I did a bad thing to my airbrush.. Can it be saved?

One simple tip and it's worth repeating. NEVER thin Vallejo paints with thinner that contain alcohol. As you have experienced it does leave a gummy mess.

I use Model Master acrylics and I thin using Testors Universal thinner.

I think I'd best let someone else comment on thinning Model Master paint with other than their acrylic airbrush thinner as I don't have much experience with MM acryls.

I wonder why you are going through so much thinner?

I really like the AK Interactuive and model masters (I wish they came in a squeeze bottle though and bigger portions) I think Vallejo has a great selection in colors And seem to be easier to obtain over the AK PAINTS.. Honestly, I think the model master paints spray the best, with my limited knowledge. I was using those with the AK thinner and it was working very well when I first started. 

Youll probably say to use Modeal Master thinner but is there an alternative to that.. I seem to go through a lot of thinner and a small tiny container of thinner doesn't last but a few days.. Now, I can stretch out a big bottle of windex  a month!! Lol..

what do you think??

Sounds like a good plan, Paul.

Once you have the proper thinner, and some experience spraying Model Air, you should be able to thin the Model Color with the proprietary Vallejo Airbrush thinner and make it work ok (especially since you already accomplished that with the , er, ah, Windex (sorry, Don, I don't like playing Mr Wizard with paints either, we agree).

One more hint if you're placing an online order anyway; consider buying a bottle or two of the relatively new Vallejo Flow Improver.

If you decide to proceed forward with Vallejo you may start noticing the tip of your airbrush drying out (it's called dry tip, a common trouble with acrylics). It's very annoying and has caused folk to abandon spraying Vallejo. The aforementioned new product virtually eliminates the trouble. A drop or two is all it takes.

patrick206

Actually your airbrush does have that bit, pictured between the handle and body. It's the teflon bearing, installed in the metal fixture, (TINY."

If you take the guts completely out of the body, look in the back of the airbrush with a small light. At the end of the larger body chamber, (looking forward,) you'll see the small hole that the needle passes through. A light held at the front of the body will illuminate the hole also.

There is a slot meant for a very small slotted screwdiver, back that out and the fixture comes free, the very small, white teflon bearing is inside that. A good soak in lacquer thinner or acetone will start to dissolve it, then you can use the needle to pass back and forth to clean it up.

To re-install the bearing assembly, start it back into the threads of the airbrush using a toothpick, be positive you don't have it cross threaded, before cinching it down with the scredriver. When you do have it seated, the adjustments are quite sensitive. You only want to feel a minor drag on the needle, as you check for proper fit, small turns of the screwdriver work best.

Have you checked "Don's airbrush tips" site yet????

Keep on truckin,' it sounds like your getting closer. You'll feel a real sense of accomplishment when you get it sorted properly, and you'll for sure know your VL much better.

Patrick

 

THanks for all your help, Patrick. I certainly more educated about this airbrush now for sure. And I A LOT more educated on Paints and thinners. Knowing more about the that aspect will probably save me tons of headaches with my airbrush..

Greg

Paul, you're getting great advice from Patrick and guru Don. Great progress, keep it up!

Just a quick 2 more cents; Model Color isn't the best for airbrushing. It works but has to be thinned very heavily and that would scare me with the Windex. Glad the Windex trick worked, at least you proved something.

I love the Keys. You're isolated, but UPS and the USPS can find you as easily as me , so if you feel like it opt for a bottle or 3 of Model Air and a couple bottles of thinner (you need none with Model Air, really).

If you want to proceed with Vallejo, that is.....

 

Paul, you're getting great advice from Patrick and guru Don. Great progress, keep it up!

Just a quick 2 more cents; Model Color isn't the best for airbrushing. It works but has to be thinned very heavily and that would scare me with the Windex. Glad the Windex trick worked, at least you proved something.

I love the Keys. You're isolated, but UPS and the USPS can find you as easily as me , so if you feel like it opt for a bottle or 3 of Model Air and a couple bottles of thinner (you need none with Model Air, really).

If you want to proceed with Vallejo, that is.....

Actually your airbrush does have that bit, pictured between the handle and body. It's the teflon bearing, installed in the metal fixture, (TINY."

If you take the guts completely out of the body, look in the back of the airbrush with a small light. At the end of the larger body chamber, (looking forward,) you'll see the small hole that the needle passes through. A light held at the front of the body will illuminate the hole also.

There is a slot meant for a very small slotted screwdiver, back that out and the fixture comes free, the very small, white teflon bearing is inside that. A good soak in lacquer thinner or acetone will start to dissolve it, then you can use the needle to pass back and forth to clean it up.

To re-install the bearing assembly, start it back into the threads of the airbrush using a toothpick, be positive you don't have it cross threaded, before cinching it down with the scredriver. When you do have it seated, the adjustments are quite sensitive. You only want to feel a minor drag on the needle, as you check for proper fit, small turns of the screwdriver work best.

Have you checked "Don's airbrush tips" site yet????

Keep on truckin,' it sounds like your getting closer. You'll feel a real sense of accomplishment when you get it sorted properly, and you'll for sure know your VL much better.

Patrick

Don Wheeler

If you are going to experiment with paints and thinners, don't do it in the airbrush.  Put a dab in a saucer and stir it around.  See if it clumps or thins nicely.  Try brushing it on something and see if it dries well.  Then, if you see no problems, try spraying it.

If paint is getting past the needle seal while you are painting, the seal is leaking and needs either adjustment or a new seal.  It's a very sensitive adjustment.  Just a tiny turn makes a big difference.

Don

 

EDIT.. NEVERMIND.. I see where the bearing is now.. THe last painting session didnt have any paint on the needle at all so maybe its all fixed! 

If you are going to experiment with paints and thinners, don't do it in the airbrush.  Put a dab in a saucer and stir it around.  See if it clumps or thins nicely.  Try brushing it on something and see if it dries well.  Then, if you see no problems, try spraying it.

If paint is getting past the needle seal while you are painting, the seal is leaking and needs either adjustment or a new seal.  It's a very sensitive adjustment.  Just a tiny turn makes a big difference.

To remove or adjust the needle seal, remove the handle, needle, and trigger assembly.  See the parts breakdown photo on this page.  The seal is shown between the handle and body.

Don

patrick206

If the AB sprays somewhat OK, it's a step in the right direction. If the needle gets buggered front to back, I have to think it's the needle/bearing fit. It may not be damaged, but not functioning well due to the gummed up Vallejo/X-20A mixture. Some lacquer thinner on the needle and several runs back and forth through the bearing might clean it well.

If you feel like it, try removing the bearing and it's threaded metal fixture. If the bearing internal bore is just gummed up, that might put you back in biz.  

I don't mean to preach, but I think most modelers would agree it's not a good practice to mix ingredients from different manufacturers. The incompatibility issue can lead to grief. Glad you're making some headway. Keep us posted.

Patrick

 

Greg, Im using Model Color. Its the only one thats available locally, sort of.  (if you all two hours away locally. I live on an island) 

I used windex and it works incredibly well.. It sprays so damn good and I get amazing coverage and better yet, no clogs. Havent checked the needle yet though. Thats defintely the trick. Like you said, I dont know what it does to the intergrity of the paint but it sure looks good. I cant seem to find the vallejo thinner is a large bottle.. 32Ml bottle will go very fast. THey need to make that stuff in like a wine barrel or something.

Paul, you asked what thinner to use, then....

I agree with Patrick and tend to use a paints own thinner, in this case, Vallejo airbrush thinner.

BTW, are you spraying Vallejo Model Color or Model Air? (Big difference)

IMO, thinning Vallejo with water isn't the best for airbrush thinning. (Works the treat for hand-brushing though).

The only other thing I've thinned Vallejo with is Windex, believe it or not. I'd not do this again because I have no idea what it might be doing to the integrity of the paint, but it works otherwise. (sometimes folks get confused and say Windex mixed with Vallejo makes a mess. I've said this myself in error, it's not Windex (ammonia) that's turns Vallejo to glue, it's alcohol.

I can't comment on thinning AK, no experience.

If the AB sprays somewhat OK, it's a step in the right direction. If the needle gets buggered front to back, I have to think it's the needle/bearing fit. It may not be damaged, but not functioning well due to the gummed up Vallejo/X-20A mixture. Some lacquer thinner on the needle and several runs back and forth through the bearing might clean it well.

If you feel like it, try removing the bearing and it's threaded metal fixture. If the bearing internal bore is just gummed up, that might put you back in biz.  

I don't mean to preach, but I think most modelers would agree it's not a good practice to mix ingredients from different manufacturers. The incompatibility issue can lead to grief. Glad you're making some headway. Keep us posted.

Patrick

Ok heres the Verdict.

First I used some water instead of the Tamiya thinner with Vallejo Olive Drab 1:1 Ratio... It sprayed pretty good but was too clear but after a while it gummed up too. It was better with the water though. I tried a 2:1 Paint to water but it wouldnt spray right and clogged. 

I then threw some Model Master Acrylic Paint thinned with Tamiya Thinner 1:1 Ratio though this air brush and it worked fine.. I placed 30 drops of thinner and 30 drops of Paint and emptied the whole cup on the bottom of my B-25j (wrong color now but oh well) The coverage was good I didnt have any problems, maybe a touch of that small dot pattern when spraying but looks good.. I disassembled the air brush and the enitre needle was still covered in paint, from back to front.. Im not sure if thats normal or not. The nozzle was a little clogged up but not too bad. Im not sure if those things are normal or not.. 

Will I have the same problem with the AK interactive  and the tamiya thinner too now?

VERDICT: I guess its the paint, Greg hit it right on the head but I think there is still a problem becasue that paint is getting to the back of the needle..

You guys have all been awesome! Great advice from every one and I really appreciate it!

PaulieF

 

 

Greg

Thinning Vallejo with Tamiya X-20 or anything with alchohol will clog your a/b and create a real mess to clean up, this may be a part of, if not the problem.

Hope this helps, at least in the future.

Hope you get this sorted soon.

 

 

 Vallejo has their own thinner, I've used it, it's fully compatible. Water will also work, but I didn't find the results as good as the thinner.

 

Patrick

 

 

what should I use?? It seemed to be working fine for weeks...thanks

 

Don W and Greg are on point, if nothing has been damaged by handling, (most likely would be the nozzle,) then likely you have a Vallejo/alcohol mess internally. X-20A smells just like alcohol, the label states butyl alcohol is one of the ingredients.

I once forgot the incompatibility problem with Vallejo and alcohol, I learned a lot about cleaning an airbrush in that episode. It turns thick and gummy, only a proper cleaner and implements like brushes will be sufficient for removal.

First, avoid soaking the airbrush body in any cleaner with the air valve in place. Second, a complete dis-assembly of the components will give access to the body chambers that are clogged. 

Soaking the individual front bits, (nozzle and aircap,) in lacquer thinner will start to break down the mess, making removal easier. Since the needle was buggered far back, I imagine the bearing might also be.

Removal of the needle bearing is easy, just a tiny flat blade screwdriver will do it. Soak that as well, cleaning it with cloth and brush. Re-assemble and adjust the bearing nut for desired drag, just a bit is needed. Follow Don's advice on his site, use a toothpick to get the threads started, then the screwdriver to tighten. Very tiny part.

Using a small LED penlight will show you where the body internals are clogged, the interdental brush, sharpened toothpicks and cloth bits will do well for you.

Don's trick to use paper towel rolled into a fine point will go far in reaching into the tiny bits like the nozzle. Please have a good look at "Don's airbrush tips," all you need to know will be found there. Plus, either consult your manual or look it up on line, the parts placements will be seen there.

Hope you get it sorted soon, best luck.

Patrick 

Greg

Thinning Vallejo with Tamiya X-20 or anything with alchohol will clog your a/b and create a real mess to clean up, this may be a part of, if not the problem.

Hope this helps, at least in the future.

Hope you get this sorted soon.

 

what should I use?? It seemed to be working fine for weeks...thanks

I wouldn't spray acetone.  The fumes would be bad.  But, it's a good cleaner for soaking small parts or swabbing.  Even then, you want good ventilation.  But, that's true for lacquer thinner too. Protect your hands and lungs.

Don

Thinning Vallejo with Tamiya X-20 or anything with alchohol will clog your a/b and create a real mess to clean up, this may be a part of, if not the problem.

Hope this helps, at least in the future.

Hope you get this sorted soon.

Don Wheeler

Are you sure you're not fighting some bad paint?  Usually, if an airbrush sprays water OK, it's also good for paint.

Lacquer thinner is a good cleaner, but acetone will cut most anything.

Don

 

ill try different paint tonight...also, I can spray the acetone right through the airbrush or do you mean like soaking it in acetone?

Greg

What did you thin the Vallejo with?

 

Been using ak interactive thinner for a while then got some tamiya x20A.. Both were working fine.. I had no issues. I've tried 2 different Vallejo colors and both a messing up... I'll try a different paint tonight...

What did you thin the Vallejo with?

Are you sure you're not fighting some bad paint?  Usually, if an airbrush sprays water OK, it's also good for paint.

Lacquer thinner is a good cleaner, but acetone will cut most anything.

Don

Don, I went back to it early and dislodged some big hunk of crap in there and it seemed to work fine for about a minute and then the needle gunked up all the way to the back again. It started spraying a fine dot pattern which is what its doing now.. Before big pieces of stuff were coming out. If I spray water through it, the spray pattern seems fine. Ill mess with it some more when i get home..Driving me crazy! 

GMorrison

What is your paint mix? Are you using the wrong combination of paint/ thinner? You seem to be liberal with the lacquer thinner. Are you using that with paint?

 

For a large nozzle like the VL, you can twist a piece of paper towel to a point and use it with solvent to clean the nozzle.  There's a photo on this page.  A shaved down toothpick is a safe way to dislodge stubborn paint.  Don't jam anything in there that might split the fragile tip.

If you hold the nozzle up to a light source and look in the large end with a magnifier, you should see nothing but the shiny inside surface.

Don

What is your paint mix? Are you using the wrong combination of paint/ thinner? You seem to be liberal with the lacquer thinner. Are you using that with paint?

I never use Q-tips or cotton when cleaning my airbrush. I use simple scraps of cloth/towels. While mrmike mentioned one technique to clean nozzles, I use pipe cleaners to clean out nozzles. They're a cheap alternative to mrmike's idea.