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Testor enamel questions

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  • Member since
    April 2019
Testor enamel questions
Posted by Fesan on Tuesday, April 16, 2019 9:00 PM

Hi guys. I have a bunch of testor enamel paints i been using and new to this hobby. I been having an issue finding how much i should be thining the paint to keep it smooth with no paint brush marks. I always  see keep it thin and do multiple layers but is there a too thin for the paint? Also does my metallics, gloss, semi gloss, and flats all get thinned the same? The air brush be in ordered soon finally off the laid of list so will have income to spend on one that will bring a whole new set of questions.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 10:21 AM

I thin differently for airbrush and brush painting. For brushing, I use the enamel straight out of a fresh bottle, but the more the bottle has been used, the more I have to thin it.  Thinning is not quite as critical for brush painting, but, yes, you can thin it too much.  You can experiment, and keep some scrap plastic around to experiment with, to learn the optimum thinning.

In some ways I think brush painting is actually more difficult than airbrushing.  Getting a finish without brushmarks is very difficult with gloss enamel, easier with matt.  With matt paint, the brushmarks are still there- just harder to see.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 12:22 PM

You just sometimes need to cut it a little bit to aid flow out. Think smaller amounts first. 5%,10% of the volume of paint. I always kind of liked mineral spirits for that fwiw. Just test it for yourself, use decent brushes and have fun.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 12:24 PM

Some of the british modeler sites emphasize brush painting more that we seem to in the US. Having some good 1/4" wide flat brushes helps.

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 1:42 PM

Ok thanks for the tips guys. This may sound dumb but do i use my paint o have to do a black wash or do they make stuff for that? (think thats what is called the black i would put into a seam for a door jam or something to make it pop)

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 3:54 PM

Fesan

Ok thanks for the tips guys. This may sound dumb but do i use my paint o have to do a black wash or do they make stuff for that? (think thats what is called the black i would put into a seam for a door jam or something to make it pop)

 

That's a whole topic on it's own. I can say that if my base color was enamel then the seam wash or pin wash would be acrylic.   Starting out you might want to buy a black wash. But don't put enamel washes over enamel color coats please or we will be answering the questions of what did I do wrong next !? Vallejo ( for one company) makes wash sets of acrylics or you can buy separate bottles I believe. I think if you want to accent panel lines your best option is a pin wash. You will get good results with acrylic pin wash on enamel color coat.

Someone else might come along and explain further.

What model are you painting ?

Here is a link to some black acrylic washes ( you might have to copy it):  http://www.hobbylinc.com/vallejo-black-wash-17ml-6-pack-hobby-and-model-acrylic-paint-73201?source=froogle&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8Y2IpoTY4QIVUVmGCh3q3wBYEAQYAyABEgKA7vD_BwE

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 5:03 PM

The kits is a 1/25 scale AMT gt-350 mustang car. I just recently did a revell as my first one lets say it was less then satisfactory but was also first car in 15 years so not beating myself up over it. 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 5:22 PM

Those Revell car kits are pretty good, I'm in the middle of a 69 Mustang myself. It and the Mercer are on hold for the summer now though.

Ya know if you don't have an airbrush that Testors or Tamiya rattle cans can produce a mighty nice finish anyway. I used them for years decades ago and some of the results were very very good and it's almost a no brainer to put down.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 6:09 PM

I recently botched up an AMT Avanti, first AMT kit I had built in a long time. God what a mess. 

Of course the other nice nexus with car models and spray cans is that you can get all sorts of colors at the auto parts store.

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 7:08 PM

My botch was using model master spray can of metallic black. Car looked nice while was painting out side got something in paint. Sanded it down looked good reshot it was happy so decided to clear it few days later. Was happy with the clear went to pick it up to move it somewhere safe to dry dropped it in the dirt. Needless to say got as much as i could out so car got character now for my first one lol.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 7:25 PM

Yeah and the gearheads don't look kindly on anything other than pristine finishes.

 

Now, the treadheads on the other hand... "needs more rust".

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 7:35 PM

For what happened and how it looks i am happy with it for my first build in 15 or so years since my last one. It will be the platform to make the next one look better. One of these builds i have will finally look of the quality i see all over the forums one of these days.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 7:36 PM

Well you can't blame the rattle cans for that boo boo ! A lot of people never leave rattle cans for car model bodies. And also a lot of other people grab a Paasche H with medium needle and shoot it like a rattle can spray pattern. What ever works.

 

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 10:44 PM

I been looking at an iwata eclipse hp-cs to go with seems like they are good quality and always see good reviews of them

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, April 18, 2019 4:52 AM

Fesan

I been looking at an iwata eclipse hp-cs to go with seems like they are good quality and always see good reviews of them

 

 
 Painting model cars is different from painting flat armor or doing little detail squirts etc. You need a good hefty flow of paint and broad coverage on most car bodies and of course you want the shine which means good overlapping patterns. And you want the paint to flow out.

I don't agree 100% with everything said in this video ( like jar size for instance) but just watch and look at the result ( you might have to copy the link): https://youtu.be/lCKZ_fo4eW0

In the video it was mentioned that he uses the #3 needle set, fwiw that is a .77 on the Paasche H. He also mentioned that this was a Don Yotes technique, well Don was never alone on that ! But Don has won more model contests with his paint work than most of us have built models, never mind enter them in contests at all. Not that I'm advocating the Paasche H exclusively but Don does. I have one but mostly use my 40+ yo Badger 200. But the point is you need the tool you need and not because the tool is pretty looking.

 
 
  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, April 18, 2019 8:41 AM

oldermodelguy
 Painting model cars is different from painting flat armor or doing little detail squirts etc. You need a good hefty flow of paint and broad coverage on most car bodies and of course you want the shine which means good overlapping patterns. And you want the paint to flow out.

I don't agree 100% with everything said in this video ( like jar size for instance) but just watch and look at the result ( you might have to copy the link): https://youtu.be/lCKZ_fo4eW0

In the video it was mentioned that he uses the #3 needle set, fwiw that is a .77 on the Paasche H. He also mentioned that this was a Don Yotes technique, well Don was never alone on that ! But Don has won more model contests with his paint work than most of us have built models, never mind enter them in contests at all. Not that I'm advocating the Paasche H exclusively but Don does. I have one but mostly use my 40+ yo Badger 200. But the point is you need the tool you need and not because the tool is pretty looking.

So i could always just get both and cover the bases have something for car bodies and use the iwata for other projects

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, April 18, 2019 8:51 AM

oldermodelguy
I don't agree 100% with everything said in this video ( like jar size for instance) but just watch and look at the result ( you might have to copy the link): https://youtu.be/lCKZ_fo4eW0

Your video is a good one. It explains very well how to bring out gloss using an airbrush. I use the same technique spraying Acrylics to a high gloss shine. I have a Badger 155 Anthem and it's capable of laying a heavy spray. That is all you need. 

I cringed about one thing though. The holder he was using is too short. He was not getting enough clearance from his hand to the car body. He in fact bumped the car body a few times during the spraying process. Be sure to get enough clearance. It is so easy to accidently bump the body. Been there--done that. 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, April 18, 2019 8:56 AM

Fesan

Ok thanks for the tips guys. This may sound dumb but do i use my paint o have to do a black wash or do they make stuff for that? (think thats what is called the black i would put into a seam for a door jam or something to make it pop)

 

The wash for a door line depends on the color of the body.  If it is a light color, a black line is too stark.  You need something darker than the body color but not too high a contrast.  I often just add some black to a bit of the body color to make a darker wash than the body color.  For a dark color body a black wash may be okay. 

Best bet is to go outside and look at some real cars, and note the contrast of the door edges- that contrast is what you should be shooting for.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, April 18, 2019 9:45 AM

Bakster

 

 
oldermodelguy
I don't agree 100% with everything said in this video ( like jar size for instance) but just watch and look at the result ( you might have to copy the link): https://youtu.be/lCKZ_fo4eW0

 

Your video is a good one. It explains very well how to bring out gloss using an airbrush. I use the same technique spraying Acrylics to a high gloss shine. I have a Badger 155 Anthem and it's capable of laying a heavy spray. That is all you need. 

I cringed about one thing though. The holder he was using is too short. He was not getting enough clearance from his hand to the car body. He in fact bumped the car body a few times during the spraying process. Be sure to get enough clearance. It is so easy to accidently bump the body. Been there--done that. 

 

I think Model Master enamels take a little less thinning, I go 60/40 paint to thinner on most of those but same results with a little more scale like finish. I vary my thinners too, I don't always use straight lacquer thinner. I don't know, I just like the atomization and fine nozzle adjustment in the Badger better than the Paasche H. I own both.
 
 
The 155 is a good choice too.
  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, April 18, 2019 10:02 AM

Fesan

 

So i could always just get both and cover the bases have something for car bodies and use the iwata for other projects

 

 
I just put the video up so you could see another approach with good results. You can buy what ever you want or how ever many airbrushes you want. I have the H and mostly use it for clear coats on my wifes ceramics. If you want an Iwata don't let anyone here stop you from getting it ! But you saw the flow of paint in that video for car bodies, that's what you are after. Hey some guys like a fan cap on a Paasche TG or TS, I may get one of those myself before I get planted and start pushing up daisies into eternity.
 
 
  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, April 18, 2019 10:51 AM

oldermodelguy
If you want an Iwata don't let anyone here stop you from getting it ! But you saw the flow of paint in that video for car bodies, that's what you are after.

I totally agree with that. I mentioned my Badger as a reference, and not as a recommendation. It could be construed as such; I just want to clarify that.

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, April 18, 2019 1:25 PM

I been looking for a good all arounder for the air brush. Later on i plane to try my hand at planes and armor but that little further down the road. I will take all recommendations i can been researching like a mad little scientist trying to find the air brush that will suit my needs the most. 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, April 18, 2019 2:03 PM

Bakster

 

I totally agree with that. I mentioned my Badger as a reference, and not as a recommendation. It could be construed as such; I just want to clarify that.

 

Ya he likes the HP-cs, which can be bought with or ordered for it, a .5 needle and nozzle. Nothing wrong with that, I just wanted to show that video and the result with a $50 option as the airbrush.

It's not the brush but how you use it. The Paasche H kit is one of the best bargains going out there for car body painting ( Don Yotes' brush of choice for all his custom paint work), you can hose that sucker right down with enamels that are mixed right. The medium tip on the Paasche H is .77. The large tip on my Badger is .7 or .75 but I find I use the medium most, which is .5 like the Iwata is and I believe your Anthom is as well.. I like .5 for model cars personally. I like .7 for varnishes on my wifes crafts and ceramics .

Course you have to think of compressors too lol ! Andy-X was shooting @ 35 psi, he needs a compressor that keeps flowing 35psi. With my .5 needle I shoot around 26 psi. I have a compressor that could handle 50 psi if I needed it but some of these little hobby compressors might not do the 35psi with .77 needle. I know one guy out there starved his Paasche H for air with the large needle which I think is 1.05.

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, April 18, 2019 2:25 PM

Fesan

I been looking for a good all arounder for the air brush. Later on i plane to try my hand at planes and armor but that little further down the road. I will take all recommendations i can been researching like a mad little scientist trying to find the air brush that will suit my needs the most. 

 

We have Don's Wheeler's airbrush guide, he's a member here at the forum too.

A lot of guys like the Iwata you were interested in for armor and I never tried it but I imagine with a .5 needle in it then it should shoot cars well too.. What you want in an all round airbrush is parts availability and options for two or thee size needle and nozzle sets, good warranty because it will be used most in all likelyhood..

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, April 18, 2019 2:29 PM

oldermodelguy

We have Don's airbrush guide here at the forum too ( sorry, I forgot his last name, someone will shout it out).

A lot of guys like the Iwata you were interested in for armor and I never tried it but I imagine with a .5 needle in it then it should shoot cars well too.. What you want in an all round airbrush is parts availability and options for two or thee size needle and nozzle sets, good warranty because it will be used most in all likelyhood..

 

the badger you have that you mentioned would it be comparable to the iwata? 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, April 18, 2019 3:00 PM

Fesan
 

 the badger you have that you mentioned would it be comparable to the iwata? 

 

 

My Badger is an older siphon design and single action. It's not the same, no. You want double action if armor and camo etc is in your not too distant future.
 
Edit: Don's last name is Wheeler. He has a tips blog, many airbrushes listed that he has reviewed etc.
  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, April 18, 2019 3:19 PM

Only thing i dont like about the iwata is the warranty with it being so small what attracted me to badgers first. Really think i am just starting to over think these air brushes

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Thursday, April 18, 2019 3:22 PM

Fesan

I been looking for a good all arounder for the air brush. Later on i plane to try my hand at planes and armor but that little further down the road. I will take all recommendations i can been researching like a mad little scientist trying to find the air brush that will suit my needs the most. 

 

As someone has mentioned, check out Don‘s airbrush site and figure out which airbrush fits your needs and budget.

 

https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, April 18, 2019 3:34 PM

Fesan

Only thing i dont like about the iwata is the warranty with it being so small what attracted me to badgers first. Really think i am just starting to over think these air brushes

 

 
Ya I probably haven't helped any with everything I put out there today ! We all have different tastes and preferences in tools, I just wanted you to see that a quality paint job can be put down on car bodies without going big bucks is all.
  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, April 18, 2019 3:54 PM

oldermodelguy
 
 
Ya I probably haven't helped any with everything I put out there today ! We all have different tastes and preferences in tools, I just wanted you to see that a quality paint job can be put down on car bodies without going big bucks is all.
 

if i do go with the iwata is it recommended i get the .5 needle also?

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