Tamiya Fine Surface Primer

Although I haven't used Tamiya Fine Surface Primer, I use decanted Tamiya Grey Surface Primer.  What are you currently thinning yours with?  I use MEK to thin mine and haven't had any issues so far.  I'm using a Paasche H airbrush with a #1 needle/air cap and shoot it at about 20 PSI.  The other question is how did you mix it and your thinner?  I have mine in a 4 ounce mason jar and stir it with a wooden skewer, then I mix it with MEK in a bathroom-size paper Dixie cup before it goes into my airbrush.  I guess its possible that age may be an issue, since I haven't had my decanted Tamiya sit for more than a few months before being used up...but when it is, I just decant another full can, right on top of the old stuff still left in the jar.  If you're decanting only enough at a time to use at that moment, that might also be a factor.  No idea how it reacts when you do it that way.  I didn't want to deal with decanting every time I want to use it, so that's why I decant full cans into a 4 ounce mason jar.  No issues so far, except for the time I mistakenly put alcohol in the Dixie cup instead of MEK.  It didn't like that...turned it into grey cottage cheese.  Never have to use flow improvers or paint retarders with it.  Just plain old MEK does the job beautifully.

I spray it directly from the can,no issues with obscuring details or grainy finish,even on 1/35 figures.

I agree that doing it a bit at a time may be the problem.  It's unlikely that the mixture is uniform and probably heavy in solids by the end.  

After watching a few YouTube videos, I decided to vent the pressure, then cut the cans.  If you make the initial puncture near the top rim very small and don't agitate the can, it doesn't make a mess at all.   The pinhole will slowly vent pressure for a good half hour.  

Once all the pressure is gone, I cut the can, stir the contents and pour into Tamiya 46ml jars.  A 180ml spray will yield just over 70ml of product.  After letting it gas off,  put 35ml into each jar and fill to the 46 line with Tamiya Lacquer Thinner for a 3:1 mix.  

I've had very good results with this method.  

Here's my method of decanting and storage if you're interested in trying it.  Just copying and pasting a post I made in another thread.

Eaglecash867

For decanting, I usually get a box of 4 ounce mason jars with lids from somewhere like Amazon.  I take one of the lids and drill a big enough hole in the center of it for a 1/4" ID grommet.  That lid I use as my decanting lid.  Then I take the nozzle off the Tamiya primer can and attach a bendable party straw over the nozzle using epoxy and let that cure overnight.  After that, I take the can and shake it for a couple of minutes to get everything in it mixed and ready to spray.  Then its just a matter of putting the nozzle/straw assembly back on the can, screwing the lid with the grommet onto one of the mason jars, pushing the straw into the grommet, and spraying all of the paint through the straw into the jar.  Don't screw the cap on tightly when doing this, so the propellant can vent.  After that, leave the cap loose to allow the propellant to continue to come out of solution.  At about 2 hours, carefully stir the paint by hand (no motorized mixers) a little bit at a time...it will boil quickly as the propellant gas continues to come out, so you have to occasionally stop stirring to keep it from boiling over.  When it no longer boils when stirred, you can screw the lid on tight and you've got lots of airbrushable Tamiya primer that will be good for weeks or even months of primering model parts. When airbrushing it, I find it best to put a little bit of the primer into a Dixie paper bathroom cup, and then thin/mix it with MEK.  You'll have to stir the primer in the mason jar each time because there is a thick, sticky sludge that settles to the bottom.  That sludge is normal though, so don't worry that your primer is drying out.  You just have to stir it each time.  I usually use a wooden skewer for stirring it since its too thick for a motorized stirrer.

MJY65

I agree that doing it a bit at a time may be the problem.  It's unlikely that the mixture is uniform and probably heavy in solids by the end.  

After watching a few YouTube videos, I decided to vent the pressure, then cut the cans.  If you make the initial puncture near the top rim very small and don't agitate the can, it doesn't make a mess at all.   The pinhole will slowly vent pressure for a good half hour.  

Once all the pressure is gone, I cut the can, stir the contents and pour into Tamiya 46ml jars.  A 180ml spray will yield just over 70ml of product.  After letting it gas off,  put 35ml into each jar and fill to the 46 line with Tamiya Lacquer Thinner for a 3:1 mix.  

 

I've had very good results with this method.  

 

How do you cut the can?

Thanks for posting this.

Dave

Tojo72

I spray it directly from the can,no issues with obscuring details or grainy finish,even on 1/35 figures.

 

Tojo, yours may be the easiest solution. I guess why I don't spray from the can is for fear of going too heavy and melting the plastic. It doesnt sound like you have that problem though. I may have to try this. 

dlh,

A small tin snip goes through it very easily.  It's thicker than a beer/Coke can, but not much.  I'd imagine even a heavy kitchen shear would do just fine.

https://www.menards.com/main/tools/hand-tools/shears-snips-bolt-cutters/midwest-snips-reg-knifti-cut-utility-shear/mwt-657n/p-1444440244513-c-1550852385007.htm?tid=2950448002749638500&ipos=30

Eaglecash867

Although I haven't used Tamiya Fine Surface Primer, I use decanted Tamiya Grey Surface Primer.  What are you currently thinning yours with?  I use MEK to thin mine and haven't had any issues so far.  I'm using a Paasche H airbrush with a #1 needle/air cap and shoot it at about 20 PSI.  The other question is how did you mix it and your thinner?  I have mine in a 4 ounce mason jar and stir it with a wooden skewer, then I mix it with MEK in a bathroom-size paper Dixie cup before it goes into my airbrush.  I guess its possible that age may be an issue, since I haven't had my decanted Tamiya sit for more than a few months before being used up...but when it is, I just decant another full can, right on top of the old stuff still left in the jar.  If you're decanting only enough at a time to use at that moment, that might also be a factor.  No idea how it reacts when you do it that way.  I didn't want to deal with decanting every time I want to use it, so that's why I decant full cans into a 4 ounce mason jar.  No issues so far, except for the time I mistakenly put alcohol in the Dixie cup instead of MEK.  It didn't like that...turned it into grey cottage cheese.  Never have to use flow improvers or paint retarders with it.  Just plain old MEK does the job beautifully.

 

i never thought of decanting the entire can in one sitting. I need to consider that as an option too. I have been doing as needed and I am seeing some horrific results. The worst was when doing my Jonny Quest Dragonfly build. I had massive buildup near the wing roots. Vortices probably contributed to that but granular build up was evident throughout the fuselage. In the case of the wing roots, the paint turned yellow, and I am using white primer! The more we banter, the more I think it's because of how I decant.

The saving grace in all this is that I was able to sand the problem away to a nice smooth finish. But, something is not right, and I need a better plan.

I forgot to mention the solvent I use. I am using Tamiyas lacquer thinner.

MJY65

I agree that doing it a bit at a time may be the problem.  It's unlikely that the mixture is uniform and probably heavy in solids by the end.  

After watching a few YouTube videos, I decided to vent the pressure, then cut the cans.  If you make the initial puncture near the top rim very small and don't agitate the can, it doesn't make a mess at all.   The pinhole will slowly vent pressure for a good half hour.  

Once all the pressure is gone, I cut the can, stir the contents and pour into Tamiya 46ml jars.  A 180ml spray will yield just over 70ml of product.  After letting it gas off,  put 35ml into each jar and fill to the 46 line with Tamiya Lacquer Thinner for a 3:1 mix.  

 

I've had very good results with this method.  

 

Interesting. I will look into this more too.

I agree with Tojo and Bakster.  I have been using this stuff for years, sprayed directly out of the can, and always get beautiful results. Just keep the can moving and spray lightly.

I do not feel it is necessary to go through all that trouble as discussed here.

MJY65

I decided to vent the pressure, then cut the cans.  If you make the initial puncture near the top rim very small and don't agitate the can, it doesn't make a mess at all.   The pinhole will slowly vent pressure for a good half hour.  

Is this safe?  Puncturing a pressurised container doesn't sound like a good idea to me - they carry warnings against doing just that.  Just my 2 pence worth (we don't have cents}

Hutch6390

Is this safe?  Puncturing a pressurised container doesn't sound like a good idea to me - they carry warnings against doing just that.  Just my 2 pence worth (we don't have cents}

I'm sure one could make quite a mess or possibly rupture the can in dramatic fashion if done in haste.   I use a needle sharp automatic center punch set at low impact and make the first hole near the intersection of the top and side seam where the can is strongest.  I guess a paint infused shrapnel injury is always a possibility.

Well, there is always my method, which gets all of the paint out of the can in the way the can was designed to be emptied.  Its safer and won't make a mess.  Drilling the hole in the mason jar lid and installing the grommet takes less than a minute, and the lid gets used over and over again.  Attaching the straw to the paint nozzle with epoxy involves less than a minute of work.  Spraying all the paint to transfer it to a jar takes about 3 minutes.  The rest of the time required doesn't require any intervention, so you are free to do other things while the epoxy cures...and later while the propellant comes out of solution.  No need to use sharp metal tools to create sharp metal edges either.  

As for decanting versus spraying directly from the can.  You get a lot more out of a can of primer by decanting and airbrushing, because you're not losing a bunch of it to the air and to overspray.  Almost all of it goes right where you want it. 

Eaglecash867

Attaching the straw to the paint nozzle with epoxy involves less than a minute of work. 

I'm definitely willing to try your method, but having trouble visualizing the orientation of the straw. I'm picturing the nozzle being blocked by the wall of the straw.  Obviously, that's not the case.  Any chance of a photo?

The nozzle cores on Tamiya cans stand out from the rest of the button/nozzle assembly and they are very close to being the same diameter as the inner diameter of the party straw.  I gently clamp it in my table-top vise.

In my case, the side of my ancient microwave oven makes a great place to tape the straw so it stands straight up after setting it over the nozzle core.

Then I mix up a small amount of epoxy, and run a bead of it around the base of the straw.  It will just kind of naturally form a fillet.

Did this all just now tonight.  It actually takes about 5 minutes to get everything together and get to the point in the last photo.  I'll post more pics tomorrow of the whole thing on the can and plugged into the grommet.

Way too complicated for me,will stick with the can,if I have to worry about  then I will give up the hobby 

Whatever works for you.

Tojo72

Whatever works for you.

Exactly.  My posts in this thread were in response to the OPs original question about decanted Tamiya primer.  Decanting and airbrushing works best for my situation because I don't have to coordinate that activity with whether or not its too hot, too cold, too windy, or raining outside.  Might be why the OP is doing it too.  I'm pretty sure its not because he thought it would be easier than simply spraying it out of the can.  Its no more complicated than gluing one piece of plastic to another piece of plastic though, and only needs to be done every six months or so.   

Good morning Guys--happy Monday to ya. 

Firstly--I want to thank every one of you that responded! I really appreciate that you took the time and that you are sharing your knowledge! All of you have me reconsidering how I approach priming. I am leaning towards my on the go decanting as the problem. I may be gassing out certain things that in the end affects the remaining paint within the can. 

I love Tojos simplicity method, but I am still interested in Eaglecash's decanting process.  Sometimes, there are small tight interiors you need to get into that could be difficult to reach using a can. I am currently working on a project like that. Maybe I am wrong...maybe it would work. 

Either way--as of now-- I am still interested in decanting. EC-- please DO finish with your decanting process. Btw--McDonalds soda straws are a perfect fit for the Tamiya nozzels. It's like the engineers designed it that way. If I am careful, I don't even have to secure it because it's a press fit situation. But, securing it is a wiser idea and I have found that wrapping tape around the assembly works too. 

Bakster

Either way--as of now-- I am still interested in decanting. EC-- please DO finish with your decanting process. Btw--McDonalds soda straws are a perfect fit for the Tamiya nozzels. It's like the engineers designed it that way. If I am careful, I don't even have to secure it because it's a press fit situation. But, securing it is a wiser idea and I have found that wrapping tape around the assembly works too. 

Will do, Bakster.  It was actually fully cured before I left for work this morning, but that was at 3:30AM...LOL.  I'll get the rest of the pics posted when I get home this afternoon.  Pretty much any straw works, but the nice little bendy part of the party straws make it really easy to just set the jar and can next to each other on the benchtop and just spray away.  Having to hold either item in your hands while doing this gets really uncomfortable, really quickly...the can and jar get COLD from the pressure release.

Eaglecash867

 

 

Bakster

Either way--as of now-- I am still interested in decanting. EC-- please DO finish with your decanting process. Btw--McDonalds soda straws are a perfect fit for the Tamiya nozzels. It's like the engineers designed it that way. If I am careful, I don't even have to secure it because it's a press fit situation. But, securing it is a wiser idea and I have found that wrapping tape around the assembly works too. 

 

 

Will do, Bakster.  It was actually fully cured before I left for work this morning, but that was at 3:30AM...LOL.  I'll get the rest of the pics posted when I get home this afternoon.  Pretty much any straw works, but the nice little bendy part of the party straws make it really easy to just set the jar and can next to each other on the benchtop and just spray away.  Having to hold either item in your hands while doing this gets really uncomfortable, really quickly...the can and jar get COLD from the pressure release.

 

Wow! This sounds like quite an automation process. Cant wait to see the rest!

Here are the photos of the last steps in the process.

4 ounce mason jar (available from Amazon, with metal lids, in packs of 12), 1 mason jar lid sacrificed to be the decanting lid (1/4" ID rubber grommet installed in hole that was drilled), completed party straw/nozzle assembly.

Screw the decanting lid, loosely, onto the jar to let propellant vent as you spray.  Shake primer can to be decanted to thoroughly mix the contents before decanting.  Put the party straw/nozzle assembly back on the can of primer the nozzle was removed from.  Bend the straw and insert it into the grommet.  Spray entire contents of can into jar through straw.  Bob's your uncle.

After all the paint is emptied from the can, put one of the new lids on and leave it loosely screwed onto the jar for about 2 hours to let much of the propellant come out of solution.  After 2 hours, stir the decanted primer with a stick or something that is not motorized.  There will still be a lot of propellant in solution, so you'll see it begin to boil when the mixing stick touches it.  Stir it slowly, stopping when the primer gets close to boiling over.  Repeat that process until it no longer boils when stirring by hand.  Now its safe to screw the lid down tight and store your primer.  DO NOT, under any circumstances, use a motorized mixer at this stage.  It will boil beyond your control and you'll have it all over your benchtop.  Each time you get a little primer out of it to airbrush, it will need to be stirred by hand.  Again, don't use a motorized stirrer, because there is a thick sludge that settles to the bottom (this is normal) which will pull off in a big chunk onto your motorized stirrer and then fling thick, grey liquid all over the place.  To airbrush it, I thin it roughly 50/50 with MEK for an even better bite on the plastic.

Very very nice, EC. I like your system. It is well thought out. It is a bit of a process but once you get the hardware lined up, it becomes fairly easy after that. Then it becomes just several minutes of work for a supply that might last me several months. And if I don't have the spray issues that started this thread, I'd be a happy camper. I will keep a full can to do the Tojo method too.

Looks like a trip to the hardware store is in order. 

Thanks for taking the time to post all this. I really appreciate it. Once when I do this and get it tested, I will report back how the paint behaves for me. "Oh behave."

It's all a journey. 

I once used mek when i Built rc sailplanes i used it with epoxy to thin it and apply it to the carbon fiber i used for strength. i noticed it went off-market and now there is a substitute mek how is that version compared to the original?

I don't think you can even get the MEK substitute anymore in hardware stores.  They ended up finding out that the toxicity of MEK was a little bit over-hyped because of the rumor mill and also found out that the substitute was actually just as toxic, if not more so.  I get mine from an aviation supply warehouse near where I work since I work on 1:1 aircraft every day.  As Oldermodelguy was saying in the other thread, he uses laquer thinner, which should work just as well for you and you can still get that at the hardware store.  Just about every on-line hobby store sells Mr. Leveling Thinner which is a really fantastic lacquer thinner as well.  Lots of choices for thinning and cleanup of the Tamiya and Mr. Hobby/Gunze primers like Mr. Surfacer.  Just don't try using mineral spirits or isopropyl alcohol to thin those types of primer.  It won't be a catastrophic, dangerous chemical reaction or anything...it pretty much just instantly turns lacquer primers into a cottage cheese-like gel.

In either case of course (MEK or lacquer thinner), make sure you have adequate ventilation and protect your hands by wearing latex (not vinyl...vinyl will melt) gloves.  The gloves aren't really as much of a safeguard against poisoning as they are to just keep things like MEK from doing one of the things its really good at...which is to find cuts and scratches on your hands that you didn't even know you had.  You'll definitely know they're there if MEK touches them...OUCH.  Not to mention the fact that it instantly zaps all of the natural oils out of your skin and turns them a nice, flaky white.

I wouldn't even bother decanting it.  Tamiya Fine Surface Primer works very well right out of the spray can.

If you insist on airbrushing your primer, get one of the Mr Surfacer 1500 products and thin it with Mr Leveling Thinner.

Mek substitute is available at home depot. I was looking for the original a noticed the mek substitution 

John3M

Mek substitute is available at home depot. I was looking for the original a noticed the mek substitution 

 

You don't want the substitute, nor the sub lacquer thinner either, and you don't absolutely even need MEK. I wouldn't trip over my untied shoes because I got out of the house so fast to go running around trying to find the stuff, I forgot to tie them. Other things do work and I think you will find that most here use something else.

Actually i did not say i wanted it i was responding to an earlier post that said they didnt think it was available as the substitute. I have no need for it