Mixing Vallejo Model Air and Tamiya Acrylics

oldermodelguy

Do you feel the Rustoleum primer gives you a scale coating of paint and good leveling ? I've used Krylon, the light gray was good ( thin coats and smooth), especially if the can was heated in hot water. The red oxide I liked but the coats to me were too thick IMO, great color though. Course a lot of this has to do with the scale of the model too, at the time it was 1/64th scale. This was about the time we lost Floquil.

 

Yes, because over the years (20 years in fact), I’ve learned and mastered on how to spray in several light coats to give me the best results. As far as Krylon goes, they’re long banished from my stash of rattle can paints. Had a few model kits ruined by that piece of garbage brand of spray paint over the years. Never again...

ZAT

I'll have a spray booth up and running in a few days, but even then I think the rattle cans may be a bit much.

Understood re the stinky oil-based paints.

The Stynylrez mentioned above is water-based and oderless. Like omg, it is my go-to primer now. A fellow forum member sent me a bottle a couple years back, I've never looked back.

I failed to mention that my problem with Vallejo primer is it hasn't adhered very well for me. Otherwise, Vallejo is my go-to paint.

Greg

 

 

ZAT

I bought 2 bottles of Vallejo Primer

 

 

I'm sorry about yet another negative comment, but Vallejo primer doesn't work very well. It has not bite, you need something like Mustang Joe is recommending.

Too bad about the Mr Surfacer being out of stock, that stuff works very well.

 

LOL!!  No worries, its not like I bought a lifetime supply.  Vallejo offers the ability to not need to thin, which is why I wanted to try their products.  I played with a couple of test parts last night with the black primer and shot the 3 colors for the main body (Dark Green, Ocean Grey and Med Sky grey).  Not horrible, I will need to make sure to do a decen job with the white mottling (not sure what its actually called) as the black primer turns the shades a bit dark.

I'm in an apartment, and rattle cans tend to stink up the garage a bit more than I like.  Its why I am working with acrylics as well.  Dont need neighbors getting high off my fumes... although they are college kids so maybe I can charge them to fund more builds :)  I'll have a spray booth up and running in a few days, but even then I think the rattle cans may be a bit much.

My go-to rattle can primer is Rustoleum wet/dry sandable primer. I’ve got it in 2 colors - white and grey.

ZAT

 

 

oldermodelguy

What primer are you buying into ? Just curious.

Also, I didn't think of a contaminated brush either, should have because I've been there done that.

 

 

 

 

I bought 2 bottles of Vallejo Primer (Grey and Panzerblack) since my LHS didn’t have Mr. Surfacer 1000 in black.  The model is molded in grey, so seeing the grey primer ain’t happening, so I wI’ll use the black primer. 

 

Suggestion here. I would scuff up the larger surfaces and what you can get at on the smaller surfaces. Spray your primer and heat set it, see how that goes for you.

I scuff my models with those foam fingernail pads the ladies use on their nails, my wife had several around here so I hooshcowed one and liked it and used it to death. So I went to Sally's beauty supply locally and bought a couple of the fine ones. A gray one and a white or creamy colored one. They seem to conform well and not wipe out fine details. When I painted 1:1 equipment final scuffing was always with scotch pads fwiw. I wouldn't up and quit on the Vallejo primer, try what I've said above and see how that goes for ya. Course I'm saying all this as a Stynylrez user and convert from solvent based primers and paints too for that matter..

I've settled in on Stynylrez primer bought through Amazon since moving to acrylics, very happy with it but I do thin it a little bit ( I guess most people don't but it's a bit thick to me). I also scuff larger surfaces so probably most primers would work pretty well given that. But even where I don't scuff ( small parts on spru trees etc) it's been fine.

I also tend to heat set it fwiw.

ZAT

I bought 2 bottles of Vallejo Primer

I'm sorry about yet another negative comment, but Vallejo primer doesn't work very well. It has not bite, you need something like Mustang Joe is recommending.

Too bad about the Mr Surfacer being out of stock, that stuff works very well.

The rattle can Tamiya primer works excellent. You wouldn't think it because it's rattle can but man that stuff WORKS.

oldermodelguy

What primer are you buying into ? Just curious.

Also, I didn't think of a contaminated brush either, should have because I've been there done that.

 

I bought 2 bottles of Vallejo Primer (Grey and Panzerblack) since my LHS didn’t have Mr. Surfacer 1000 in black.  The model is molded in grey, so seeing the grey primer ain’t happening, so I wI’ll use the black primer. 

What primer are you buying into ? Just curious.

Also, I didn't think of a contaminated brush either, should have because I've been there done that.

Tamiya acrylics are usually quite tenacious and adhere quite well under normal circumstances. Was the paint thoroughly mixed (ie. not just shaken for 30 seconds)?

The fact that the lack of adhesion occurred with both Vallejo and Tamiya acrylics suggests that some other factor may be involved. Is it possible that there was some sort of contamination on the brush? 

oldermodelguy

 

ZAT

 

 

I didnt use a primer, just cleaned the surfaces as best as I could with IPA and let dry to get all prints and stuff off.  The interior green stuck well to the model without primer.  Just the black had issues.

 

 

 

 

One day not using a good primer made for plastic applications could come around and bite you in the butt if you are going to stay with acrylics. Just sayin.

 

ZAT

 

 

I didnt use a primer, just cleaned the surfaces as best as I could with IPA and let dry to get all prints and stuff off.  The interior green stuck well to the model without primer.  Just the black had issues.

 

One day not using a good primer made for plastic applications could come around and bite you in the butt if you are going to stay with acrylics. Just sayin.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Did you apply a coat of primer before doing any painting? At first I thought you were mixing Vallejo and Tamiya paint together but that was not the case.

 

 

I didnt use a primer, just cleaned the surfaces as best as I could with IPA and let dry to get all prints and stuff off.  The interior green stuck well to the model without primer.  Just the black had issues.

Did you apply a coat of primer before doing any painting? At first I thought you were mixing Vallejo and Tamiya paint together but that was not the case.

oldermodelguy

What paint was the gray/green you sprayed ?

 

Sprayed Vallejo Model Air interior grey green (71.305) then tried MA black (71.057) for the instrument panels with weak coverage. When that wasnt working I pulled Tamiya XF-69 out and had the no stick issue. 

Solved it by reshooting the grey green and letting the MA black dry on the pallete and brushing it then. 

oldermodelguy

Somehow in my wild imagination ( since you didn't mention it) I was thinking you airbrushed the base coat and brushed the Tamiya over it. Still, either way it has to be good and dry.

 

Thats exactly what I did. Sprayed the grey-green base color and then tried to brush the matte black Model Air over it. Coverage stunk, so I pulled some Tamiya NATO black off the shelf to brush on, only to discover that the Tamiya black wouldn’t even stick to the green. It was like painting oil onto Teflon. 

I just need to Ed to be more patient and organized in my build process. Have some other part to work on while stuff is drying... that sort of thing. Too linear in my process since I’m just starting out so to speak. 

ZAT

In the meas time l, my cheap solution to the lack of coverage is to let the pain dry a bit on the pallet before brushing. This thickens it up to cover better. Only works for small areas and touch ups though.

That's a really good idea. I've done that myself and it was neglectful on my part not to mention it. Glad you already knew it!!!

BTW, don't know if you know or not, but Vallejo makes a line of acrylic formulated for brush painting called Vallejo Model Color. It is considered by some folk to be the best acrylic for hand-brushing.

Greg

Vallejo Model Air is designed for airbrush use. It is way to thin to hand brush. Doing so will require multiple coats and way more patience than I have.

Aint that the truth. Guess I will have to get a few staple colors that are brushable to supplement the thin airbrush jobbers or go back to the Tamiya paints. 

In the meas time l, my cheap solution to the lack of coverage is to let the pain dry a bit on the pallet before brushing. This thickens it up to cover better. Only works for small areas and touch ups though.  

ZAT

and began to apply the matte black to the instruments and noticed that the Vallejo MA doesnt do well with brushing. Doesnt cover for squat.

Vallejo Model Air is designed for airbrush use. It is way to thin to hand brush. Doing so will require multiple coats and way more patience than I have.

And I agree, curing time will solve the other problem. Never a good idea to rush one color on top of another, similar or dissimilar paints, IMO anyway.

Good luck!

I use prescription bottles ( empties) as test models for paints of all sorts, fwiw.. On these I test out my paint schemes and steps before moving to an expensive model.

It seems to me most acrylics will go over other acrylics if the base coat has fully cured, at least thus far that has been my experience. You can quicken that cure time by heat setting. Heat setting in my experience also helps adhesion. So you might try a test where you put down your base color, heat set with a hair dryer and then let it sit overnight. The next day try your second color and see what happens. But don't do it on your model, as I said, I use empty prescription bottles. Scrap plastic from spru trees etc works too.

I also prime most everything with a Badger Stynylrez poly acrylic primer coat or two. This helps adhesion of the base coat too. I know it's another step but to me a worthy one when putting down acrylic paint. Incidentally, I usually heat set the primer as well. And I generally scuff all smooth surfaces before applying any kind of paint to a model. I used to not do this in my enamel days but those days are now gone for me. I doubt I will be going back to enamels.

Not all acrylic paints are compatible. Tamiya's acrylics are not your typical acrylic paint. They contain alcohols in addition to water. (No, they are not lacquers). Some acrylic paints don't do well alcohol, Vallejo is one of them, or so I've heard. Alcohols have a bit more "dissolving power" than plain water does, so in theory a Tamiya overcoat could eat through an under-layer of acrylic.

I'm not saying Tamiya can never be applied over Vallejo. I've not tried it myself, but if it were me I would let the Vallejo fully dry for a day or more before I sprayed the Tamiya, and I would spray it in very light coats. I can't guarantee it would work, but I would be surprised if it didn't. But again, I haven't tried. I have tried applying Vallejo on top of Tamiya, and that works just fine.

This is why I always test paint some scrap plastic whenever I paint layers of different brands of paint. And I always allow all coats to fully cure before covering the with a different brand.