Calling All Gurus - re-prime or not?

Mrchntmarine

 

 

oldermodelguy

 

 

Mrchntmarine

Ok, take 2. After stripping , clean up and COMET...  haha. So far so good. Passed the tape test too.

 

Tks all !!

 

 

 

 

Awesome and looking good too ! Which primer did you end up using ?

 

 

 

 

So i had picked up some of that Tamiya Fine Primer (dont recall the exact name)...  But decided not to experiment with it yet as ive never used it before.  Stuck with grey Stynlrez.  Tamiya hulll red XF-9 and X-18 Tamiya Black on hull.

 

Petrified about spraying the top rail!

 

I'd probably brush paint the rails if you mean railing.

oldermodelguy

 

 

Mrchntmarine

Ok, take 2. After stripping , clean up and COMET...  haha. So far so good. Passed the tape test too.

 

Tks all !!

 

 

 

 

Awesome and looking good too ! Which primer did you end up using ?

 

So i had picked up some of that Tamiya Fine Primer (dont recall the exact name)...  But decided not to experiment with it yet as ive never used it before.  Stuck with grey Stynlrez.  Tamiya hulll red XF-9 and X-18 Tamiya Black on hull.

Petrified about spraying the top rail!

Glad its working out for you!  This hobby is so much more fun when things start going as planned.

Mrchntmarine

Ok, take 2. After stripping , clean up and COMET...  haha. So far so good. Passed the tape test too.

 

 

Tks all !!

 

Awesome and looking good too ! Which primer did you end up using ?

Ok, take 2. After stripping , clean up and COMET...  haha. So far so good. Passed the tape test too.

Tks all !!

Greg

That Comet idea sounds great. Hope I remember to try it when appropriate.

 

Eaglecash867

I think I go through a gallon of MEK about once a year, possibly more often, since I also use it to clean my airbrush parts in an old pickle relish jar that I then put into an ultrasonic cleaner tub filled with water.

I never considered putting a solvent in a jar and putting that jar in the utrasonic cleaner. What a great tip.

I used to see mek in quart cans and gallons in the local hardware store. Not these days but I noticed one about 25 miles from here which is over by my cardio docs place that still carries it in quarts.

Well, I just use lacquer thinner, always have.

gomeral

I don't even know where I'd find MEK these days.  Pretty certain the BORG stopped carrying it years ago, I always see 'substitutes'.  If I ever do find it, I'll be it'll be in gallon cans that'll last me for 800 years or at least until the garage catches on fire...

If you have an aviation supply company near where you live, they'll have MEK.  Its a staple in aviation maintenance.  It is sold in gallon cans.  I think I go through a gallon of MEK about once a year, possibly more often, since I also use it to clean my airbrush parts in an old pickle relish jar that I then put into an ultrasonic cleaner tub filled with water.  If you ever use it, make sure to use latex gloves to protect your skin.  We also know it as "cut finder", because if you have even the tiniest scratch anywhere on your hands, MEK lets you know exactly where it is.  Whatever appendage the scratch is on will suddenly feel like you just cut it off.  LOL.  Don't use vinyl gloves...only latex...vinyl will melt instantly on contact.  Latex isn't affected by it at all.

gomeral

I have always assumed that the Tamiya masking tape and the Tamiya masking sticker was the same material, or at least the same adhesive.  Learn something new every day, thanks.

No problem.  They're definitely not the same material.  The Tamiya paper masking tape is a PITA to use compared to strips or other shapes that you cut yourself from the masking sheet.  Its much stronger so you can't accidentally tear it, while also being MUCH thinner, and its re-positionable...over and over again...so you can get it exactly where you want it.  Never going back to tape again, this stuff is that good.

Eaglecash867

Once that completely dries, I use decanted Tamiya Grey Surface Primer which I thin with MEK (MEK mixes extremely well with the primer and serves as a really aggressive plastic etchant, but as long as you're airbrushing it and not laying it on in a thick, wet layer, it won't hurt even the finest details).

I don't even know where I'd find MEK these days.  Pretty certain the BORG stopped carrying it years ago, I always see 'substitutes'.  If I ever do find it, I'll be it'll be in gallon cans that'll last me for 800 years or at least until the garage catches on fire...

Eaglecash867

I use Tamiya masking sticker sheets, which require no "de-tacking" and they're so thin and strong that they lay down extremly well, even when going over 90 degree bends.  You have to cut them to the size and shape you want, but its not as hard as it sounds.  Using the above techniques and the Tamiya masking sticker sheets (which are essentially the same material as Tamiya and Eduard canopy masks), I have had no issues at all with lifting, and no slightly different sheen to the paint they were touching.

I have always assumed that the Tamiya masking tape and the Tamiya masking sticker was the same material, or at least the same adhesive.  Learn something new every day, thanks.

d

oldermodelguy

Thanks Geg !

You're welcome!

oldermodelguy

....Anyway, I like that your mixer is variable speed, not all are. And I think what you paid is pretty close to the going rate for that brand and model.

That's true. Also, it does seem to be built very well.

Oh This needs answering;

        yes, you've gotten some good answers. I do still after 60 years still use household cleanser for scuffing decks. Why? well, any of them will scuff microscopically and this will let the paint to grip. PLUS! it does NOT have to have to have bleach in it, but it does remove ALL the mold release on the deck, around the details and things of that nature!

Greg

 

 

oldermodelguy

Which one did you get if you don't mind my asking ?

 

 

Not at all, except I'm a little embarrassed that it is so expensive. Because of the nature of the beast, with shakey-things being prone to self-destruction, I tried to find one that would last.

https://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Laboratory-0-3000rpm-Continuous-containers/dp/B01MXTL3FU/ref=sr_1_16?crid=2ARBPDPY7Z9YS&keywords=vortex+paint+mixer&qid=1667401734&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0LjU0IiwicXNhIjoiNC4yOCIsInFzcCI6IjMuODkifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=vortex+paint+mixer%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-16

In hindsight, I think I overspent.

It has performed well over the summer, and has added some consistency to the process with too many variables we call airbrushing. What a difference it made with Vallejo Model Air, in particular. (now that I don't use it much anymore, of course)

Last week I had to break out the Badger electric stirrer on a jar of Mr Surfacer 500 that had sat unopened for years. Best to have both, I guess.

 

 

Thanks Geg ! Somehow I missed this post and the sad part is it's not as though I wasn't looking lol !

Anyway, I like that your mixer is variable speed, not all are. And I think what you paid is pretty close to the going rate for that brand and model.

Eaglecash867

I have no experience with Stynylrez, so I don't know what method it uses to adhere to the plastic

It is polyurethane, if that tells you anything. FWIW, I've yet to find a plastic that it won't adhere to, and the only thing I've tried to prime with it and been unsatisfied are PE parts, and they tend to be highly polished.

On a side note, because this thread made me think of it this morning and I cannot resist, who remembers the lyrics of the kid's song about Comet from way back? No fair Googling!!!

I will provide hints if needed.

Mrchntmarine

So is the problem here that the plastic is too shiny and therefore less likely to hold primer / paint??  

 

You need a little "tooth" to the surface for paint to grip, it also needs to be free of oils and such.The micro scratches of an abrasive is enough for the tooth and most of us wash the parts in something to decontaminate the surface of residual " stuff" and skin oils..

Mrchntmarine

So is the problem here that the plastic is too shiny and therefore less likely to hold primer / paint??  

Mrchntmarine

so I have a few of those brushes - I save them when batteries start to go out- but are still usable for scrubbing. Also, bleach or no bleach in the comet?  I could only find with.....  curious. 

I just use the regular Comet.  It smells like Chlorine, so I think there's bleach in it, but it doesn't really matter.  Its the fine abrasive quality that does the job on the plastic, and if it has bleach in it or not, styrene doesn't care.

So is the problem here that the plastic is too shiny and therefore less likely to hold primer / paint??  

Eaglecash867

Don't forget the cheap electric toothbrush for the Comet scrubbing (I think mine cost me about 5 bucks and I've had it for years).  Takes most of the work out of it, and has the benefit of being nice and gentle around those fine, molded-in surface details that might otherwise break off with a regular toothbrush.

 

so I have a few of those brushes - I save them when batteries start to go out- but are still usable for scrubbing. Also, bleach or no bleach in the comet?  I could only find with.....  curious. 

Mrchntmarine

look for a paint mixer too. haha.

Edit: you guys are quick ! I removed my text as you already replied. And sound like a done deal.

Don't forget the cheap electric toothbrush for the Comet scrubbing (I think mine cost me about 5 bucks and I've had it for years).  Takes most of the work out of it, and has the benefit of being nice and gentle around those fine, molded-in surface details that might otherwise break off with a regular toothbrush.

That Comet idea sounds great. Hope I remember to try it when appropriate.

Eaglecash867

 

 

Mrchntmarine

Now another quesiton - the deck is shiny plastic too.  How should i go about scuffing that with all the small details and deck additions molded in place?

 

 

Oh well...I tried.  

 

Tks for the emphasis - I missed your previous post. 600 or COMET, here I come...

PS - badger mixer ordered. 

oldermodelguy

Which one did you get if you don't mind my asking ?

Not at all, except I'm a little embarrassed that it is so expensive. Because of the nature of the beast, with shakey-things being prone to self-destruction, I tried to find one that would last.

https://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Laboratory-0-3000rpm-Continuous-containers/dp/B01MXTL3FU/ref=sr_1_16?crid=2ARBPDPY7Z9YS&keywords=vortex+paint+mixer&qid=1667401734&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0LjU0IiwicXNhIjoiNC4yOCIsInFzcCI6IjMuODkifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=vortex+paint+mixer%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-16

In hindsight, I think I overspent.

It has performed well over the summer, and has added some consistency to the process with too many variables we call airbrushing. What a difference it made with Vallejo Model Air, in particular. (now that I don't use it much anymore, of course)

Last week I had to break out the Badger electric stirrer on a jar of Mr Surfacer 500 that had sat unopened for years. Best to have both, I guess.

Mrchntmarine

Now another quesiton - the deck is shiny plastic too.  How should i go about scuffing that with all the small details and deck additions molded in place?

Oh well...I tried.  

Greg

 Mrchntmarine

So, i was going to do the "tape test" on the bottom. While handeling and rubbing some of the white spots where the primer pulled off, i caused another 1 or 2 belmishes......

 

 

I was afraid of that. That can be the problem with re-doing a paint pulled up by mask problem....the bond to plastic is only as good as the original coat (in this case, your Stynylrez)

Also, you mentioned shaking the 'clumps' out of your Stynylrez. This is not a good sign. 2 questions;

1. How old is your Stynylrez?

2. Could it possibly ever have been frozen, including shipping to you?

I've just this summer started tossing my Stynylrez after 2 yrs, and try to buy it only in the summer months to avoid freezing in transit. Not sure what the shelf life is, and I'm just guessing at the two years.

Somebody already gave you the magic bullet advice for Stynylrez above, shake the heck out of it. I broke down and got a mechanical shaker this spring, my Stynylrez sessions have been consistent since.

Good luck with your progress, and sorry about the new paint pull-up. Been there, it's disappointing and frustrating.

 

Lumps, clumps may have too strong on my part.  The primer is about 2.5 years old.  I have a small bottle and a larger one and both separate over time.  I do shake all my paints and primers from time to time when not in regular use and even then, because i dont use all of them all the time, even when in use.  I checked this primer before spraying - shook multiple times and stirred too over the course of 3 days before use.  I guess what i should have said to be more precise is that day 1 after shake and stir, what lifted from the bottom was a small amount of "congealed primer" the consistency of stiffened yogurt one would find inside the container of a partially consumed, opened for awhile, yogurt quart.  That being said, all gone before final mix and shoot.

Im thinking ( question i guess ) the issue may have been in addition to not curing before taping, that the plastic is glossy.  I never knew this could be an issue.  Anyhow, im going to scuff the sides and bottom and because i havent bought any related modelling things lately - look for a paint mixer too.  haha. 

Now another quesiton - the deck is shiny plastic too.  How should i go about scuffing that with all the small details and deck additions molded in place?

Tanker-Builder

Hi!

 That is a REVELL ship, is it  not? Strip, Sand and start over. I have found thet the styrene used by Revell is semiglossy harder finished plastic!. Scuf completey with 600 grit Wet Sandpaper after stripping. Try not to not miss a spot!

 

yep, it is - Revell.  Hawaiian Pilot.  Well, maybe this is my problem - it is a glossy finish plastic.  I never knew that was problematic.  Will now scuff....

Greg

 

 My lazy-person centrifugal mixer just saves me the step of cleaning the mixing stem on the Badger.

 

Well there is something to be said for that, Greg ! Which one did you get if you don't mind my asking ? They have the vortex ones at Amazon I noticed, all over the place on price.

oldermodelguy

I don't own a mechanical shaker but I use the Badger mixer on my Stynylrez......

I second that. The Badger mixer works great on Stynylrez too. Maybe even better if sludge has settled to the bottom. My lazy-person centrifugal mixer just saves me the step of cleaning the mixing stem on the Badger.