at the moment and am looking at a cross country move this Summer.  At some point, I have to pack up the man cave.

Stay tuned.

hutchdh

keilau:

 Let us know how the Velocity and HP-CS compare. How do they differ in handling, trigger control, spray pattern, etc.

Will do...actually, I have the HP-C Plus..my mistake.  I will still do the comparison, but may be a little bit.  That lack-of-cash thing keeps getting in the way of a good time....

The Iwata HP-C Plus costs about 3 times more than the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and is a very different airbrush. I do not have one, but am very interested in knowing how you use the C-Plus in modeling.

When I first got the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS in 2008, it changed my airbrush approach completely. It took me a while to learn the proper paint thinning and to spray more layers of light, misty paint to get the solid color cover. The HP-CS has only a 0.35 mm nozzle which is 3 times larger than the nozzle area of the C-Plus' 0.2 mm nozzle.

I have an Iwata C-Plus knock-off called the PowerCat 203. It claimed to have a 0.2 mm nozzle. Looking under a magnifying glass, the nozzle looked small than the HP-CS and is probably close to the stated diameter. But the taper of the two needles (Powercat vs. Iwata) is about the same length. They weight similar with the Powercat a few grams light, 105 vs. 111 grams, with the paint cup cover on. The PowerCat can do pretty fine lines, about the same as the HP-CS. They are very similar in spray patterns. But the Powercat does not have the precision feel as the Iwata when I push/pull the trigger. Despite the smaller nozzle, the Powercat is not anymore unforgiving in paint consistance than the Iwata.

I got a Badger Patriot to complement the HP-CS. The Patriot nozzle is much bigger and the needle taper is only half the length of the Iwata taper. Therefore, I can spray with heavier paints and lay down paint over a larger area much quicker. It is a much more forgiving airbrush than the HP-CS.

How well does the Iwata HP-C Plus handles modeling paints? It would be very interesting when you make a one-on-one comparison with the Badger Velocity. They have the same size nozzle.

Don't wait too long.

keilau

 

hutchdh:

 

 

brickshooter:

 

Go with the Velocity for detailed work.   Seems like you would be duplicating spraying patterns with the Patriot and HP-CS.

 

Okay, Velocity it is.....

 

 

Let us know how the Velocity and HP-CS compare. How do they differ in handling, trigger control, spray pattern, etc.

Will do...actually, I have the HP-C Plus..my mistake.  I will still do the comparison, but may be a little bit.  That lack-of-cash thing keeps getting in the way of a good time....

hutchdh

 

brickshooter:

 

Go with the Velocity for detailed work.   Seems like you would be duplicating spraying patterns with the Patriot and HP-CS.

 

Okay, Velocity it is.....

Let us know how the Velocity and HP-CS compare. How do they differ in handling, trigger control, spray pattern, etc.

brickshooter

Go with the Velocity for detailed work.   Seems like you would be duplicating spraying patterns with the Patriot and HP-CS.

 

Okay, Velocity it is.....

brickshooter

Go with the Velocity for detailed work.   Seems like you would be duplicating spraying patterns with the Patriot and HP-CS.

I have the Iwata HP-CS AND the Badger Patriot. They are completely different airbrush. When you put the parts side-by-side, the CS nozzle is about 1/2 or less the area of the Patriot nozzle hole. The CS needle tapper is twice as long as the Patriot "fine" needle tapper. The Iwata CS can be a fine detail airbrush and it is sensitive to paint thinning and cleaning. It is very similar to how you (brickshooter) described the Velocity earlieer on this page.

I like the more linear control (slower transition) of the Iwata CS. But it makes me thin the paint more (compared to the Patriot) and have to spray more layers of thin, misty paint to get the finish I like. It took some getting use to. On the other hand, the Patriot is a much more forgiving airbrush. I can spray the MM Acrylic unthinned (not recommended for cleaning reason) and, in all case, lay down a solid layer of color much more quickly. It still have plenty of detail for pre-shading or free-hand camo in modeling, but the feel and control is completely different from the Iwata CS.

I don't remember reading a direct comparison between the Iwata HP-CS and the Badger Velocity by the same user at this forum yet even though brickshooter's experience with the Velocity and mine with the CS sound so similar.

I don't have a Velocity. I sure hope that Hutch will get one and compare it to the Iwata HP-CS that he already has.

brickshooter

Go with the Velocity for detailed work.   Seems like you would be duplicating spraying patterns with the Patriot and HP-CS.

 

I agree.

Go with the Velocity for detailed work.   Seems like you would be duplicating spraying patterns with the Patriot and HP-CS.

I find this thread very informative.  I was leaning toward a Velocity to complement my Iwata HP-CS, but now I am seriously considering the Patriot.

brickshooter

I've not used the Cresendo for a while.  But from memory, the Cresendo feels like it throws gobbles of paint onto a model.   I think it was made for t-shirt or extremely large surface work. 

Yes the Crescendo came out as a competitor and an upgrade to the Paasche VL which many old school T-shirt artists used.

Seems like the Crescendo is an layperson setup whereas the Renegade series is a professional setup.   

They are two different types of airbrushes so I wouldn't even consider comparing them.

The Crescendo can use a heavy, medium or fine needle as well so it is versatile but it is an older design and as you said it was designed mainly as a T-shirt airbrush although it will do many things very well.

Keilau,

I've not used the Cresendo for a while.  But from memory, the Cresendo feels like it throws gobbles of paint onto a model.   I think it was made for t-shirt or extremely large surface work.  So one can't really compare using a Rage setup versus the Crescendo.   Seems like the Crescendo is an layperson setup whereas the Renegade series is a professional setup.    But with the price of the Renegades dropping to about $100, I can't see any justification is staying with the Crescendo.

But as I recalled, the Crescendo will spray almost anything whether or not properly thinned. I think I was even able to spray without thinner.  With the Velocity, I'm using a ton of thinner. But usually eyeing by sight rather than any hard rules.

The only thing that I've to adjust for is to use a primer before & seal after from now on.   I noticed that the paint easily chips off.  I suspect it's because of the thinner layers.

This is the sort of opinion I'm looking for, for use in the airbrush user guide. Can I use this?

brickshooter

All these tech are getting me dizzy.  All I know is that the Velocity has changed the way I spray.  With the Cresendo, I'll put 2 layers on a surface.  3 at most if I'm is the right mood.

With the Velocity, I'll put 4-6 layers of different shades on a surface.  And more if I need to since each layer is so thin and dries almost immediately.   The result is that the eye sees 4-6 shades of the same color. I think this is what the Euros have been doing for years and we Americans are starting to catch up.

In addition, I'm not afraid to screw up the paint job.  Because each paint layer is so thin, I can just spray over any mistakes without having to sand the painted surface down.   I think this is called accidental pre-shading.  The fixed accident often looks better than a perfectly sprayed spot.

In the end, spraying is actually more "fun" than handbrushing.  This is something I thought I would never say.  Anyways, I really like the Velocity.   And nowadays, I have a tendency to rush through a built job asap so that I can fool around with airbrushing.

Reading through your post, I thought that you were describing the different experience of using the Iwata HP-CS vs. that of the Badger Patriot. How is the Rage needle in Velocity compared to the Cresendo?

I presume that you also thin the paint differently using the Cresendo vs. using the Velocity. It took me a while to get used to the Iwata CS and the fact that I have to spray more layers of thin, misty paint compared to other AB. It took me even longer to like how this thin, misty layers of paint work.

All these tech are getting me dizzy.  All I know is that the Velocity has changed the way I spray.  With the Cresendo, I'll put 2 layers on a surface.  3 at most if I'm is the right mood.

With the Velocity, I'll put 4-6 layers of different shades on a surface.  And more if I need to since each layer is so thin and dries almost immediately.   The result is that the eye sees 4-6 shades of the same color. I think this is what the Euros have been doing for years and we Americans are starting to catch up.

In addition, I'm not afraid to screw up the paint job.  Because each paint layer is so thin, I can just spray over any mistakes without having to sand the painted surface down.   I think this is called accidental pre-shading.  The fixed accident often looks better than a perfectly sprayed spot.

In the end, spraying is actually more "fun" than handbrushing.  This is something I thought I would never say.  Anyways, I really like the Velocity.   And nowadays, I have a tendency to rush through a built job asap so that I can fool around with airbrushing.

Since he sent it to me for use on the user guide, I don't think it's a trade secret. PM me your email addy and I'll forward it to anyone who wants it.

Bgrigg

Don Wheeler:

Nice summary, Bill.  I am curious about the tip sizes you quote for the Patriot and Anthem though.  I measured the inside diameter of both with a 25 power microscope and calibrated reticle and got 0.020 inches for the Patriot and 0.030 inches for the Anthem.  That works out to about 0.5mm and 0.75mm.  Not that it really matters much.

Don

 

Don, the tip sizes were lifted verbatim from a document Ken at Badger sent to me for use in the user guide. I am waiting for some clarification of specific sizes for the medium paint tips.

Is the document that states the tip sizes a Badger trade secret document? Can the original copy be made available to other Badger users?

Since Ken sent it to you, I presume that it is not posted on the Badger web site.