A Challenging Project ...

i can remember an episode of my grandfather in disagreement with a re-survey of some land that was adjacent to ours. the guy that was re-surveying the land owned close to 30,000 acres in 2 counties where we lived. gained it by giving people credit during the depression and would take their property as payment when they defaulted. anyway, i remember my grandfather and i walking several hours that day looking at the old stakes and the new ones the surveyer staked out, naturally it took up about 6 inches of my grandfather's property and needless to say he got very indignant with the surveyer.

anyway, good luck with the F-4 and let me know when you get started on it so i can sneek a peek. later.

QUOTE: scott, i'm at the house for a second and read your post. i would like to make more comments on you post but i'm tight on time, but here's the link, dont know how much it will help, but here: http://www.vogue-web.ch/f4/

Good site ... better than most of them I've run across.

QUOTE: ok, i'm back, had to go baby sit some electricians. i've seen the wild weasel episode too scott. mighty brave men they were, and excellent footage to boot.

That they were! I've got a friend who flew F-105 weasels. Hard to believe he could squeeze into a cockpit, but he claims he was a lot slimmer back then I dont't see him often these days, but he can tell some tales.

QUOTE: i'm sure surveying familiarized you with bush axes and snakes.

Yeah, that it did! As well as electric fences And dogs, and briar patches, and heat, and cold, and unhappy neighbors, and everything else.

QUOTE: the israeli's keep there birds looking very neat and clean, but the others are worn looking on the outside. i'd love to mimic this on a 1/48 F-4. maybe down the road a bit. later.

That doesn't surprise me a bit. The Israelis have always been put into a position of using what's available, from Lear Jets to Cessnas. I think it makes you appreciate things a bit more and you tend to take a little better care of them. That's one of the reasons I admire them a lot.

scott, i'm at the house for a second and read your post. i would like to make more comments on you post but i'm tight on time, but here's the link, dont know how much it will help, but here: http://www.vogue-web.ch/f4/

ok, i'm back, had to go baby sit some electricians. i've seen the wild weasel episode too scott. mighty brave men they were, and excellent footage to boot.

oh, growing up, we had about 4 miles of electric fence that ran through some of the nastiest bryer patches that the south could come up with!!LOL. i had to walk this fence with a bush axe once a week and remove any brush or debri that may have fallen on the fence and grounded it. after a couple of summers, i was given the joyous task of re-rolling the one strand barbed wire fence as my father never wasted anything!! i'm sure surveying familiarized you with bush axes and snakes.

the israeli's keep there birds looking very neat and clean, but the others are worn looking on the outside. i'd love to mimic this on a 1/48 F-4. maybe down the road a bit. later.

QUOTE: my crew and i voted to tough it out 4 days a week by working 10 hours a day in this blistering heat and have a nice 3 day weekend waiting for you at the end. its been working out nicely too.

You're a tougher man than I am. Been there, done that, decided I preferred air conditioned offices. I ran a survey crew for 12 years and this time of year is rough.

QUOTE: anyway, friday i was holding down my recliner and at the same time watching the discovery wings channel. the show was called "Wings over Vietnam" and you've probably watched the same footage 40 times, but its still cool. the first show was about the "dust off" choppers and crews which was excellent as well. the second segment was about the "bird dogs" or forward air controllers and had some 105's and F-4's in some cool action. got to see some excellent weathered and faded sea camo too.

My favorite TV channel I actually saw that episode Friday on the Dust Off guys, and I've seen the FAC episode before to. Both are good ones. They air an episode of Wings Over Vietnam occasionally (I think I've seen it twice) entitled "The Wild Weasels". If you want to see Thuds and Phantoms playing Wild Weasel, that's the one to watch.

QUOTE: i visited the F-4 web page and found some excellent pics of some other countries that use the F-4. i'm thinking seriously about doing one in Greek markings as well as the israeli markings. i get into weathering, but by the time i get that far, i'm ready to get it off my bench as we've allready discussed.

Which F-4 site? I'm still doing lookups for the one I've got ordered, and am still looking for good sites.

I don't do a lot of weathering on my models, primarily just panel lines. Especially on Vietnam and later birds. In WWII they were flying from forward bases and just about anything big enough to hold them. In Vietnam they were flying from permanent, hard-surfaced bases so there wasn't a lot of mud getting kicked up. I'm also of the opinion, although I don't have anything to back it up, that most of the time the crews had more time to service the planes and keep them maintained. Most of the pictures I've seen of Vietnam-era birds just indicate that they generally appaered "Cleaner" than WWII and Korean aircraft.

QUOTE: it appears that the Greeks don't take care of the exterior of their birds as the ones that i found were very faded and beat up looking.

Could be the type of paint they use to. It takes some pretty good paint to stay stuck at 1,000 knots!

I have noticed that as well, not specificaly with Greek aircraft, but the aircraft of many other countries. They just don't seem to take the care of them that we do and they just tend to look dirty.

scott, i thought about you friday evening. my crew and i voted to tough it out 4 days a week by working 10 hours a day in this blistering heat and have a nice 3 day weekend waiting for you at the end. its been working out nicely too. anyway, friday i was holding down my recliner and at the same time watching the discovery wings channel. the show was called "Wings over Vietnam" and you've probably watched the same footage 40 times, but its still cool. the first show was about the "dust off" choppers and crews which was excellent as well. the second segment was about the "bird dogs" or forward air controllers and had some 105's and F-4's in some cool action. got to see some excellent weathered and faded sea camo too. maybe next time, i'm out of patience on the one i'm doing. i'm doing some weathering but nothing to the extreme. however, i visited the F-4 web page and found some excellent pics of some other countries that use the F-4. i'm thinking seriously about doing one in Greek markings as well as the israeli markings. i get into weathering, but by the time i get that far, i'm ready to get it off my bench as we've allready discussed. it appears that the Greeks don't take care of the exterior of their birds as the ones that i found were very faded and beat up looking. ok, i'll quit rambling on now. later.

electron microscope

saltydog: you can drill a hole underneath the model, like a really small hole, either in front or behind the landing gear bay, and fill it just under the hole with sand and then seal it off with some epoxy. i picked up that tip from fsm

Good lighting and a really big microscope

QUOTE: Originally posted by qmiester Hey Mike Don't laugh to hard - Saw a review in a Brit model magazine the other day - some eastern European company (think it was Pavla) is producing AM kits w/resin parts and Vac canopies for 1/44 - think my eyeballs would probably fall out if I tried them.

I can see it now, for the first time in history modelers are going to start using an arthroscope for modeling.

Mike

QUOTE: ]DON'T GO SCOTT!!! i think that the OT forum will eventually get back to normal though i do believe the political and religious rants will be policed by the moderators. i really would like for you to make this forum a mainstay though, i enjoy your informative posts. i hang out over on the Scalehobby forum some, but its not the same as here. later.

I'm not leaving entirely, but I did sign up on ScaleHobby this morning and plan on spending some time there. I don't think the OT area will ever get back to the way it was, and IMO that is a bad thing. And, yes, I do realize it's being childish and I don't understand why I let it bother me so much, but the fact remains that it does. Everyone has their own opinion, and far be it from me to push mine on anyone else, but I enjoyed that area just like it was. I enjoyed reading the rants and heated discussions, and it won't be the same without them.

QUOTE: Don't laugh to hard - Saw a review in a Brit model magazine the other day - some eastern European company (think it was Pavla) is producing AM kits w/resin parts and Vac canopies for 1/44 - think my eyeballs would probably fall out if I tried them.

You have **GOT** to be kidding! I can barely handle 1/32 scale PE parts, and the canopy on this little 1/44 bird is probably not 1/4" wide. How could anyone possibly handle 1/44 PE parts? They have steadier hands than I do!

Hey Mike

Don't laugh to hard - Saw a review in a Brit model magazine the other day - some eastern European company (think it was Pavla) is producing AM kits w/resin parts and Vac canopies for 1/44 - think my eyeballs would probably fall out if I tried them.

DON'T GO SCOTT!!! i think that the OT forum will eventually get back to normal though i do believe the political and religious rants will be policed by the moderators. i really would like for you to make this forum a mainstay though, i enjoy your informative posts. i hang out over on the Scalehobby forum some, but its not the same as here. later.

QUOTE: Hate to butt in on this little get together , For you Music... BADGER!!! heh. Why do you say you are looking for a new forum to call home??? you not happy here bro??

You aren't butting in at all, but I see your cough is back You really should take something for that! I recommend spraying lots of paint at plastic!

I really enjoy this forum, I think most of the people are great and I've made some good friends, but I'm not at all happy with FSM's handling of the OT forum. You can see my position here:
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23590
At the invitation of a couple of previous forum regulars, I'm going to start spending some time on one of the other forums.

QUOTE: Anyways... there are some nice 1/44's, but Academy/Minicrafts are very basic.

The one I got is a Revell kit, and it would have to fall into the latter category. It is very, very basic. The panel lines are few and far between, the pitot tube is molded on and would be about 3" in diameter in real life. There is just enough detail on it to be able to see a little bit and tell what it is supposed to be.

If this one works out, Trumpeter has some 1/350 scale planes that I may try next

You know, I was looking over the 1/144 tomcat that I did a long while back & then comparing it to the one that I just (about) finished. The much older one was an Academy kit & the recent with all the detail was a LS. The Academy had very little detail & RAISED panel lines, just a few now. The LS had engraved panel lines, many, VERY ALOT as my son used to say when he was a toddler. Anyways... there are some nice 1/44's, but Academy/Minicrafts are very basic.

Hate to butt in on this little get together , For you Music... BADGER!!! heh.

Why do you say you are looking for a new forum to call home??? you not happy here bro??

Actually there are five of them. A 1/32 Spitfire II (finished), a P-40 (finished), a F4U-1D Corsair (not finished because I don't like the way the paint looks), F-105G (90% finished and on the home stretch), F-4E (ordered).

I know what you mean though, it took me forever to get over the urge to push one through just so I could start another. When I was a kid I got a model a week with my allowance, so I could spend as much as a week building one (seldom did though). If I got to Thursday and it wasn't finished I'd throw it together just so when I got my allowance on Friday there wouldn't be anything in the way of the new one I was going to get.

I dunno, I guess we just reach a point where the fun of building them outweighs the rush to finish them. I haven't "gotten" there yet but I am "getting" there. I like the building part and the finished product will just happen when it happens.

QUOTE: but I can usually take my time with a model until I get right down to the end. That's when I just want to get it finished (usually because there is another one waiting to go).

that sounds exactly like me scott!! i have a project on the workbench now that i was pumped to build when i bought it and the Black Box cockpit for it, and now i'm just ready to get it off my bench. i painted and detailed the cockpit and it sat there for months in a zip lock bag and finally i got tired of staring at it and just wanted to get it over with. so, i'm doing the final touch ups in the camo job and now i'm about to future it today, do the wash and start doing the final assembly on it. i'm debating whether to even post it or not, it just didn't turn out because i got in a hurry with it. another thing that bothers me about it, is it needed a nose weight as its too late to add one now, she wont even sit up on her landing gear!! she's popping a weely at all times!! i think i'll just pack the nose landing gear compartment with some play dough and see if that'll solve the problem. nobody will ever look at the bottom much. most of the time, i'm the only one that views my models at length anyway.
but see, thats the patience i'm speaking of scott, the patience to take a nice kit like the 2 1/32 kits that you've undertaken, and have the patience to last from April to August on 1 build and just make it immaculate!! i'll know when i'm ready to do something like that though. i'll probably have to have a couple of more "quick build" kits goin' along with it. later.

QUOTE: sounds interesting scott. hopefully, oneday i won't get in such a hurry with my projects and slow down enough to do some really detailed and meaningful work. all i'm really worried about now as far as detail goes is the cockpit and the paint job. the rest i kinda get in a hurry with. patience will come with time in the hobby hopefully. later.

Patience is normally not one of my virtues (as if I had any!) but I can usually take my time with a model until I get right down to the end. That's when I just want to get it finished (usually because there is another one waiting to go).

I like building detailed models. Cost-wise I guess it's about the same. I could build 4 or 5 quick $25 models in about the same time as 1 $100 model, so there isn't a lot of difference there. But I like airplanes. I like to see how things work on particular planes so I like to have the detail. I don't really care about how long it takes, as long as I have fun doing them. My Thud has been going since early April and I might get it done by early August. The F-4 should get done by Christmas at that rate

sounds interesting scott. hopefully, oneday i won't get in such a hurry with my projects and slow down enough to do some really detailed and meaningful work. all i'm really worried about now as far as detail goes is the cockpit and the paint job. the rest i kinda get in a hurry with. patience will come with time in the hobby hopefully. later.

Don't get your hopes up! You'll probably finish all those you have stacked up plus an F-4 before I finish this one. It's another marathon project:
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/plastic/132aircraftseries/60310.html

Coincidently, this F-4 was in a squadron stationed at Kirat RTAFB at the same time as the F-105G I'm building was. If I ever get them both done I think I'll get a big display case made with a plaque engraved "Brothers In Arms".

scott, i'm lickin' my chops to do an F-4, but i have about 6 kits over there that i need to do before i purchase anymore. i want to do mine in the israeli desert camo scheme. cant wait to see yours in progress. i'll be takin' notes friend. later.

At least I got him to quit saying "Badger" all the time

I "tweezerpulted" a navigation light for my F-105 twice tonight. Fired it once, cussed, found it, said "I'm NOT gonna do that it again!" Fired it again, cussed louder, found it again (yeah, that's twice!) and finally stuffed it in the hole. What are the odds of finding a piece twice??

This little Phantom doesn't have a lot of detail. Like Transblu said, no cockpit at all. I ordered a 1/32 scale Phantom this morning, I may hang this little ne under the wing in place of a missile

tweezerpult!!!

1/144 kits can be alot of fun. I have done quite a few of them. Academy/Minicraft has a wide selection of kits, although they are not that detailed. I found a couple 'bargins' at a kit collectors show. Among them were two F-14 Tomcats by LS. They turned out to be really detailed for their size w/ lots of decals to really dress it up. Cockpits?? What cockpits, so far they don't even exist in the kits that I've seen.

A couple of decades short of 75, but sometimes I feel that old Don' tknow if I can do anything with it or not, but what the hekc it will be fun and no real loss if I screw it up.

that is one small kit scott!! i don't know my friend, with 75 year old eyes, you better be careful!! you may want to be fitted for a straight jacket just in case things dont work out for ya!! good luck grandpa. later.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ewc2003 The kit was garbage, but for $3 I couldn't complain. I ended up hand painting many of the markings with a 10/0 brush and a magnifying glass.... But hey, it was fun. Had to cut and remake the wingtip launchers, as the kit ones resembled MK 82 bombs on the wingtips...used .015" strip styrene.... :)

Kind of the same deal here. I saw it, it was $5, I figured what the heck. It will be fun to see if I can pull off something that resembles. If not, no big deal. I ordered a 1/32 scale Phantom this morning

[quoteJust squint them old eyes