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Finishing Sequence

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  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Arizona
Finishing Sequence
Posted by Allessio77 on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 11:19 AM

This newbe finds painting and finishing to be the most confusing part of modeling. Huh?

Right now I am working on my 2nd model...USS Fletcher. I have primed it with Vallejo Surface Primer (in AB). Painted it with Vellejo Model AIR (in AB) and tried to paint certain parts with Vellejo Model Color (with AB and Brush...the AB was challanging).

Now I want to put a glossy clear coat on before Decaling and Panel Lining (I have Tamiya Panel Line on hand).

What kind and brand  of clear coat should I use on top of these acrylic paints? Should this step be with an oil based product?

Then, after I get the decals and panel lines set, what should the final coats be? Oil or acrylic? I have the Vellejo Matt Varnish on hand...is that a good final product (It appears to be acrylic)?

 

I find the terminalogy is bit confusing. Is a lacquar the same thing as an enamal? Seemingly, I have committed to Vellejo acrilyic paints as my mainstay, but I want to get the right products for the pre-decal and panel line, and then the fininshing coats.

 

And what role does the floor wax (Future?) play in all of this, if any?

Thanks a lot.

Tags: paints

1ST ADULT MODEL 03/2019

Point Zero Airbrush PA-260 Nozzle Dia .3mm

Vallejo and Tamiya Paints

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 11:45 AM

I think the answer is whatever the Tamiya Panel Line stuff goes over. I've never used it.

For decals on a ship like that, little spot areas for the numbers and name are all you need, no reason to spray the whole thing.

Just FYI "Future" isn't wax; it's just another form of clear acrylic finish. I like to use it on models like armor as a base for weathering, because I like to weather with highly diluted oil paint in Turpenoid, and those things are compatible. 

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:21 PM

I just looked, because, I have not used, the Tamiya Panel line accent colors, and they are enamel based. Therefore, you would need an acrylic barrier between the model and the panel liner. Future would be good to use as well as any other acrylic clear top coat. 

One point with Future, in my experience, let it cure (harden) for several days. I made the mistake of not letting it cure long enough and the enamel thinner I used did eat through it. 

 Bruce

 

 On the bench:  1/48 Eduard MiG-21MF

                        1/35 Takom Merkava Mk.I

 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:23 PM

Just to add to what was said,whatever your wash or panel liner is,the clear coat needs to be the opposite.

Acrylic wash = enamel or lacquer clear coat Enamel,oil,lacquer wash = acrylic clear coat

Find out what Tamiya Panel Liner is

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:23 PM

I would dispute GMs suggestion to just spot paint the gloss coat only where the decals will be applied. That will lead to a patchy appearance even after a flat top coat is applied over the gloss area and decal. It’s more consistent to have the entire surface area glossed before decals. And then apply your final flat coat for the uniform look.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:48 PM

stikpusher

I would dispute GMs suggestion to just spot paint the gloss coat only where the decals will be applied. That will lead to a patchy appearance even after a flat top coat is applied over the gloss area and decal. It’s more consistent to have the entire surface area glossed before decals. And then apply your final flat coat for the uniform look.

 

Uh huh...

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 3:02 PM

*sigh*.... Vallejo..... not a great product IMO. Heard too many horror stories about them. Leaves a vinyl-y finish, scratches too easily, hard to airbrush, too finicky, etc... But hey, it’s your choice of paints and you’re a brave man to use them.

I ditched whatever small collection (around 7 bottles) I had except their off white. I use it exclusively to hand brush D-Day stripings only. 

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 3:09 PM

Tojo72

Just to add to what was said,whatever your wash or panel liner is,the clear coat needs to be the opposite.

Acrylic wash = enamel or lacquer clear coat Enamel,oil,lacquer wash = acrylic clear coat

Find out what Tamiya Panel Liner is

 

 

That‘s sound advice to remember. Make a note of it for future references. I made a little note on my workspace as a reminder to prevent a potential disaster when working with washes.

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 4:22 PM

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

 

 
Tojo72

Just to add to what was said,whatever your wash or panel liner is,the clear coat needs to be the opposite.

Acrylic wash = enamel or lacquer clear coat Enamel,oil,lacquer wash = acrylic clear coat

Find out what Tamiya Panel Liner is

 

 

 

 

That‘s sound advice to remember. Make a note of it for future references. I made a little note on my workspace as a reminder to prevent a potential disaster when working with washes.

 

Yes that plus make sure all coats are thoroughly cured

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Arizona
Posted by Allessio77 on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 4:46 PM

So, with my original example, since I have used acrylic paint for primer and color coat, I could use an acrilyc gloss clear coat before putting on decals and Panel Liner. Panel liner would then have to be oil based (Tamiya Panel Liner is!) and the final coat matt could then be acrylic? Or can the final coat be either acrylic or oil based?

I do also have a Vallejo Model Wash, but It appears to be water based, so that would NOT be a good panel wash on top of my Acrylic Gloss Clear coat?

 

(I think I am going to move to Tamiya Acrylics in the future, based on the comments)

1ST ADULT MODEL 03/2019

Point Zero Airbrush PA-260 Nozzle Dia .3mm

Vallejo and Tamiya Paints

 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 5:25 PM

Allessio77

So, with my original example, since I have used acrylic paint for primer and color coat, I could use an acrilyc gloss clear coat before putting on decals and Panel Liner. Panel liner would then have to be oil based (Tamiya Panel Liner is!) and the final coat matt could then be acrylic? Or can the final coat be either acrylic or oil based?

I do also have a Vallejo Model Wash, but It appears to be water based, so that would NOT be a good panel wash on top of my Acrylic Gloss Clear coat?

 

(I think I am going to move to Tamiya Acrylics in the future, based on the comments)

 

You got it

In that case an acylic matte would be okay.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 5:39 PM

Here's my typical m/o for anything other than ships. I don't weather my ships except for the larger scale stuff.

Base colors- any and everything in combination.

Sealer coat- acrylic gloss clear like Future.

Decals.

Weathering- oil artists paints highly diluted in odorless Turpenoid.

Final coat- matte clear lacquer like Dull Coat.

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 7:30 PM

GMorrison

Here's my typical m/o for anything other than ships. I don't weather my ships except for the larger scale stuff.

Base colors- any and everything in combination.

Sealer coat- acrylic gloss clear like Future.

Decals.

Weathering- oil artists paints highly diluted in odorless Turpenoid.

Final coat- matte clear lacquer like Dull Coat.

 

 

Yup, those are pretty much the same order that I follow. Maybe some final weathering after the matte coat depending upon the subject.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November, 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, April 25, 2019 12:57 PM

I don't seem to have problems with Vallejo Model air ( someone mentioned it's lousy paint). You just need to mix it well and make sure there is no dried crud in the dropper tip that you unkowingly mix into the paint. It's good to add a touch of thinner and retarder to the blend when you go to spray it. And that's about it. It lays down like satin imo and they have a ton of colors to work with... They have a pretty complete sytem of paints. And if it's going to be clear coated anyway then it's shell not being as hard as some others really doesn't matter at all ( the same can be said for automotive base coat clear coat systems and cars are out driving around in the elements). Always put it down over primed surfaces, same with Model Master acryl......

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, April 26, 2019 9:08 AM

Lacquer and enamel are not the same thing.  They harden by separate methods.  Enamel is a slow hardening paint, lacquer is a very fast drying paint.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

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