Wanted: Alclad pointers!

I plan to spray the polished AL first, then mask off the panels that I will highlight in either AL or MG.

I did a small test run this last weekend with Alclad aluminum over the Alclad gloss black primer base over highly thinned 1200, and it came out great.  *shrug* 

If you get a bad batch you get a bad batch, but the bottle I have seems to work fine.  If it screws up on the actual production P-47 I'll cry, but thems the breaks.    For what it's worth, there are several comments over at LSP's forums on the gloss black primer needing a ton of stirring, and I did find that true.  Shaking the bottle didn't budge the black pigment at the bottom.  The electric stirrer, however, worked its usual magic.

Edit:  Since we're in an Alclad pointers thread, I have a question myself.  When doing different panels in the different alclad shades, do folks commonly paint the entire airframe in the base shade, then mask and shoot the panels you want to look different over the base metal color?  Or do you mask off those panels from the get-go and shoot the different shades directly onto the primer?

I used Humbrol Black gloss to prime both of my Alclad builds. I had an issue with the second one. I masked some of the panels after the first coat of Alclad. Some of the Alclad started to peel off when i removed the tape. But it was easy to push back down. I think maybe i had not given the Alclad time enough to cure.

They look great Joe, that finish has a very realistic look.  I'm now a little concerned about using the Alclad gloss blck primer, have heard several negative comments on it.

I have been using Alclad II for years on anything that s supposed to be metal, to include landing gears and such.  Contrary to Alclad's black primer, which is , their grey micro filler primer is excellent and I have also been using it for years, even under non NMF subjects.  It also fills in small scratches if you happened to get carried away with the sanding sticks.  Shold it dry pre-maturely during application and leave rough patches,such as in the wingroot area (common problem with me), just use some 2000 grit sandpaper and lightly sand the area till its smooth.  Then tape off various panels and use different shades.  I use primarily duraluminum, semi-matte, dark, and just plain old aluminum.  I sometimes use the polished aluminun on prop hubs.  This is done over Tamiya flat black under cured Future.   I've never tried the sealer or clear so I cannot comment on that.  These were both painted with Alclad laquers:

Hope this was insightful

Joe

Cadet Chuck

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Alclad is way overrated and much too expensive.  I have wasted a lot of money on this stuff and thrown it out. 

While the dollar per ounce value is higher than other paints, you use so little (because you need to put on a very thin coat) that I find it cheaper than other paint I buy.  A bottle of Alcad gives me four or five models.

Even so, when people complain about the price of paint and thinner, I figure I spend less on paints for my models than for aftermarket detail sets, PE and the like.  That is the stuff that really eats up my money.

Again, the secrets to alclad are a good primer or undercoat, and a very thin coat of alclad.

As Marc said, use light coats. Go too heavy and it just looks like silver paint. And mix it often because it will fall out of suspension fairly quickly.

Tony

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Alclad is way overrated and much too expensive.  I have wasted a lot of money on this stuff and thrown it out. 

Decals can be put straight onto Alclad just fine. Not sure about other decal solutions, but Micro Set is ok to use on it as well. As for weathering, i guess that would depend on what your useing. I use pro modeller wash and they work well on it.

Alclad sell products to seal in the decals, but i haven't used these yet. I'm still not sure what ones to use.

Excellent, great information.  One last question, do you need to seal Alclad before decals/weathering?

I've experimented with just about every metalizer imaginable over the past year (don't ask me how much I've spent on this..... it's embarrassing), and I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that Alclad II is just the best when it comes to 1) the realism of the metal finish, and 2) the "toughness" of the surface for masking and handling.  It's expensive, and more of a hassle to use, but I can't argue with the results.  Surface prep is key, and I also use Mr. Surfacer 1200 as a primer coat before applying the black gloss.  The high shine colors (there are 6 for plastic and 2 for lexan) require the black gloss surface, and because these colors are somewhat transparent, the color changes with almost every pass of the airbrush as the paint builds up.  This allows for a great deal of flexibility/creativity in how the finish comes out, but it's hard to duplicate without practice, and if you go too far you can go from the look of real metal to just silver paint pretty quick. I've used both the Alclad black gloss base and other black gloss bases, and have never had a problem with any of them.  One suggestion if you plan to overcoat the metalizer with a sealer of some sort (and you really need to with many metalizers, especially those that use polishing powders)--- use a metalizer color that is a bit more "shiny" or "bright" than the color you want to end up with. The overcoat/sealer will tend to "back down" the metalizer to the appropriate shade.  Good luck, and have fun!

Tom

DO NOT USE THE ALCLAD BLACK BASE COAT

They have some serious quality control issues with this stuff. I have had horrid results with it, as have others I know. Use Tamiya gloss black. Myself and others have had problems with the alclad black cracking and peeling when the metal color is applied over the top even after more than a week of curing. Some people have said the stuff will not even dry for them in several days time.

Other than that I don't see Alclad as hard to use. Clean, smooth surface prepped with a tac cloth right before painting. Use light misting coats. Anyone with decent airbrush technique can make the stuff work... And best of all it dries hard enough to mask over in just a few hours.

Thanks for the info all.  Yes, the high sheen is a/c AL and also have just plain AL.  I'm anxious to see the difference on test shot.  I would suppose since this dries quickly, you shouldn't spray too far from the surface and use a narrow or wider pattern?  Never used Mr Surfacer 1200, need to pick that up and never even heard of Polly S PP, a static remover.... great idea.  I've read that these finishes show differently over black, I think experimentation is an EXCELLENT idea.

BTW, did you clean with lacquer thinner?

Stuck on iPhone so excuse my terseness. I tend to always use black, even on regular finishes, both for some shading if I want it, and to see where needs more coverage. Lot harder to see metallic on gray. 

Also, high-shines over black will be DARKER than regular finishes like Aluminum and Duraluminum. It's an interesting property, borne of the slightly translucent nature of the high-shines, but knowing it's there you can absolutely use it to your advantage. 

I highly suggest you get some practice first until you get the hang of it.  I used a couple of sheets of flat white styrene stock from the LHS, and masked off several areas so I could experiment with each color I wanted to use.

This stuff can be tricky.  The secret is using very light mist coats of color repeatedly until the surface looks right to you.

After doing all that, I decided NOT to use it on my model, as I was not happy with the results.

I know there are many folks who love the stuff, but I guess I just don't have the right technique.  I'm going to pitch the remainder of the paint into recycling.

You are correct that the surface mu be pretty much perfect.  When you say "high sheen" do you mean chrome or polished aluminum?  These are the only colors that require the gloss black base coat. If you are not using these you do not need the gloss black.

Once you think you are ready to start painting you need to prep the surface.  Do all you normal filling and sanding and rescribing if need be.  Clean the model and treat with Polly S Plastic Prep.  This removes the static charge that can build up on the plastic and greatly reduces the attraction of dust.  Prime with Mr. Surfacer 1200.  This will fill any small surface scratches that you think are not there but will show up under the Alclad.  Buff this out with 4000 micro-mesh.  If you don't have that a coffee filter works pretty well too.  Clean it again and treat with the Polly S again.

If you are using chrome of polished Al this is when to the gloss black.  I use MM enamel gloss black and apply the coats close enough together to get them to melt into each other.   This has to be completely cured and rock hard.  Leave it a week or so to be sure.   If there isn't any dust move on to the Alclad.

If you are using the regular Alclad color skip the black and put that over the Mr.s S 1200.  DO NOT put the Alclad directly on the plastic.  It is lacquer based and very "hot" and you will craze the surface just thinking about doing that.

Smooth coats that are light enough that it does not dry while you are spraying and you get a rough surface, especially and recessed areas or tight spaces, but not so heavy that the metallic components start to pool or it will look splotchy.  yes it is sprayed right out of the bottle and you need to shake it up often as it starts to settle out fairly quick.

If this is a 1st go at this I suggest you find a "burner" kit in the stash and just build the basic airframe and give the whole system a test drive.

All this info, which has served me well through the years, is what I picked up a long time ago listening to a webinar given by, the now defunct, Cutting Edge decals with a couple of top modelers. Floyd Werner was one and his stuff is all over the web. 

You can see my results on my website.  Take a look at the P-51s and P-47s.