*AIRBRUSH OPINION* Iwata or Paasche

Personally I'm a Badger man, and heartily recommend the 100LG or 105 Patriot gravity feed brushes. If you must have a siphon feed, than the 150 or 155 Anthem are winners.

If you only have to choose be Iwata and Paasche, than I would go with Iwata, but would go for the HP-CS Gravity feed. Otherwise the HP-BCS is a very good brush.

Hello!  Well....my first response is neither!  I am a Badger user all the way.  I would start by asking you what are you airbrushing (scale models mainly I assume), and which scale (s) do you prefer.

I have owned Paasche airbrushes, and did not like them.  I have not tried their new Talon, which is supposed to be a very good brush, but I was a happy man the day I sold my double action VL.

Iwata ( I have 2 friends who own them) are very nice airbrushes, but tend to be a bit spendy, especially for most modelers.  If you MUST chose between the two, I would chose Paasche, and American company, but that's just me!

Honestly, any good double action airbrush will only be as good as the person who uses it, cleans it, and maintains it.  Make sure to save enough for a good compressor setup.

Good luck!

Chris

If you can get a Paasche Talon, their latest airbrush, you have more options with tips/needles.

It has three sizes available or you can get it in a kit that includes all three tips/needles and the fan cap.

I have there Talon's and am very happy with their performance.

i have a paasche talon and it runs just as good as the badgers and iwatas ive used and if you go to chicago airbrush supply you can get a whole package with the hose and everything for 83.95 i think. A good deal if you ask me

The Count

Which brand do you guys recommend and why?

I have a choice of getting either a

HP-BCS Eclipse Airbrush or a

Double Action Paasche.

You did not mention which Paasche. The closest competition to the Iwata Eclipse HP-BCS is the Paasche Millennium. I do not have either one, but they seem to be very similar in design and in price. Both have a compression fit cone nozzle of 0.5 mm as standard. Therefore the decision will mainly be made on how each feels when you hold it in your hand, or the ready availability and price of replacement needle and nozzle. The parts themselves are both inexpensive, but the shipping may not if you cannot get them locally. For example, I can get the Iwata nozzle/needle both for $14 total with changes at Hobby Lobby.

I think that the main difference between these are are the optional nozzle sizes. You can get a 0.35 mm nozzle for the Iwata, but it is 0.73 or 1.06 mm only for the Paasche. For modeling, the 0.35 mm nozzle is more useful. In fact, I consider the 0.35 mm nozzle to be the best all round size for modeling. The Paasche nozzles will be better for larger objects such as T-shirt, auto or body art etc.

The nearest Badger with similar range of nozzles to the Paasche is the 3155 Hybrid. It does not have a 0.35 mm nozzle either. No matter what you pick, avoid airbrush with a double taper needle.

Come back and let us know what you pick and how it works out for you.

keilau

 

The Count:

 

Which brand do you guys recommend and why?

I have a choice of getting either a

HP-BCS Eclipse Airbrush or a

Double Action Paasche.

 

 

You did not mention which Paasche. The closest competition to the Iwata Eclipse HP-BCS is the Paasche Millennium. I do not have either one, but they seem to be very similar in design and in price. Both have a compression fit cone nozzle of 0.5 mm as standard. Therefore the decision will mainly be made on how each feels when you hold it in your hand, or the ready availability and price of replacement needle and nozzle. The parts themselves are both inexpensive, but the shipping may not if you cannot get them locally. For example, I can get the Iwata nozzle/needle both for $14 total with changes at Hobby Lobby.

I think that the main difference between these are are the optional nozzle sizes. You can get a 0.35 mm nozzle for the Iwata, but it is 0.73 or 1.06 mm only for the Paasche. For modeling, the 0.35 mm nozzle is more useful. In fact, I consider the 0.35 mm nozzle to be the best all round size for modeling. The Paasche nozzles will be better for larger objects such as T-shirt, auto or body art etc.

The nearest Badger with similar range of nozzles to the Paasche is the 3155 Hybrid. It does not have a 0.35 mm nozzle either. No matter what you pick, avoid airbrush with a double taper needle.

Come back and let us know what you pick and how it works out for you.

keilau:

FYI Paasche has several double action airbrushes, they are the V, VSR90, VL and the Millennium.  The V and the VSR90 have the same size tip/needle options of .25 and .66 mm.  The VL and Millennium can use the tip/needle combinations of .55,.73 and 1.07 mm. 

Even though the VL .55 mm tip/needle seems large it can spray a very fine line.

The Talon has needle/tip combinations of .25, .38. and .66mm. 

The Badger Anthem has a needle/tip of .76mm and the Patriot has a needle/tip combination of .51mm.

tyamada

 

keilau:

 

The Count:

Which brand do you guys recommend and why?

I have a choice of getting either a

HP-BCS Eclipse Airbrush or a

Double Action Paasche.

 

You did not mention which Paasche.

Come back and let us know what you pick and how it works out for you.

 

FYI Paasche has several double action airbrushes, they are the V, VSR90, VL and the Millennium.  The V and the VSR90 have the same size tip/needle options of .25 and .66 mm.  The VL and Millennium can use the tip/needle combinations of .55,.73 and 1.07 mm. 

Even though the VL .55 mm tip/needle seems large it can spray a very fine line.

The Talon has needle/tip combinations of .25, .38. and .66mm. 

The Badger Anthem has a needle/tip of .76mm and the Patriot has a needle/tip combination of .51mm.

Only The Count know which Paasche airbrush is he really interested in. The Paasche information are easily accessible on the Paasche web site.

Your Badger needle/tip size information are correct. But potential buyers cannot find them at the Badger web site.

That's primarily because it doesn't actually mean that much as a specification. Having an airbrush with a small needle size doesn't mean the person using it can actually pull off the finest lines with it. Just like having a car with 600HP doesn't necessarily mean you'll win a road race. The average modeler will do just fine with the Anthem or Patriot.

Bgrigg

That's primarily because it doesn't actually mean that much as a specification. Having an airbrush with a small needle size doesn't mean the person using it can actually pull off the finest lines with it. Just like having a car with 600HP doesn't necessarily mean you'll win a road race. The average modeler will do just fine with the Anthem or Patriot.

It would be better to let the car buyer decide whether he/she wants to know the horsepower of the car instead of telling him/her that "you don't need to know." It is the buyer who should decide how powerful an engine or how high a gas mileage he/she wants.

Similarly, an airbrush seller should not try to tell the buyer that he would not need a small needle/nozzle size because he is incapable of doing fine works. The information should be there for the buyer to make an intelligent decision based on what he wants and how much to pay.

You mean like Rolls-Royce used to do with their "sufficient" horsepower?

Badger is quite clear on the performance of their airbrushes, and put it into words most people can actually understand: Fine, Medium and Large, they also provide a list of expected line widths in real life terminology.

You seem too focused on needle size, and not on the overall performance of the airbrush, especially when it comes to using one as a modeling tool. There are some great modelers who use quite rudimentary airbrushes. Quite a few use the venerable Paasche H external action siphon feed, and can paint intricate camo patterns rivaling anything a "high end" airbrush with it's fine taper and micro tip can do.

The Count

Which brand do you guys recommend and why?

I have a choice of getting either a

HP-BCS Eclipse Airbrush or a

Double Action Paasche.

I don't have any opinions about the items mentioned here, but while making the choise you might want to consider issues like ease of cleaning and maintenance. A lot of people will tell you that

No airbrush is better than the person who uses it,

 which is true. However, keep in mind that

A poorly maintained airbrush might prevent its user from reaching his potential.

DoC

You're not kidding, Bill!!! I've seen some major aibrushing magic done by a master using a no-name $15 airbrush that most people would dismiss as junk. My AB costs 10 times more, but the results are 10 times less!! But I'm learning!!

In my opinion when looking for an airbrush, there are a few major boxes to check: Affordablity, Performance/Needle Size, Gravity/Siphon Feed, Cleanability, Replacement Parts Availability. This is my checklist, anyhow (in no particular order).

I am always amused by the different camps on this website: Badger, Iwata, Other (H&S, Grex), etc. I can only surmise that they all are good in one respect or another, or else people would not endorse them so vigorously. In the end the "best" airbrush is the one you are happy you bought.

Bgrigg

You mean like Rolls-Royce used to do with their "sufficient" horsepower?

Badger is quite clear on the performance of their airbrushes, and put it into words most people can actually understand: Fine, Medium and Large, they also provide a list of expected line widths in real life terminology.

A Rolls-Royce salesman also told a customer that if he had to ask the gas mileage, he could not afford one.

Anyway, there is NO industrial standard on needle/nozzle size terminology. When Iwata calls the 0.2, 0.35 and 0.5 mm nozzles fine, medium and large, Badger calls their 0.5, 0.76 and 1.06 mm nozzles fine, medium and large. It is confusing to say the least. I like every manufacturer to provide a actual diameter in number instead. That's my preference, but I suspect that most airbrush buyers will agree with me. Case closed.

Bgrigg

You mean like Rolls-Royce used to do with their "sufficient" horsepower?

Badger is quite clear on the performance of their airbrushes, and put it into words most people can actually understand: Fine, Medium and Large, they also provide a list of expected line widths in real life terminology.

You seem too focused on needle size, and not on the overall performance of the airbrush, especially when it comes to using one as a modeling tool. There are some great modelers who use quite rudimentary airbrushes. Quite a few use the venerable Paasche H external action siphon feed, and can paint intricate camo patterns rivaling anything a "high end" airbrush with it's fine taper and micro tip can do.

I agree 100% Bill.

Some people are so swayed by the marketing ploy of needle diameter that it really makes me laugh.

I think I am going to make an airbrush with a .0001 needle diameter and say it will spray a line 1/100th of the Micron or Sotar. Think I could make some money?

If I had to choose between those two I would probably go with an Iwata as I have never been much of a fan of Paasche's old designs that don't feel right in my hand. I learned to airbrush on a Paasche VL and when I bought my Vega 2000 from Thayer & Chandler I sold my VL as it was junk compared to the Vega 2000 IMHO.

It is all a matter of taste. Coming from a family of master heavy equipment mechanics I like to compare airbrushes to wrenches. Yes Snap-On are nice and they are polished and shiny, but do they do their intended task better than Mac, Proto, or even Craftsman? No they do not. Some perceive them as being better because of marketing and so forth but the truth stands, it is the hand wielding the tool that makes the difference. As I learned in martial arts many years ago, it is the man that makes the art, not the art that makes the man!

[quote user="MikeV"]

Some people are so swayed by the marketing ploy of needle diameter that it really makes me laugh.

I think I am going to make an airbrush with a .0001 needle diameter and say it will spray a line 1/100th of the Micron or Sotar. Think I could make some money?

[/quote

I think some people think they can buy proficiency.  High end airbrushes tend to have smaller nozzles, therefore smaller nozzles must be better.  There was a time when 6 transistor radios were pretty standard.  Some companies produced 8 transistor radios where the extra 2 transistors did nothing.  They sold well because people believed 8 must be better than 6.  Now a days it's megapixels.  People look for something that can be specified.  And tip diameter is one of the few things about an airbrush that can be spec'd. 

Then there is the obsession with fine lines.  But, once you get down to pencil thin, how much thinner do you need?  And speaking of thinner, they're going to need more with those fine nozzles.

Don

Don Wheeler

 

Then there is the obsession with fine lines.  But, once you get down to pencil thin, how much thinner do you need?  And speaking of thinner, they're going to need more with those fine nozzles.

Don

Which has long been my point. Airbrush illustrators need the fine line control that is so often bandied about, but modelers are perfectly happy with pencil width. I have both fine and medium 100LG airbrushes, and with my limited skill, I can't get the fine one to spray any finer than the medium. In fact, I can get my single action 200-20 with the same medium head to spray finer lines than I can with either gravity fed 100LGs! Completely due to the ability of dialing in and locking down the line width. I don't have the trigger control with the 100's to pull it off.

Well said Don and Bill.

Unless you plan on freehand airbrushing Richard Bong's wife's mural on the side of a 1/48 scale P-38 it doesn't make much difference.

I think for most of us mere mortals, we will never approach the capabilities of our airbrushes.  I can get a fairly consistant line about the width of a standard sharpie marker, but my hand can not keep it straight oe even enough to make it look good.

My 100LG with medium needle and tip can do any application I need shooting 1/35 armor, 28mm sci-fi, and some really small tanks from the game 'Flames of War'.

Man, thank you all so much for the info.

I am not sure what the model number is on the paasche. I have to choose from these brands because this is just about all they carry at hobby lobby and for other reasons, that is where i have to buy this equipment.

Bgrigg

 

Don Wheeler:

 

Then there is the obsession with fine lines.  But, once you get down to pencil thin, how much thinner do you need?  And speaking of thinner, they're going to need more with those fine nozzles.

Don

 

 

Which has long been my point. Airbrush illustrators need the fine line control that is so often bandied about, but modelers are perfectly happy with pencil width. I have both fine and medium 100LG airbrushes, and with my limited skill, I can't get the fine one to spray any finer than the medium. In fact, I can get my single action 200-20 with the same medium head to spray finer lines than I can with either gravity fed 100LGs! Completely due to the ability of dialing in and locking down the line width. I don't have the trigger control with the 100's to pull it off.

Mike, Don and Bill,

You guys are all missing the point here. It is not about how fine a line. It is about whether the customer who lays out his hard cash deserved the information of the airbrush. When I am told that the nozzle has a fine nozzle, I want to know if it is 0.2 mm fine or 0.5 mm fine instead of being radiculed for asking irrelevant information.

Bill may be right that a dial-in "fixed line width" like the Badger 200-20 is of limited value. However, the limiting dial on the Paasche Talon or the H&S Evolution Siverline (double action) is quite useful in allowing a "not to exceed" type control in line width for the average users.

The Count

Man, thank you all so much for the info.

I am not sure what the model number is on the paasche. I have to choose from these brands because this is just about all they carry at hobby lobby and for other reasons, that is where i have to buy this equipment.

Keilau, I am not ridiculing you for your opinion, only pointing out that .35mm .54mm or .73mm is a meaningless number without some form of context. A novice is not going to understand what those numbers mean. And I agree that fine, medium and large aren't any better, but Badger at least puts a size range for each type on their website. Looking at 1/16" to 2" lets me know quite accurately what the AB should be able to do. Pencil width is almost as useless. Is that a sharp or dull pencil width?

MikeV

 

It is all a matter of taste. Coming from a family of master heavy equipment mechanics I like to compare airbrushes to wrenches. Yes Snap-On are nice and they are polished and shiny, but do they do their intended task better than Mac, Proto, or even Craftsman? No they do not. Some perceive them as being better because of marketing and so forth but the truth stands, it is the hand wielding the tool that makes the difference. As I learned in martial arts many years ago, it is the man that makes the art, not the art that makes the man!

I've owned Testors', Badger,generic, and Paasche. I've even used Iwata,  and none of these expensive ones were any better than the testors. or Badger. The Paasche was the best in terms of ease of use, cost, flexability  and features! I was sold on it,even after using the Iwata, and Thayer and Chandler brands. They just have pretty chrome, and nice built in unchangeable  paint cups with the "one size fits all" paint nozzles, and the prestige of the name with the high price tag - nothing much more in terms of being better than anything else I've tried.  I borrowed my friends' Paasche VL after all the others broke, or wore out, or other problems that I had with them, and I was instantly satisfied with the results after adjusting it to the spray pattern I needed. This took less than a minute.

I understand people swearing by a certain brand because someone else uses it,and turned them on to it. I also understand those who swear by a certain brand because it's what they're used to thinking that it makes them a better modeler - but experience speaks for itself for many professionals,and amatures alike. Some companies pander to the whims of popular opinion, and offer something flashy, or shiny and attractive (the newer brands do this) in order to establish themselves in the market. This is just a strategy to get you to buy something that you really don't need! I've used airbrushes for over twenty years, and I'm not just posting to win a popularity contest.

Use your best judgement . Ask yourself a few questions before buying:

 Are you going to use this all the time?

What medium are you going to use it for?

What type of budget are you setting for how often, or how much you want, or need to use it?

What type of projects are you using it on?

How proficient are you at airbrushing? 

What types have you looked at?

Who can  you trust to give you a fair, and unbiased opinion?

How well do you know areosol based spray equipment?

What features are you looking for?

What all is required to use this equipment, and how much does it all cost?

Will this be a good return on my investment?

Does the usage really justify the cost?

How easy is it to get replacement parts when something wears out, or breaks?

What kind of warranty does each of these come with?

What kind of paints/solvents are compatible with this airbrush?

Do you need any special equipment to operate this tool safely?

Will this meet my needs?

Do I have to replace parts often?

Who can show me the difference between the brands on a finished project so that I can compare quality?

Most people won't think this through to this degree, but read everything you can about the particular airbrush you're interested in before buying. You don't need the most expensive model to paint professionally. Start out with an inexpensive, or intermediary model that has more than one head, or tip on it,so that you can adjust, and figure out how to change, maintain, and get the most out of your airbrushing experience before graduating to another model, or more expensive brand. A Rolls Royce in the hands of someone who can't drive a stick shift is like giving a scapel to someone, and having them operate!  It doesn't make sense to buy the most expensive one when you're starting out. Just because it's expensive, that doesn't mean that it'll make you a great painter, YOU have to make yourself a great painter no matter whos' airbrush you're using.

If you can get a pencil thin line with your airbrush - then that's a good airbrush!!! No one needs a line thinner than that. If you want to write checks with it - a pen will more than suffice! It's impracitcal to think that you need a line any smaller than this, and it also means that if you can get a line this tiny, that you've mastered adjustment of one of these. If you need something smaller - a regular artists' paintbrush will do for something as small as a D&D figurine! This means that you no longer need an airbrush, as this is not what they're made for.

I have a friend that has a Paasche endorsement and I also have a few photos that he sent me using a Paasche on the very projects that got him the endorsement in the first place. I can't post the photos here as they're copywritten, but I can give you the website when I get the URL - I'll post it here.  

Here's where you can buy airbrushes of all kinds:  WWW.BEARAIR.COM

                                                                                                                                          ~ Cobra Chris

The Count

Man, thank you all so much for the info.

I am not sure what the model number is on the paasche. I have to choose from these brands because this is just about all they carry at hobby lobby and for other reasons, that is where i have to buy this equipment.

Even with the 40% discount coupon from Hobby Lobby you can do better getting an airbrush on the internet.  The prices at Hobby Lobby are inflated so they can give you the discount.

Also you are not limited to Iwata and Paasche. 

I have found that Chicago Airbrush Supply has very good prices and includes free shipping.

http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/

tyamada

I have found that Chicago Airbrush Supply has very good prices and includes free shipping.

http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Content/1153321224268?pid=1208716781313

Tyamada, excellent link for when I want to update Video Studio 11, but I think this is a better link to Chicago Airbrush!:

http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/

Could have been a far worse incorrect link!