Iwata/Badger Wars...

wow ChuckB, breathe babe!! it'll be allright. try not to curse too much on here or i think you may get into trouble with the moderator. just for the record, i own 2 badger airbrushes and 2 iwatas and just plain prefer iwata. never needed customer service as of yet, but i've only had the brushes for a couple of months now. later.

if ya all hate your badger brushes sell em to me!!!!!!I personally own Badger/Thayer/Iwata and Paasche airbrushes and yes an Iwata air valve oring will see a certain death if submerged in laquer thinner.....i know this for fact as I have an HP-SB that is sitting here for that very reason.And yes Iwata has shitty customer service not only is the HP-SB jacked up in the oring it is also peeling chrome for no apparent reason and Iwata refuses to do anything about it.Ken at Badger would have died for me and every other badger airbrush owner if that would have been one of his brushes that happened to.He will take care of you unlike anyone else will,he is genuinely caring about you when his product fails.HE WILL MAKE IT RIGHT!!!! one last thing....why knock a product when you have never owned one?????I like all of my brushes and can get all of them to perform except for my fat lil VL which my hands are too small for so I use it for Aqua Flow top binder.Oh yeah..if you wanna spend a million dollars on a micron for modeling paints go for it......it will be like blowing bubble gum through a straw!!

Bearair sells the Aerograph Premier at their e-store at airbrush.com or call them up. I think it is $149.
John

After checking a couple of those out, they look pretty good to me. Is there anywhere here in the states to pick one up? They looked good and appeared to be good quality. I like the rounded bowl design also.

I don't really have the money for a CM right now, as I'm buying a house and I've discovered that there is considerable expense involved I do want an illustration brush though, I have a pic all ready to go, all it needs is a brush that will work for it, and some paint. If I can find a place to order one from and the price is reasonable I'll be able to get one sooner rather than later. Thanks for the tip on that, as I've not really heard of that brand before. I'm glad you liked my artwork as well, and I appreciate the compliment.

Madda, very nice work on your web site!! For illustration the Micron is a excellent airbrush, very expensive and parts are too but if you can afford it, go for it. I didn't notice that much a difference between the micron b that I had and a regular hp-b. You might wan to take a look at a Aerograph super 93 or Aerograph premier airbrush. They are very nice and superb at spraying art/illustration paints. They will spray just as good as the micron as far as atomization of paint and line and spray quality. Again from my experience. Good luck on whatever airbrush you buy.
John

I don't want to mess with the turbo actually, I kind of think the offset head would mess with me for a while. I plan to spray with inks and watercolors mostly, but I don' t plan on modeling with whatever brush I get. I've already got a very nice modeling airbrush. I want an illustration brush now.

I agree with John.

What many people do not realize is that the reason they make smaller tips and needles is to accomodate thinner mediums with finer pigments, not to spray finer lines with any paints out there.
To get a Micron to spray the way it was designed you need to spray inks, water colors, dyes, and other medium with extremely fine pigments.
With paints like Model Master enamels and most acrylics, you will get just as fine of a spray pattern and better flow through an airbrush with a larger tip and needle than the Micron, so why pay $300 for something that will not perform the way it was designed to perform? If you want the finest lines possible then the Paasche AB Turbo is the one to get, but you are back to the same problems as John explained with the Micron.

Mike

I used to own one and may get one again. It is a nice airbrush but like I posted at the end of my earlier post it is going to be a hassle to spray model paint through because of the pigment size. Even spraying watercolors or Holbien Aeroflash paint the tip still experiences tip dry. These are artist grade paints and the pigments are of a better quality . You can use a micron but you are going to really have to thin the model paint, it will be like spraying transparent paint and take many layers to cover.
John

Haven't used one. The price is too rich for me but i'm sure its one piece of precision airbrush.
Now, who will seconded me to ArmorMaster's retopic?

I've heard the Sotar 2020 is pretty good too

QUOTE: The main debate was whether it is alright to soak an entire airbrush in lacquer and the answer is no it should not, end of story....period!

Actually, the guys guy that decided to change it was me, because 2/3 pages sounds like a written fistfight in a battle that can't be won between two great companies. And, to keep everyone on track this did actually start out as an Iwata Micron question, not soaking ABes in thinner! It got a little, um whats the word, ah yes !!! And I allready declared that any AB soaking in thinner overnight was bad, from any company's AB, so let's try this thread again, take two. DOES ANYBODY OWN THE IWATA MICRON? IF SO, HOW IS IT?

QUOTE: Since the arrival of my Iwata HP-CS my Omni 4000 has continued to be used and the Iwata is gathering dust.

i hear you bubba!!

I think they are both good, they have their strengths in different areas, comparing them is like comparing iwata to aztek or harder &steenbeck evolution limited to the iwata revolution bcr. they are different. oranges vs apples: same old

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog mine collects dust too plum since the arrival of the iwatas. later.

Since the arrival of my Iwata HP-CS my Omni 4000 has continued to be used and the Iwata is gathering dust.

Mike

Why are you guys calling this an Iwata vs Badger thread?
The main debate was whether it is alright to soak an entire airbrush in lacquer and the answer is no it should not, end of story....period!
If people think it is alright to do so then I wish you all the luck in the world and stock up on O rings as you will need them eventually.

Mike

i like to think of it as friendly differences of opinion. i dont think anyone on here is upset with the other. even close friends have differences of opinion guys. i'm sure both rooster and mike will say the same. ive used both badger and iwata airbrushes and can achieve the same line with both. i just prefer iwata and will recommend iwata every time over badger. thats just salty's opinion. if your airbrushing budget is not much, i would purchase an omni 4000 or 5000 and let it rip. if you have a little extra to spend, iwata hp-cs is worth it in my opinion. later.

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmarks1965 I just read all three pages. It was like reading about a fist fight or a hocky game.

or a "Disaster Area" concert!!

I just read all three pages. It was like reading about a fist fight or a hocky game.

mine collects dust too plum since the arrival of the iwatas. later.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ArmorMaster Not untill MikeV gets in here

especially after the dusty Omni!

Not untill MikeV gets in here

I'm bored at work so I'm going to step up and beat the horse again.

If I could only buy one, Iwata. But I'm very happy to have my sotar and 100LG along side my HP-CS

So I use both. I never could get my pasche H or VL to work for me and I just recently tried my aztek again and while it worked well for me in the past, I can't see myself ever using it again. The Omni now collects dust until I put it on ebay.

Is the horse still dead?

QUOTE: Originally posted by sigman Think the best thing will happen (I hope), is that badger and iwata will merge companies.

That would be like Ford and Chevy or chocolate and vanilla merging. Some things are just not meant to be.

Here we go again. The ol' badger and iwata controversy. Well said armor master. Even if someone uses a garden hose as his airbrush, he will still considered it as the best airbush. Think the best thing will happen (I hope), is that badger and iwata will merge companies.

Look, bagder is a good company with good AB's and Iwata is a good company with good AB's too. I think it's common sense to not soak an AB-ANY COMPANY'S AB-in laquor thinner or any thinner. Now calling up this guy dave at mooning airbrushes or whatever is kinda overkill-like using an 88mm anti-aircraft gun for hunting deer. Both company's are both very respectible and great. It's a war againts a die-hard bagder fan and some loyal Iwata fans and nobody's gonning to win-their both great.

Yep, I'm calling it the Iwata/Bagder wars...

QUOTE: I've heard a bad thing or two about the sturdiness of the body or something similar. I don't remember exactly what now as it was a while back.

I think that was Plum1030 who commented on that.


It might have been me. I found the handle very fragile. I do like my sotar, I just like the Iwata better. Though lately I've been using my Badger 100LG about half the time.

roosterfish,

I am not saying your Iwata has not survived lacquer as you have told us that it indeed has. I am telling you what experts recommend and Dave Monnig that I told you about is not only a dealer he has been an airbrush user his entire life and he is good friends with some of the top airbrush users in the world including Noah, Craig Fraser, Terry Hill, and many others.
He even has a video out on airbrush maintenance and many consider him one of the top airbrush authorities in the world.
It is possible that an airbrush can survive lacquer thinner after being submerged, but it is not common and it is not recommended and that was the point we were trying to get across.
Here is a quote from a link on Iwatas web site in the "Common Questions" section:

Q: Is an airbrush hard to keep clean?

A: To maintain the airbrush, simply flush it with the appropriate paint cleaning agent--Medea Airbrush Cleaner for water-based paints and paint thinner for oil-based paints. Never immerse or soak an entire airbrush. Follow up with an application of Medea Super Lube for continued smooth operation. (emphasis mine)

Now why would Iwata link you to a web site that gives false information on their product if an Iwata can indeed be submerged?

The story about the Sotar I am not denying at all because it is obvious that the guy who soaked it in lacquer made a grave mistake as that is not a wise thing to do for any brand of airbrush.

Mike

QUOTE: None of my Iwata airbrushes O-rings have dissolved? Has anyone else’s Iwata airbrush got dissolved O-rings?

Well, I don't have an Iwata but I do have two Badgers. One of them is about 12 years old. Both have sprayed everything from laquer to acrylic, and I have never had an o-ring problem.