Oil paint washes...help!!!

I know exactly what you're describing cuz I used to have the same problem! First, try thinning your wash a little more--the thicker it is, the quiker it dries and the more tenacious it is. Next, try doing a standard "big wash", but DON"T let it just sit there like sludge, drying. Wait about two minutes, and then with soft toilet paper, tissue or paper towel GENTLY dab the wash off of the major planes and surfaces. This way you have the color in the crevices and hollows, not over all the surfaces.

The other way you can try is to use a fine-tipped brush and meticulously outline every detail, crevice and seam in a color. This gives you more control, and has the advantage of leaving the majority of the base coat unaltered, therefore, "un-weathered". You can also apply BOTH techniques to achieve greater depth of weathering, or simply re-do the fine outlining to get a strong definition of shadows without necessarily affecting the overall base coat at all. You can even use different color layers; rust, dust, etc...for greater chromatic effect.

You should always use drybrushing to counter the dulling effects of washes. 

I would STRONGLY recommend you pick up some of the first few issues of ARMOR MAGAZINE, available thru SQUADRON. There's a couple of guys in there who describe-with tremendous photo support-their amazing use of washes in ways that are truly amazing!

You can also do tan washes on darker tanks o give lovely "dusty" finishes, and experiment with different layers of colors. Let me know how your next attempt turns out !

I know how you feel I hate washes myself, in fact I try to avoid them whenever possible!  I find that using flat black as a primer, then thinning the base coat a little more and applying it in thin coats, you get the same effect with better depth...this is MO!

When I must use a wash I use chinese ink, you can buy it at a stationary store.  I coat the model with future, then let it cure for AT LEAST TWO days (that's really important as future dries quick, but cures slowly). Then I thin the ink with water apply it to the area, craks or crevices, then twist the model to let capalary (sp) action carry the ink to where it's desired.  This helps keep it where I want it, and avoids getting it outside the cracks.  You'll look funny doing it, but it works!  If you do get some outside the lines, use a q-tip to soak it up.  Avoid using tissue or toilet paper because it often leaves residue behind!

Just be careful not to mix too much paint in with whatever you're thinning it with.  You want the wash to flow and surface tension to "suck" the liquid and pigment into the recesses and around details.  Don't be afraid of making your wash too light as you can always do several washes and slowly build it up.

Coating your entire tank with something like Future will help with the flow process as flat paints tend to absorb and hang onto the pigments.  The gloss Future coat will also make it a little easy to gently wipe the little bit of oil on the areas you don't want it to be in.  Then once the wash is fully dried, simply flat coat and seal it all in. 

the doog:

 Thanks for the input.  I'll see about getting those Armor books, pictures and descriptions always help.  I received other advice telling me to seal the model in future so the oils don't get soaked up by he flat paints...you might try that yourself.  I like the tan wash idea too.

 

 

Thanks for the help...I've heard of using future to seal models but I've only used it for decals because of its shiny finish.  I've never used flat spray but I like the idea.  I'm good with pastels so that will also counter the shiny look.  I'm starting a StuG III soon, can't wait to try some new techniques.

espins1:

Your the second person to recommend future...that must be the "cure" so to speak.  I'm starting a StuG III soon, I'll give the technique a try.

 I was at a competition in Reno at a school near the airshow about a a year and a half ago, we may have even met if you were there.  I was looking foward to the next one but it never happened.  I'm in the Sacramento area and competitions have been few and far between.  Any thing coming up that you know of? 

Do you model armor?  I was thrilled that I took a second place award at that competition with my Tiger I, it was the first model I had built since I was a kid 30 years ago.  My 2 young boys were there with me, they now have the modeling "bug" and I'm glad to be back!

SMJmodeler wrote:

espins1: Your the second person to recommend future...that must be the "cure" so to speak.  I'm starting a StuG III soon, I'll give the technique a try.  I was at a competition in Reno at a school near the airshow about a a year and a half ago, we may have even met if you were there.  I was looking foward to the next one but it never happened.  I'm in the Sacramento area and competitions have been few and far between.  Any thing coming up that you know of?  Do you model armor?  I was thrilled that I took a second place award at that competition with my Tiger I, it was the first model I had built since I was a kid 30 years ago.  My 2 young boys were there with me, they now have the modeling "bug" and I'm glad to be back!

Cool!  Yes, that contest was hosted by our model club, IPMS High Rollers.  We put it on at the school in Stead near where the Reno Air Races are held every year.  My wife and I were there in the afternoon.  I got lucky and managed to win a Hasegawa 1/48 FW190A-3 from the raffel. 

 I didn't enter anything as my skills weren't good enough yet.  I had only been back into modeling for a short time and knew I needed to develop my skills more.  I'm finally feeling confident enough now to try to enter something so I plan on entering at least one or two of the categories this year.  Congratulations on 2nd place with your Tiger!  There were some nice entries.  Did you see the awesome dioramas?  Amazing!

I've been building mostly aircraft lately, but built an Italeri 1/35 Panther Ausf. A several months ago that I really enjoyed.  I'm still kinda new at armor modeling, but hope to keep improving my skills.

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I plan on building a few of my new Dragon 1/35 armor kits later this year (Panther A, G, Nashorn, Sherman M4A1, M4A3, M4A3E8, as well as an Italeri PzKpfw. IV F2 to name a few.)  I've been a little obsessed with the Bf109 lately. 

SMJmodeler wrote:

I received other advice telling me to seal the model in future so the oils don't get soaked up by he flat paints...you might try that yourself.

  Hmmmm...I know, I see "Future" pop up constantly in modeling magazines everywhere--it's more popular than The Beatles !(boy, am I dating myself!) Gotta be honest though; I've read some funky things about it too, and thats enough to steer me away from it. The extended curing time of it makes me nervous (and a little impatient!) . I'm probably being paranoid, but I had a BAAAAAD experience several years ago with a model getting completely ruined by my trying to use a household agent (baking soda) in place of a specific hobby-gesigned product, so I'm a bit gunshy and slightly cynical!  I've been quite successful at a number of contests/shows with my methods, so I'll probably stick to them, but I may give a shot to airbrushing a light coat of gloss on before I wash, and see if it grooves me--I'm always up for learning a new technique!--but I'm actually in the other camp (no offense!) from IYAAYAS; I enjoy using washes and integrate the subtle light-filtering properties of a wash into the finish...for example, I REALLY lighten my dunklegelb, and then use a raw umber wash to bring it into spec....check out my Hummel. On this model I used BOTH wash technique and the pre-and-post shading techniques that IYAAYAS mentioned (on the panel lines) . (These photos might load up a bit funky; on my preview screen I'm only getting the left 1/3 of the photo; click on it to blow it up to full screen)

Hey, I gotta admit though, I've seen some spectacular models by guys who practically own stock in Future, so give it a shot and learn from the experience! You may find it to be as practical and easy-to-use as everyone else does! (As might I if I had the guts!)

      I tend to not like to use a lot of sealers, glosses, etc, because over time they will yellow, and in heavy coats they obscure detail. I use a super-light final coat of Testors flat on my finished models.( Hope none of the "Future" crowd takes offense!). B'yeah--get those mags, and you'll see where I get some of my ideas from.                        

Espins:

If we are referring to the same show...which I think we are, I entered a diorama.  It was the one with a Sherman Tank and a Willy's Jeep.  They were positioned near a blown out fruit stand in Italy, the words on the bldg were in Italian "frutta".  There was spilled fruit everywhere, the jeep had a box of oranges on the passenger seat.  Sound familiar?...that was the first diorama I've ever made.  Had a ball makin' it!  The building and setting took as long as the kits.

Don't worry if your skill level isn't there, we're all there to learn and just enjoy sharing ideas.  It's good to get away from the workbench and get inspired by others.  I do know how you feel though.  I entered a competition in Elk Grove, just South of Sacramento, I thought I had a shot at an award.. no chance...it was a humbling experience.  I did learn a lot talking to the guy that did win.  It gives me a goal...I just try to keep in mind it's for fun and relaxation, if I lose that then it becomes stressful, which defeats the purpose of hobbying.

Good luck with the aircarft...they seem very difficult to me, I respect those who have the talent to detail those cockpits.

I'll check out your Panzer.

-SMJmodeler-

the doog:

Nice model!  The barrel work, all the attention to paint chips and the little bit of rust is top notch!

I am going to give future a shot and see what I think.  I am reluctant to try the flat at the end because I like my final touches to be pastels.  I spent a ton of time on a ground base for a Tiger I using a variety of pastels...It looked great!...so what did I do?...try to seal it with a testors flat from the can.  BAD IDEA! the pastels soaked up the flat.  Luckily I was able to re-do what I had so I just left it alone.  That model is under a cover now and still looks just fine.

O.K.  lets talk about those figures at 1:35.  I'm sucking wind in that department, how the heck do you detail a face?  I've seen some amazing work and cannot seem to get anywhere close.  I feel lucky to get a nice flat flesh and a hair color right...forget shadows, beards etc...any ideas/resources?  I do pretty well on the clothing with lightening and darkening the main colors and drybrushing.  Do you use oil washes/ pastels on them?

-SMJmodeler-

SMJmodeler wrote:

O.K.  lets talk about those figures at 1:35.  I'm sucking wind in that department, how the heck do you detail a face?  I've seen some amazing work and cannot seem to get anywhere close.  I feel lucky to get a nice flat flesh and a hair color right...forget shadows, beards etc...any ideas/resources?  I do pretty well on the clothing with lightening and darkening the main colors and drybrushing.  Do you use oil washes/ pastels on them? -SMJmodeler-

   Hey SMJ--it's a couple days since your last post, and in that time I've seen your photo's in your latest "check these out" post--really, your figures are not at all bad to be honest!! At least you put the effort into attempting them; I think they're vital to give a proper sense of scale, but I KNOW how intimidating they can be, and are to a lot of guys! I have to admit myself that every single time--without fail--that I sit down to start a batch of figures, I have a moment of sheer panic and doubt, and worry that I'll never get this or that one to look "real"! I really have to have a stiff shot, and get out some of my better figures for inspiration and confidence.

One thing: the QUALITY of figures is really important--the older Tamiya figures are the hardest, because the features are so soft and ill-defined. Resin faces with sharp details are naturally the best. DML's are pretty workable though, and I must STRONGLY recommend a thingy called an "Optivisor"--a magnifying set of glasses that you wear on your head available thru SQUADRON or MICROMARK. This is so helpful!!!--it effectively "blows up" the face; I really believe that it really helps be able to see the details in a larger scale in order for them to translate in scale.

Then I just dig in. I used to use oils to paint them, and this is really the best way, as the oils enable a degree of subtlety that's hard to achieve with acrylics. But the problem is that the pigments of white oil paint tend to re-absorb into the coats beneath them; I once dismissed this as a myth, until I reexamined my collection and noticed that the figures which were older than say, 6 months(?) seemed too dark, and lacked the vibrant highlights. Other modelers may debate this--fair enough, but to me it seems to be true.

I now use fine artist's acrylics; the kind ya get in a tube. I mix only two colors--white and raw sienna as a base, and might dab in a gnat's poop of ochre yellow for warmth. Recently i've started to use oils--raw umber, raw sienna, etc--for shadows and shading, but the acrylics work too. When everything is dry for a few days, I'll add highlights in acrylic white/ochre yellow. I then do eyes(the hardest part) and lips. I will occasionally use pastel black t simulate a grizzled beard on someone that I want to portray as grizzled, a vet, or particularly aggressive (like an "Ivan") There's been a thread on this latel; a lot of guys will aver that this is generally inaccurate; I come down on the side of artistic expression. I think it conveys to the observer that sense of "saltiness" or fierceness that may enhance the model itself, and modeling to me is an artistic passion, not necessarily a technical pursuit--but to each his own! You gotta be real subtle with the pastel though; I usually apply it, and then wipe most of it off,( it comes off the high points) so that it almost looks like yu drybrushed with face color.

I've tried using washes--depending on the quality of the molding, it can give you "lowlights", and I'd say "try it", you may like it's results; I haven't really embraced it. (I HAVE used washes on some nude figures I did and it worked great as a starting point; with a little bit of tweaking and "erasing", they look great!(almost TOO good! )The bottom line is YOU HAVE TO PRACTICE!! I use the smallest brushes I can find, and even then will modify them by cutting the bristles out until literally only 4-5 remain. The Optivisor is a big help, and I do a lot of research with other high-quality armor modeling mags like FSM (of course!), ARMOR, STEEL MASTERS and MMIR. The works of the masters in those pages can teach you a LOT! Well, good luck on your next figure! Hope this helped ya, and here's two guys you might recognize?