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Coming over to the Darkside!

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  • Member since
    May 2005
Coming over to the Darkside!
Posted by IceDragon122 on Thursday, October 4, 2007 6:46 AM

Finaly after roughly two year fight with lymes disease, i am finaly able to get back to the hobby i love. Fortunatly for me my Doctors caught it right before it got to my CNS (Central Nervous System), but since it was so close to getting into the CNS, it too along time for it to heal out of me completely, mainly my migraines took about a year and half to go away.

 Ok so now that i am getting back into the swing of things here, i have a few questions for the Acrylic pros here.

Before i was a hardcore enamel buff, who would think enamels where the best. I loved the fast drying and easy adhesion but the fumes are the thing and the clean, its now killing me!

I use laccquer thinner to clean up everything and ussually takes about 1.5 hours to prep the paint and clean the airbrush after i finish.

I am now hearing and seeing that acrylics can give you the same results except on the acrylics side, clean up is a breeze, just add water, which is very appealing.

When i move in with my girlfriend (who i hope to be my wife one day) i know she will not like all the laccquer thinner fumes everywhere. So i just have a few questions for you guys.

With acrylics im going to be using Model Master Acryl Brand.

When you clean and wash your airbrush, where do you put the used or washed off paint, down the sinK? (Enamels i let it evaporate in laccquer thinner outside)

How good is Model Master Acryl?  The broad range of paints will make me feel at home just like enamels.

How safe are these guys fumewise? Enamels + laccquer thinner = run as fast as you can while holding your breath.  Are Acrylics worse, like can you smell them more and do they fill the room quicker?

With my spraybooth i dont really smell anything after im done, even though i have a respirator, im just curious on these guys.

Well im definitly going to order some of them and test them out but if i find they are just as good as enamels.....im going to be out like 30 something cans of paint!

Thx in advance!

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Thursday, October 4, 2007 9:27 AM

Acrylics are IMHO easier to airbrush, though MM Acryl has it's challenges. Tamiya is superior in sprayability but suffers a dearth of colors. I've decided it easier to deal with the lack of color than the problems spraying.

I use blue Windex to clean with. It's mostly water, some Isopropyl Alcohol and a little Ammonia, and I store most of my used cleaner in a big gallon jug. I use it for when I have mucked up the paint job and need to strip off the paint (which is far too often!). The rest I let evaporate. Clean up time is typically less than 10-15 minutes. And that includes putting everything away!

Acrylics can still cause respiratory problems, but are far less hazardous in comparison to enamels. Keep your respirator! My wife complained, until I bought a bottle of enamel just to show her the difference.

I suggest getting the November issue of FSM, it has a pull out section on the various acrylic paints available (some of which I've never heard of!). 

So long folks!

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Thursday, October 4, 2007 10:01 AM

Um, this isn't the Dark Side—at least not as far as your liver, lungs, and CNS are concerned.

Nevertheless, to paraphrase what I've often repeated: never treat any chemical as "safe." It sounds like your spraybooth is adequate, and you may not need the respirator. However, considering your recent medical history, using it anyway is definitely a good idea.

Acrylics are generally low odor, and most of the solvents are relatively "mild"—alcohols and or water. However, there are still things in them you don't want in or on your body.

I have two glass jars with tight fitting plastic lids that I use when cleaning. One is 3/4 filled with  Windex. Paint cups, mixing cups, my filter screen and measuring/dispensing tools go into that jar when I finish with them. When I'm done painting, I take the jar and a toothbrush to the sink, clean and rinse the tools (about 5 minutes) and put the lid on the jar. Then I go to the next color.

To clean the airbrush between colors, I dump whatever paint is left into a sludge container (a disposable plastic, metal, or glass container. I recommend glass because it is easiest to clean when it gets really cruddy) in my spraybooth, rinse with tap water, and dump that into the sludge. Then I blow and backflush with Windex, followed by a distilled or deionized water rinse, blow dry, and I'm ready for the next color. Elapsed time another 5 minutes, tops (more like 2).

When done for the day, I dump my wash container into the second jar, and place it where it will not be disturbed. The heavier stuff (mostly pigment) settles to the bottom, and I can pour off the relatively clean stuff into the original wash jar and discard the sludge. This keeps the wash jar clean so that I'm not cleaning things in sludge. If I won't be painting for awhile, I strip and clean the airbrush. That takes about 15 minutes in the sink.

When the Windex gets too dirty, I just dump it down the drain, as it is essentially biodegradable. Same with the sludge unless its heavy, in which case I put it in a waxed paper cup and let it dry hard. When the cup is full of dried sludge, it goes in the trash.

I don't care for MM Acryl, but that is a matter of personal preference. I, too, like Tamiya, and I'm a big fan of Polly Scale. I recommend you try several brands and find one or two you like.

Some other tips: Use an acrylic retarder to prevent the dreaded "tip dry." Some proprietary thinners already include a retarder (Tamiya, for example). Only use a proprietary thinner with its brand of paint, or you may have compatibility problems. Acrylics dry fast but cure slowly, and are susceptible to very high humidity when spraying (they are water compatible, so this makes sense) and very low humidity (ditto).

Simple Green is another good cleaner for acrylics. A mixture of Windex and diluted Simple Green, called "magic"—is. Ethyl alcohol (or denatured) is also a good cleaner for some. Ethyl or denatured are also useful in small amounts as cosolvents in high humidity conditions, but that's an advanced technique. (How I wish FSM would publish my article on paint technology! Are you listening, Matt? Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg])

Do read Aaron Skinner's article in November 2007. I've only skimmed it, but the reviews look very useful. 

Enjoy! And don't hesitate to ask questions. There are no stupid questions, only confusing answers! Laugh [(-D]

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Thursday, October 4, 2007 3:04 PM
 Triarius wrote:

Simple Green is another good cleaner for acrylics. A mixture of Windex and diluted Simple Green, called "magic"—is.

Copycat! Laugh [(-D]

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Thursday, October 4, 2007 5:52 PM
 MikeV wrote:
 Triarius wrote:

Simple Green is another good cleaner for acrylics. A mixture of Windex and diluted Simple Green, called "magic"—is.

Copycat! Laugh [(-D]

Mike, are you the "inventor"? I knew it was someone here, but I'd forgotten who.Dunce [D)]

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Thursday, October 4, 2007 6:45 PM
I am not the "inventor" Ross, but my friend Scooter told me about this cleaner and I posted it on here a long time ago. I am just razzing you my friend, I don't care if I, or my friend get credit or not, it was all in fun. Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Thursday, October 4, 2007 7:19 PM

I realize you're just teasing, Mike, but it's kind of a "thing" with me—if I can credit someone with something, I do. Unfortunately, my memory isn't always up the the task ("The name is Batty; the logic is erratic; my brain is full of static! …Price check on prune juice, Bob?" —Ferngully).

I've been plagarized. I've had my work stolen, and I've had others take credit for work I did. So if I ever quote, or misquote, someone, I hope they'll forgive my bad memory. Confused [%-)]

 

And tell Scooter he's a genius. 

 

Price check on prune juice, Bob. Price check on prune juice… Propeller [8-]

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Thursday, October 4, 2007 9:35 PM
 Triarius wrote:

I realize you're just teasing, Mike, but it's kind of a "thing" with me—if I can credit someone with something, I do. Unfortunately, my memory isn't always up the the task ("The name is Batty; the logic is erratic; my brain is full of static! …Price check on prune juice, Bob?" —Ferngully).

I've been plagarized. I've had my work stolen, and I've had others take credit for work I did. So if I ever quote, or misquote, someone, I hope they'll forgive my bad memory. Confused [%-)]

 

And tell Scooter he's a genius. 

 

Price check on prune juice, Bob. Price check on prune juice… Propeller [8-]

You know I am just messing with you Ross.

You are a stand-up guy and you know I respect you for that.

Be well my friend. Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
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