Update Feb 29th: Installed a fine needle in my Badger 200...trying to troubleshoot.

Somethings blocked. Check the needle and make sure it's moving in conjunction with the trigger.

I think bubbles in the cup generally means the front bits are incorrectly tightened, or possibly damaged. A possible fix is to use a bit of bees wax to help better seal the forward components. I always use some Regdab, (Badger's airbrush lube,) at reassembly, that aids the sealing of small parts and reduces possibility of minor reverse flow air leaks.

I'd recommend dis-assembly, check the nozzle for a split, and make sure when you put it back together the parts are sufficiently torqued for a good seal. The threads are tiny, so no need to really crank on them. Also ensure the white nylon washer is still in good condition, they have a way of losing efficiency over time.

Wait a bit and Don Wheeler will stop by, he can help sort it for you. Good luck with it.

Patrick

Is the needle moving or set too far up ?

Either the needle not aligned correctly or something's screwed on too tight. Maybe a bent needle point during the re-install?

Is it a 200 or a 200NH?  Did you change all three parts, the needle, tip, and spray regulator?

Bubbles in the cup means air is leaking into the paint path.  It can happen at the base or front of the tip.

Don

Thanks for the replies Guys.

Don,  It's a 200-NH. Yes I did replace all three parts as they came with the Badger fine needle kit I bought at Michael's craft store. 

One thing I'm not sure of in the schematic blow up is there is a part 50-046 PTFE needle bearing and I didn't see that part unless its inside something else. I don't recall that part on my medium needle outfit either.

I also did not take the trigger apart in order to install the fine needle. Just took apart the front parts and was very very careful. The new needle is not bent, and I'm always careful not to over torque when tightening.

I'll try a couple of things when I get a minute and report back. Thanks

WW, the needle bearing is installed in front of the air valve and trigger, no need to worry about it being the problem, very unlikely if it was not somehow disturbed. A split nozzle would be my first suspect, second would be the nylon washer at the rear of the nozzle.

Maybe with a dis-assembly and inspection you can identify a problem, then a good cleaning and reassembly. Might not be a real problem anyway, could just be something missed at assembly of parts, (been there.) (:>)

Let us know how you make out.

Patrick 

I agree with Patrick.  It's not the needle bearing.  A bad bearing could stop the spray, but it won't cause bubbles.  And, like Patrick, I suspect the nozzle is split.  That is easy to do on a 200NH. You should always have the needle adjuster fully tightened before installing a needle and tightening the needle chuck.  If you don't, you can split the nozzle by adjusting the needle too far forward.  Have a close look at the nozzle with a magnifier.

Don

This 200NH airbrush is now going back to Badger for the second time since 2008. I have used this tool only 5 or 6 times on only 3 or 4 models and have had nothing but trouble with it.  I have to revert to my Badger 250 spray gun which has worked for about 250 models without trouble, but you can't do fine line camo with it.

 The last time the 200NH didn't work I found out that if solvent got on the tiny little O gasket it would swell this and stop the air.  But how would one know this before hand? There are so many many things that can go wrong. Now it may be a split nozzle( I can't see it) but how would anyone know that could happen?  I put my older medium kit back on and that didn't work either, so are both nozzles cracked?....I work very slowly, carefully and meticulously when using this tool.  I'm meticulous in cleaning it. I'm a very handy guy as well. I'm ready to just give up on it. When Badger sends it back working as it should, something else may happen that I'm not aware of. 

I don't understand how some people have been using this airbrush for decades without any trouble.

Alternatively... is there an even simpler design/make/brand that can do approx 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch spray for camo that is completely idiot proof? If so please let me know.

sorry to hear about the trouble you're having. I found the paasche "H" single action was good, easy to maintain and impossible to screw up. Decent detail work too.

If you get super picky about detail ablilty though that puts you down the path to more complex and sensitive airbrushes.

bubbles mean either a blocked airway out the tip, loose fitting on the nozzle cap end, or the little hole in the top of the paint jar lid may be plugged. if everything didn't seat just so in the front end there may be a gap letting air swirl back into the airbrush. It is something that is part of learning a new tool unfortunately. but i don't think its broken.

try re assembling the old parts and see what you get. Look through the new fine nozzle and make sure you see daylight. try to relax and think out the problem and you will find the answer. An airbrush is not that complex, just a new challenge. Let us know how you get along.

Wilbur Wright

Alternatively... is there an even simpler design/make/brand that can do approx 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch spray for camo that is completely idiot proof? If so please let me know.

 

Wilbur Wright

Alternatively... is there an even simpler design/make/brand that can do approx 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch spray for camo that is completely idiot proof? If so please let me know.

 

Thanks for the replies Guys.

Don, I'll try the beeswax before I mail it out. I'll presume if I wanted to buy a 350 I would have to get the fine tip and head to do 1/4 inch patterns?

I know we all appreciate your website, Don.

Karl, I'm afraid a 150 would be somewhat similar to what I have, and that scares me.

Thanks again

Wilbur Wright

Don, I'll try the beeswax before I mail it out. I'll presume if I wanted to buy a 350 I would have to get the fine tip and head to do 1/4 inch patterns?

I know we all appreciate your website, Don.

Good luck with it, Wilbur.  I didn't see much difference in the fine and medium heads of the 350.  A 1/4 inch pattern is going to require thin paint and a steady hand with this airbrush.  You could do much finer with your 200NH.  I hope the wax works for you.  Look closely at the opening in the front of the body.  If there are any burrs or scratches, they could cause your problem.  It has to be a good metal to metal seal.

Thanks for the comment on the site.

Don

Wilbur Wright

Thanks for the replies Guys.

 

Don, I'll try the beeswax before I mail it out. I'll presume if I wanted to buy a 350 I would have to get the fine tip and head to do 1/4 inch patterns?

I know we all appreciate your website, Don.

Karl, I'm afraid a 150 would be somewhat similar to what I have, and that scares me.

Thanks again

 

 

 

I hate to see anyone have difficulty with an AB, your's seems to be ongoing. I have two NH's, one new and unused. Don Wheeler is a very good friend of mine, he has taught me a great deal about AB's and maintenance/repairs/adjustments. I am now able to do a quality overhaul of the Badger line, have all of the parts needed to make it new again.  

No scam, if you'd like to send me a PM with an address and I'll give you mine, I'll send you my 200NH, you can use it for the meantime and I'll fix yours up for you, no charge for the parts or anything else. That way I can examine yours to see what is wrong, overhaul it, then advise you as to the problem. Guaranteed it will come back like new and properly adjusted.

You can send mine back when you're satisfied with the fix. Happy to help a member, I enjoy fiddlin' around with things in my retirement. Let me know if you're interested, if not it's OK.

Patrick 

Patrick that's very generous of you.

Unfortunately I tried using chapstick to seal the tip seating and it didn't work, so I went right out and mailed it to Badger.  I'll just wait to see what they say, they have been good to me before.

I would much rather have this 200NH in working order as far as fine line camo. I hate to dread picking the thing up for fear it won't work, as has happened numerous times.  As stated before one time it was a swelled O ring, but how would I have known that unless someone taught me not to tilt the brush back.  

I'll report back on what the issue was. Should be a couple of weeks. I'm decaling an Airbus 1/72 A400 right now, which is a whole other ball of crazy. 

Thanks again for your generous offer

Wilbur,

I suspect Badger will make it as good as new. When you get it back, try it with plain water before spraying paint.  If it works with water it should be good.

One thing to consider: your 250 is more forgiving for acrylics than an internal mix airbrush.  When you have a needle in the path, tip dry can be a problem. The paint builds up on the needle and stops the flow.  There are retarders that help reduce this, but you still may have to wipe or brush it off occasionally.  There are people on this forum who can give you some good advice on that.

Don

Badger service is top notch. Send the brush back and express your displeasure with it. Many times you will be granted a brand new brush. The company can not be beat for it's customer service. This in my opinion is Badgers greatest value.

I just had my 150 retooled after nearly 10 years of straight use. My brush came back like new and quick, but I do live near the compnay, so things may move faster in my case.

Wilbur -

Badger I'm sure will do a fine job on sorting your 200NH, it doesn't take them long, I'll bet they understand how hard it is for a customer to wait a long time to get the AB back.

Question, do you have the NH manual still available? If not you can download it from Badger's website. There is really very little that can go wrong, or get hurt, they are reliable and very durable. One thing though in particular to watch for at reassembly, is the step where you insert the needle.

To ensure no needle or tip damage, I always do the following in this order.

1. Install and tighten the blue handle.

2. Install the tip, 41-004 carefully, that's a good place to use a little beeswax to enhance the seal. The end is very finely machined, easy to distort, requires gentle handling.

3. Install the head, 51-071, next the regulator, 41-043. Tighten these down snugly by hand, no need to really reef on them.

4. Install the trigger

5. With the two handle end bits screwed in, tighten the forward one  snugly, leave the rear one a bit loose. Install the needle, but very carefully just slide the needle forward until light contact is made with the tip, you'll feel the needle make that contact, then stop.

6. Now tighten the rear most piece, needle chuck 50-010, now there is no risk of damaging the tip, due to mistakenly forcing the needle into the forward bits, if installation is out of sequence.

At my local club I see the nozzles/tips with damaged ends somewhat often, due to having the needle too far forward and then tightening the foward bits.

Other than that, these old workhorses go on for many years without problems. Member Don Stauffer has an old 200, I think around 40 years or more in age. Strong testimonial.

Hoping you get it back quickly and have no more issues with it.

Patrick 

Thanks for that detailed tutorial Patrick. That should help me to avoid small mistakes that could ruin the day. I do have the manual as well. The blow up schematic helps.

Don, after years of using MM enamels about 75% of the time I find I'm using Tamiya Acrylics more and more, and of course as you say this could lead to tip dry in an internal mix brush. I've got my thinner ratios perfect at this point for the 250 and larger coverage, they really go on nice and the cleanup is so much easier to deal with than using mineral spirits.  I usually thin the paint with Tamiya thinner then when finished blow out the  brush with 91% rubbing alchohol. I may have to re-adjust my thinning ratios when I get the 200NH back.

When tip dry does occur on an internal mix brush do you need to remove the head (51-071) and the regulator (41-043) in order to remedy?

Thanks for all the help guys, very much appreciate all of this.

Wilbur Wright

When tip dry does occur on an internal mix brush do you need to remove the head (51-071) and the regulator (41-043) in order to remedy?

I don't have much experience with tip dry.  I only use enamels, and it's not much of a problem with them.  All I can tell you is what I have read. A lot of airbrush artists just use their fingernails to pick it off.  They do this every once in a while without even thinking about it.  Some modify their airbrushes to make it easier.  Some people use a small brush or swab with thinner to brush it off.  And, sometimes a healthy squirt to the side will clear it. I don't believe you should have to remove the head.  You might want to start a new thread with just that question and see what answers you get.

Don

Wilbur Wright

When tip dry does occur on an internal mix brush do you need to remove the head (51-071) and the regulator (41-043) in order to remedy?

Thanks for all the help guys, very much appreciate all of this.

Hi,

I use acrylics almost exclusively and tip dry can be bothersome. As Don said, you don't need to remove anything from the AB to remedy. I use two solutions depending on which AB I'm using. If using my H&S evolution with a two pronged crown cap. I use a tissue dampened in thinner to carefully clean the needle and, I suppose I could use my finger nail. With other AB's where there isn't direct access to the needle I use a cotton swab (Q-Tip, Cotton Bud whatever) and 1) dip the swab in thinner, 2) retract the needle on the AB and hold, 3) insert swab and rotate, then 4) CAREFULLY allow the needle to enter the swab, 5) remoove swab and done. Took longer to type then do. It is a bit harder with a single action brush like my (very old) Badger 200, Then, I unlock the needle by loosening the collet at the back of the AB, pull the needle back and continue from 3 above then relock the needle. No disassembly required and it takes just seconds.

You have guys responding here that know far more than I do about this, so I won't add to the discussion of possible causes. I would only like to add that I had a Badger 200, two of them even, and I was very frustrated with them. I had the same issues you are having. There were two things that repeatedly happened to me. The wax seal around the tip would fail causing issues, or the o ring became compressed over time. Both issues caused me a lot of frustration, and usually during critical paint jobs. Things would be going well and then wam! I'd spend the next half hour trying to fix the problem and by then that nice gloss finish I was trying to get was messed up. Honestly, for me, I gave up on that brush. I purchased the Badger 150 and I have not looked back. I have had no issues to speak of other than a bent needle tip causing some splattering, and that was probablymy fault for banging it against something. One has to be very careful not to bend the tip. Once that problem was identified, it has performed flawlessly. I know that there are people that love the 200 and have used them for years. It is just in my humble opinion that they can be temperamental. That was my experience anyway.

Update.  I said I bought a Badger 150.  I meant to say their Anthem 155. Sorry about that.

Sorry folks. I meant to say the Badger 155.

Wilbur Wright

 

 

Alternatively... is there an even simpler design/make/brand that can do approx 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch spray for camo that is completely idiot proof? If so please let me know.

 

 I know all the airbrush aficionados may cringe here...just a little bit!

My main airbrush is a Central Pneumatic, double action, from Harbor Freight....20 bucks!

Get your variable right (pressure, thinner, etc) and you can do that German "spagetti" camo in 1/72! I haven't done that finish myself, but I have no apprehention about doing mottling in 1/72.

Almost "spagetti", but not quite...these lines are roughly 1/8th" +/-.

Bakster -- Wilbur's 200NH has the same head as your 155, so he shouldn't have your previous problems.  I love my 155.

Don

Don, thank you for that clarification and I apologize for the confusion.

I agree with you about the 155. I can tell you that when I approach my airbrushing sessions I can do so with a confidence that I never had before. If I keep it properly cleaned, I know that the AB will work perfectly. I see this AB being my workhorse for many years to come.

Wilbur, I hope that you get the problem resolved soon. I know how frustrating AB problems can be.

fermis

 

Wilbur Wright

 

 

Alternatively... is there an even simpler design/make/brand that can do approx 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch spray for camo that is completely idiot proof? If so please let me know.

 

 

 

 

 I know all the airbrush aficionados may cringe here...just a little bit!

My main airbrush is a Central Pneumatic, double action, from Harbor Freight....20 bucks!

Get your variable right (pressure, thinner, etc) and you can do that German "spagetti" camo in 1/72! I haven't done that finish myself, but I have no apprehention about doing mottling in 1/72.

Almost "spagetti", but not quite...these lines are roughly 1/8th" +/-.

 

Im not great with an airbrush, but I have been saying basically what you are alluding to here for many years. Most airbrushes will take you where you need to go, it's mostly about learning how to use your brush. I know some guys have to have the best, and think if they dont have the best then the job can not get done. I never understood that logic. I have had the same Paasche VL for many years, it's not a world class brush, but it can do most anything needed, same said for my Badger 150, just a basic old brush, but a good brush and a great price.

spiralcity

Spiral and Fermis  

You're both completely correct, it's not what the airbrush is, it's how the airbrush works for you. My first airbrush that I considered good, worked well for me for several years as my only AB. It is the Binks Wren, single action, internal mix type, as basic as an airbrush can get. I was very satisfied with it, at nearly 50 years old I still have it and sometimes use it today

My Paasche VL served well for many years, I only quit Paasche when poor replacement parts started to arrive. Now my very basic Badger 100G and 200G do the majority of my work. I don't think the amount of money you spend on an airbrush will determine the quality of function, it's just about what you can accomplish with it.

For what it's worth, I think my Badger 100G and 200G together cost about $100, purchased on sale brand new, utilizing discount coupons at factory authorized dealers.

Had Paasche not provided me with poorly made VL replacement parts, no doubt I would have happily continued with it's use. I can't say I have ever used a bad airbrush that was in good order, it boils down to: 1. Do you like the spray quality? 2. Does it fit your hand well? 3. Does it do the majority of work that you typically do? Beyond that, it's just a matter of personal preference.

But I do recommend against buying more AB than actually needed, especially until the experience to know what you require is gained.

Patrick 

 

 

 

fermis

 

Wilbur Wright

 

 

Alternatively... is there an even simpler design/make/brand that can do approx 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch spray for camo that is completely idiot proof? If so please let me know.

 

 

 

 

 I know all the airbrush aficionados may cringe here...just a little bit!

My main airbrush is a Central Pneumatic, double action, from Harbor Freight....20 bucks!

Get your variable right (pressure, thinner, etc) and you can do that German "spagetti" camo in 1/72! I haven't done that finish myself, but I have no apprehention about doing mottling in 1/72.

Almost "spagetti", but not quite...these lines are roughly 1/8th" +/-.

 

 

 

 

Im not great with an airbrush, but I have been saying basically what you are alluding to here for many years. Most airbrushes will take you where you need to go, it's mostly about learning how to use your brush. I know some guys have to have the best, and think if they dont have the best then the job can not get done. I never understood that logic. I have had the same Paasche VL for many years, it's not a world class brush, but it can do most anything needed, same said for my Badger 150, just a basic old brush, but a good brush and a great price.