Acrylics VS. Enamels *Your opinions please*

If using hand brush, acrylic rules....

Harshman II

If using hand brush, acrylic rules....

Except in the case of Tamiya and Gunze/GSI Creos acrylics, which airbrush better than they hand-brush.

For hand brushing acrylics, Vallejo are hard to beat

Harshman II

If using hand brush, acrylic rules....

I heartily disagree. I have had far better results with enamels when handbrushing 90% of the time. Nothing has topped Humbrol enamels for handbrushing in my experience. I've tried just about every acrylic brand I could lay my hands on (Testors Model Master Acryl and Acrylic, Polly S and Polly Scale, Tamiya, Gunze, Vallejo, Life Colour, Aermaster, Pactra, and several others) and none give the dead flat finish or one coat coverage except for the long gone Polly S line. While acrylics do give a nice even one coat finish they rarely have the opactiy of enamels and usually end up needing a second coat when hand brushed.

In air brushing each has their own virtues and vices. Thinners (enamels are simpler across the board), drying in the nozzle (More problems with acrylics), and clean up (acrylics less difficult) being the main issues.

Y'all know I'm Old School anyway, so it's no surprise that I prefer enamels over any brand acrylics... I only use acylics for certain colors that I can't get with Testor's or Model Master enamels and would walk away from acrylics forever if I could...  Enamels brush on better, lay down better when sprayed, never clog the airbrush (provided I strained properly and a piece of gunk didn't make it's way into the cup), and adhere better.    Acrylics have their uses on my bench, but not enough that I'd ever miss 'em...

Besides, I LIKE the smell...  

I have never minded hand brushing multiple coats of acrylics for good coverage, I generally start 1 to 2 tones darker than my end-goal, and add successively lighter colors for coat(s) 2 and 3 when necessary.  I like the look and effect this color building produces.

For airbrushing, in my opinion, acrylics are much easier to work with.  They thin with alcohol in most cases, or water, and clean up with windex.  While not "non-toxic" as it has been claimed from time to time, it is a big step from cleaning with lacquer thinner.  I feel comfortable spraying in my closed garage with my modest home made spray booth venting fumes outside with acrylics.  If I were spraying enamels, I would not be satisfied with less than a professionally built spray booth and a respirator.

For me, the final kicker is that if you really screw something up, acrylics can be cleaned off or stripped far more easily without damaging your plastic. 

Those are my opinions and thoughts, others will vary!

Raining on the enamel parade………

Enamels are going to be a thing of the past in the foreseeable future, so start learning to use acrylics.

That said, to learn to use acrylics, you must first realize that they are not enamels, have different properties, and behave differently. Aw shucky darn, yer gonna have t' larn somet'in'!

The biggest complication to using acrylics is determining what solvent to use to reduce, or thin them. The second is learning that for some brands, dilution ratios are different.

Brushing problems have been addressed long ago by  the artist's community: they have retarders and flow-aids. The same things work very well for our paints, and one bottle of each will last a lifetime.

The same products will solve tip-dry and other airbrushing ills.

Adhesion is as good or superior to enamels with proper surface preparation and paint application. Good quality, fully cured acrylics can be very hard to remove (Polly Scale and MisterKit, in particular). Model Master Acryl does have adhesion problems compared to others, but I know too many modelers who use it all the time with no problems for this to be a real obstacle. Be nice if it were a better paint, but it appears to be adequate (adequate but marketable?) for most.

Cleaning? Between colors, on the fly, with less noxious solvents: acrylics, hands down. Full tear down and cleaning? Acrylics do it in the sink and no one complains.

The big drawback in acrylics has been metallic finishes. Hawkeye's Talon Acrylics has fixed that problem rather convincingly. Hope he never sells out to Testors……

Enamels are going to be a thing of the past in the foreseeable future, so start learning to use acrylics.

Not in my lifetime, I hope... Reckon I'll just stock up on the Model Master in the meantime...  I still have a few bottles of Testor's that have .49 stamped on the cap, lol...  

Gosh, I am surprised to hear such passion of one medium over another, regardless of the choice.  I see the virtues of both and use them interchangeably, depending on what I am looking for in a kit. 

Hans, I think I'll start a West Coast Wing of your Monogram society and add a branch of enamels forever

I gotta agree about enamels being my preferred medium in most cases. And considering all the LHS I shop at have a  great stock of enamels on hand, between them and my current paint stock, I think I am covered for the foreseeable  future. I won't have to be learning any new tricks there to my painting, even in the state I am living in. From the steps listed by the acrylic insurgent (adding retarders, extra plastic preparation, various mediums for thinners,etc), those are added steps that detract from the convenience of acrylics in my book. Especially when brush painting. I have been quite satisfied with a big can of hardware store thinner for nearly all my needs (Testors airbrush thinner rocks for enamels for airbrush thinning). Mind you, I like my acrylics, I just prefer my enamels. Considering that I do my airbrushing in an open garage, fumes are not an issue. Weather and daylight are the deciding issues there.

Life would be much easier, and acrylics more appealing if Tamiya would revert to the early-to-mid 80's formulation of their acrylic line.

This was a paint which dried a bit slower than the current formula, that didn't roll-up and self-levelled almost magically, and the paint actually made it to the model before it dried on the brush. Brush marks were near invisible and you almost needed a magnifying glass to see that it was brush painted and not airbrushed. And yes, this was when brushed straight out of the bottle.

I still have a few bottles of this "old" stuff - yes, nearly 30 years old and as good as (well actually, better than) new.

If we could have this back, I would buy it by the truckload.

Yes, whatever Tamiya did to alter their formula back then was NOT an improvement. If only there was a hobby shop time machine to go get those old OOP supplies...

WOW. Thank you all SO MUCH.

This has been absolutely great information, all of it.

I went out today and got some new paints to try out. I have a lot of testors enamels but i picked up some Model Masters acrylics today. I do a lot of hand brushing. But jeez all of these opinions have been so great. Thanks again guys...

"Acrylic insurgent," indeed!

I don't consider surface preparation an "extra step." Long experience with various coatings has taught me that 90 percent of all coatings failures are due to inadequate surface preparation, regardless of the coating system. The other 10 percent is usually use of the wrong coating system or improper reduction.

Adding a retarder takes less time than a single stir of the paint. Most of the proprietary thinners already contain it.

I have three paint solvents on my bench, none of them highly toxic: 90 percent isopropyl alcohol, distilled water, and odorless mineral spirits. The mineral spirits get used for oil washes and the few enamels I still use—metallics. Since the old Polly S line went away, no one has made a decent brushable acrylic metallic, at least that I've tried.

For airbrushing, I like Tamiya acrylics the most, and Model Master acrylics the least.

For handbrushing, I like Humbrol enamel the most and Tamiya acrylics the least.

Uhh, acrylics. No, wait, enamels... argh! I doubt you'll find too many that use one exclusively over the other these days. In my case, I've made selections based on what my LHS can keep in stock, because I do prefer to support the little guy.

Here's my story:

• Airbrushing - I use Tamiya acrylics almost exclusively now, and have had no problems with them so far. (I spray inside with a rudimentary venting system) And cleanup - hello, clean it all out with rubbing alcohol, cheap & easy. The downside, lack of RLM colors, but I don't mind mixing my own.
• brush painting - as far as I can tell, Humbrol can do no wrong, excellent coverage... but I do hate the little tins they come in

That being said, the shop I frequented before moving back home had an excellent supply of Model Master enamels, which included the RLM colours I often need. I really didn't have any issues with them, although they sometimes seemed a little thin for brush painting - bad batch? And airbrush cleanup was a little messier, stronger fumes when painting. I still have a good stock of the MM colours and use them routinely.

Grab some of each!!

I agree with Tamiya most for airbrushing, followed closely by goldens acrylic airbrush line.

For brush painting however, it's Vallejo for me every time!

VanceCrozier

Uhh, acrylics. No, wait, enamels... argh! I doubt you'll find too many that use one exclusively over the other these days.

 Well, there's one right here. I'm ALL about enamels...Testors & Model Masters. It's what I've learned with from the get go. They work well for me...so why try something else that will only bring about a learning curve.

 I have tried some acrylics though. My bro has a set of super expensive stuff that he uses on gaming figs....man was that stuff crap!!!! I stole one of his figs and painted it with enamels, he 'bout lost his mind when I showed him what I did with my "cheap" enamels.

Myself I use acrylics, mostly Tamiya, with some MM Acryl for airbrushing. When thinned properly, they cover flawlessly, produce a fantastic finish, and are very durable when allowed to cure properly. Heck, I can even intermix the colours without any issues. Cheap to thin, very easy to clean.

However, for handbrushing, I find them absolutely horrendous. They are not a paint range suited for that. I've stuck to Warhammer paints when wishing to hand-brush acrylics, and keep a few enamel colours on hand; I've been meaning to actually go and pick up a supply since I find that MM enamels are perfectly suited to handbrushing, and share some properties with oil paint that I very much enjoy.

zokissima

However, for handbrushing, I find them absolutely horrendous. They are not a paint range suited for that. I've stuck to Warhammer paints when wishing to hand-brush acrylics, and keep a few enamel colours on hand; I've been meaning to actually go and pick up a supply since I find that MM enamels are perfectly suited to handbrushing, and share some properties with oil paint that I very much enjoy.

I used to use the warhammer paints too (Made by Citadel for Games Workshop.)  I switched to Vallejo because they brush on very similarly, have dropper bottles, and a bit better pigment in my opinion.  Plus, I HATE GW's paint pots!  The new flip lids are better than the old screw on caps, but I still get alot of paint drying and wasted paint using those.

Hans von Hammer

Y'all know I'm Old School anyway, so it's no surprise that I prefer enamels over any brand acrylics... I only use acrylics for certain colors that I can't get with Testor's or Model Master enamels and would walk away from acrylics forever if I could...  Enamels brush on better, lay down better when sprayed, never clog the airbrush (provided I strained properly and a piece of gunk didn't make it's way into the cup), and adhere better.    Acrylics have their uses on my bench, but not enough that I'd ever miss 'em...

Besides, I LIKE the smell...  

I'm in the same boat as Hammer and agree with him.

The smell is good also!

68GT

 

Hans von Hammer:

 

Y'all know I'm Old School anyway, so it's no surprise that I prefer enamels over any brand acrylics... I only use acrylics for certain colors that I can't get with Testor's or Model Master enamels and would walk away from acrylics forever if I could...  Enamels brush on better, lay down better when sprayed, never clog the airbrush (provided I strained properly and a piece of gunk didn't make it's way into the cup), and adhere better.    Acrylics have their uses on my bench, but not enough that I'd ever miss 'em...

Besides, I LIKE the smell...  

 

I'm in the same boat as Hammer and agree with him.

The smell is good also!

As Ross has posted over and over, you better get used to acrylics as enamels are on the way out.

I'm using the Tamiya paint on a 1/48 Storch right now, and I decided that there were some panels that were going to be easier dealt with off the airframe & brush-painted. Sooo, I tried this: primer first, then two or three coats of acrylics heavily thinned, "airbrush thin", and they covered pretty well, didn't dry too fast etc. Until my LHS gets some of Tamiya's paint retarder in I'll keep using this method. It menas a few extra painting sessions along the way, but the stuff does clean up easily.

Mike, I know you and Ross have both said it, but seriously, the main lines of Enamels here, Testors and Humbrol, do not appear to be going anywhere. They are always well stocked at the LHS and neither company has put out messages saying that those lines are being discontinued. Even overseas, Revell, WEM, and XtraColour appear to be doing well, and those lines (as well as Humbrol) are from countries where the "greens" hold far more control over laws than here. I think the only thing we really see is that Acrylics are for more widespread than they used to be. It's just a thought, but I believe that the few other lines of enamels that have disappeared (Pactra, Floquil) have been due to the fact that Testors bought them out and eventually dropped them (hmmm, corporate raiders? ) rather than any environmental or other reasons. Just look at now Polly Scale is being discontinued- Testors buys them up, raises the prices to be roughly 25%-33% more than "their" own acrylic line, then discontinues the line due to "poor sales".

If the day comes where enamels are truly and seriously gonna go away, I will get a paint stash going too! I do doubt it will be in the near future.

stikpusher

Mike, I know you and Ross have both said it, but seriously, the main lines of Enamels here, Testors and Humbrol, do not appear to be going anywhere. They are always well stocked at the LHS and neither company has put out messages saying that those lines are being discontinued. Even overseas, Revell, WEM, and XtraColour appear to be doing well, and those lines (as well as Humbrol) are from countries where the "greens" hold far more control over laws than here. I think the only thing we really see is that Acrylics are for more widespread than they used to be. It's just a thought, but I believe that the few other lines of enamels that have disappeared (Pactra, Floquil) have been due to the fact that Testors bought them out and eventually dropped them (hmmm, corporate raiders? ) rather than any environmental or other reasons. Just look at now Polly Scale is being discontinued- Testors buys them up, raises the prices to be roughly 25%-33% more than "their" own acrylic line, then discontinues the line due to "poor sales".

If the day comes where enamels are truly and seriously gonna go away, I will get a paint stash going too! I do doubt it will be in the near future.

I have only echoed what Ross has stated as he is the expert on paints and where they are going as far as toxicity and so forth are concerned. I stopped using enamels several years ago and see no reason to go back to them. Using lacquer thinner to clean my airbrush is not something I prefer to do as that stuff is noxious and is much more flammable and dangerous than any cleaner for acrylics. People just need to roll with the times and adapt to other paints if need be as it is not that difficult. I have probably sprayed more acrylics in my life through an airbrush than 95% of the people on this forum and they really are not that bad.

I dont own any lacquer thinner and have not ever used it to clean my airbrush. Plain old hardware store paint thinner and nylon brushes have sufficed to clean out enamels, and I have tried various things to clean out acrylics (windex, simple green, testors acrylic cleaner) along with those same brushes or pipe cleaners. As far as "rolling with the times", no thanks, not my style (Levi 501s and a flat top never go out of style ). As long as the things I prefer are available I will buy them. If the enamel lines are shut down (highly unlikely in my view)-other folks use them besides us model builders, just look at spray cans, nail enamels, auto touch up paints, etc... I will go 100% acrylic by force, as need be.

To clarify (once again):

My contacts in the coatings industry have told me that within the foreseeable future (5 to 10 years) enamels will be gone except for specialty coatings. This is due to the concerns with toxicity and the environment. Exactly when it occurs is the question (probably sooner in places like California, where everything is known to cause cancer or otherwise be hazardous to your health ). But it is coming. What governs the speed with which it comes are the rapidity with which adequate substitutes for them are developed, the amount of resistance from the chemical supply industry, the amount of health and environmental fervor (currently low, as always during a depression), and how much the politicians feel the need to appear to be doing something besides lining their, and their friends, pockets. I suspect one of the big factors pushing this is oil, or the perceived lack thereof.

There is also a possibility that enamel "hobby paints" and oil "artist's paints" may survive as "specialty coatings." That, in some ways, would be worse. Anything with "special" associated with it is spelled $$$$pecial, as in $$$$pecial price.

As most of you methane breathers don't seem to realize, I'll be sad to see them go. As of now, no brushable metallic acrylic paint is worth the polymers it's printed on, at least that I've found. (Haven't tried Vallejo, yet.) Airbrushable metallics have been saved by Hawkeye's Talon acrylics, which are superior paints, IMHO.

So stop giving me grief. You been warned, pilgrim. Forewarned is forearmed…(wait a minute, we all have fore arms…maybe it's supposed to be four armed… )

Fair enough! And I do not mean to come across as giving grief.  I am more of wait and see if and when it really happens mindset. Out here in Cali as you noted, we can barely sneeze without it being thought a new protective law is needed for our own safety, but modelwise things are still good! Several great well stocked hobby shops within a short driving distance and IPMS and AMPS chapters to share your work in person and meet fellow modelers. As bad as things are in some respects, this is one area where life is really good right now.

And to lay yet another ridiculous card on the table, there are more than one way to thwart the access to materials being used to make enamel paints. If the EPA can't stop them, then the Department of Homeland Security will. One of my suppliers sent me a form to fill out at the bequest of the DHS to verify I am not a terrorist making volatile chemicals for evil purposes. Homeland Security is slowing lowering the bar on what are considered excessive quantities. Pretty soon you'll have to have a special permit or license to purchase thinners and solvents. Don't be surprised if you don't have to show an approved form of gov't ID to purchase a quart of paint thinner.

The current administration is closing the gaps between agencies. Think about it. Now with this soon to be passed bill, the IRS will now be in the health care industry as their thugs hired to verify compliance and collection. Think about how they will go about facilitating the control of hobby related chemicals...I'm from the FBI and you're in violation of the domestic chemicals act of 2011. I'm afraid I'll have to have those model paints.

Better stock up on Vasoline, you're gonna need it and that too will be regulated as they know it eases the effect of them...you know.

Hans von Hammer....Do you (or anyone else) happen to remember when those Testors bottles were $0.49?  Just curious and interested.

I use enamels, acrylics, oils, craft paint, house paint, inks, lacquers and even wifeys nail polish once in a while.