SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Question on Kill marks on Aircraft. How can this be?

9622 views
22 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    June, 2007
Question on Kill marks on Aircraft. How can this be?
Posted by JohnMcD348 on Friday, June 29, 2007 7:13 PM

I was watching the Military Channel the other day and they were showing a "Top 10" on fighters.  One thing caught my eye that disturbed me and I cannot figure out how this could be.  I also saw this on another program but cannnot recall it at the moment.

 

ANYWAY,

  While discussing the P51, they show a short clip with a Pilot and his flags on the side included: Multple Swastikas(undertably German planes), 1 other type, I'm assuming possibly Italian or some other Axis power craft, a Rising Sun(Japanes).  The last flag in his lineup was an America Flag

Does this mean that, in some time, this American Pilot, flying an American combat fighter, shot down one of his own.  AND TOOK CREDIT FOR THE KILL???  The name on the side of the plane was Capt L.E. Curdes and the name BuckWheat beneath it.  I've Googled and came up short.

What say you all.  CAn someone come up with an explanation on this?

 

Thanks 

JTMcD. We sleep peaceful in our beds because Rough Men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm.......G. Orwell
  • Member since
    November, 2006
  • From: United States
Posted by ww2modeler on Friday, June 29, 2007 8:05 PM

The only thing I can think of is that maybe he crashed or bailed out of an airplane and painted on the flag as a reminder. If he had shot down one of his friendly planes, it would have resulted in an inquiry and if he had taken cradit, probobly an dishonory discharge.

David

On the bench:

1/35 Tamiya M26 Pershing-0%

1/144 Minicraft P-38J Lightning-50%

Numerous 1/35 scale figures in various stages if completion.

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Oak Harbor, WA
Posted by Kolja94 on Friday, June 29, 2007 9:01 PM
Maybe destroyed one that had made a forced landing so it couldn't be captured?? Just a shot in the dark.

Karl

  • Member since
    October, 2005
  • From: Tacoma, WA
Posted by Jaypack55 on Friday, June 29, 2007 11:17 PM
I have seen this before, it is usually done as a sort of joke, when a pilot crashes or otherwise destroys his own aircraft, or when they collided with another a/c on the ground. I read one story where a pilot crashed or destroyed 3a/c, and his superior officers joked about giving him an iron cross!

-Josh

Current Builds: If I were to list everything I have in progress, it'd take way too long! Some notable inclusions:

Hasegawa 1:48 KI-84

Tamiya 1:48 P-51D (in Iwo Jima long-range escort markings)

4 (yes, four) Tamiya 1:48 F4U-1s (1x -1D, 1x -1A, and 2x -1s)

  • Member since
    June, 2007
Posted by JohnMcD348 on Saturday, June 30, 2007 12:16 AM

I kinda figured it had to be some kind of joke.  I just couldn't figure out the punchline. 

 

Thanks Guys. 

JTMcD. We sleep peaceful in our beds because Rough Men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm.......G. Orwell
  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Pax River
Posted by Reddog on Saturday, June 30, 2007 2:10 AM

If memory serves me correct the story behind the American kill marking is this;

When Capt Crudes was stationed in the Pacific he shot down a C-47 to prevent it from landing on an enemy airfield. All the crew of the C-47 was rescued. That is why there is an American flag on the side of his aircraft.  I can't remember were I read that but I do remember the story behind the kill marking. The marking was put there in humor, not to claim a kill.

Reddog

"Any problem can be solved with a suitable application of high explosives."
  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted by T_Terrific on Monday, July 02, 2007 2:56 PM
 Reddog wrote:

If memory serves me correct the story behind the American kill marking is this;

When Capt Crudes was stationed in the Pacific he shot down a C-47 to prevent it from landing on an enemy airfield. All the crew of the C-47 was rescued. That is why there is an American flag on the side of his aircraft.  I can't remember were I read that but I do remember the story behind the kill marking. The marking was put there in humor, not to claim a kill.

Reddog

Did the C-47 pilot see the humor in it? Whistling [:-^]

Tom Cowboy [C):-)]

Tom TCowboy

“Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.”-Henry Ford

"Except in the fundamentals, think and let think"- J. Wesley

"I am impatient with stupidity, my people have learned to live without it"-Klaatu: "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

"All my men believe in God, they are ordered to"-Adolph Hitler

  • Member since
    December, 2007
  • From: Sudbury MA
Posted by Got Hinomaru? on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:50 PM

I have heard that markings like this were sometimes used to denote the destruction of equipment that had been captured by opposing forces. But not in this case it seems.

 

                                                   Andrew

Respect all, fear none.
  • Member since
    February, 2012
Posted by kbrackie on Friday, May 11, 2012 11:14 PM

You are correct Reddog,  he shot down the C-47 to prevent it from landing on a Japanese airfield.  Why they were going to land on an enemy airfield, I don't know.  But, they painted an American flag on the plane as a joke and I guess it stuck.  He tried to claim the title as 'double ace,' but, they wouldn't allow the American kill.  I'm sure he was not the first fighter pilot to down an aircraft on his team, American bombers were bad about shooting at American fighters in the heat of combat, and, yes, they did shoot them down.

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by mikecarno on Friday, April 12, 2013 8:45 AM
  • Member since
    July, 2012
  • From: Douglas AZ
Posted by littletimmy on Saturday, April 13, 2013 11:57 PM

There was an incident onboard The USS Bouge CVE 9    WHERE the pilot of a TBM-3 Went over the crash barrier and struck 2 planes on the aft part of the deck.

For destroying 3 planes he was awarded a MOCK  Iron Cross.

                      Dont worry about the thumbprint... paint it rust and call it "Battle damage" !

  • Member since
    August, 2010
  • From: Beaverton, OR
Posted by Ghostrider114 on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:25 PM

I read one case of a marine pilot at Henderson field who joked that not only was he a triple ace, but he'd be an Japanese ace too, because he had ditched 5 planes in combat.

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Earth
Posted by DiscoStu on Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:03 AM

I had read somewhere that a P-51 had caught sight of a captured B-24 that the Germans were using to infiltrate the bomber formations and shot it down.  That info could be old, faulty, a rumor.  I just remember reading that somewhere......or I may have dreamt it.  Can't be sure

"Ahh the Luftwaffe. The Washington Generals of the History Channel" -Homer Simpson

  

 

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:36 PM

The 8th AF actually started using the color and symbols of the day system to prevent intruders from infiltrating the bomber formations.  If an intruder did not have the proper colored symbol (X, O, square, etc) on the fuselage, it would be fired upon by the bomber crews and the escort fighters.

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    October, 2004
  • From: Orlando, Florida
Posted by ikar01 on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 7:37 PM

It could be that he found an American aircraft being tested or operated by the Germans and managed to shoot it down.

Does anyone know the story of these markings on F-4 #463?  I caught it as it visited our base with a couple other ships. They left shortly after I got the shot and I had to respond to an emergency call so I wasn't able to ask. Look just to the right of the first star.  So far I have not found anybody who can explain it.

i213.photobucket.com/.../scan0132-3.jpg

i213.photobucket.com/.../scan0131-3.jpg

  • Member since
    February, 2007
Posted by mitsdude on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 1:07 AM

DiscoStu

I had read somewhere that a P-51 had caught sight of a captured B-24 that the Germans were using to infiltrate the bomber formations and shot it down.  That info could be old, faulty, a rumor.  I just remember reading that somewhere......or I may have dreamt it.  Can't be sure

I remember a TV show or perhaps a movie that dealt with the Germans using captured American bombers to cause problems. My best speculation is an episode of the old 12 O'clock High series. Not sure if the stories of that series were based on actual events.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Friday, November 29, 2013 1:52 PM

Ikar, that is a Bomarc Drone kill

after they were stood down as missiles, they were converted to Drones, similar to the QF-102 program, the Military needed a higher speed drone than the Firebees could provide

if you zoom in, you will see that is the shape of a Bomarc in flight,,,,,,,,,,it isn't chatted about much, but, "both sides" of the Fighter vs Drone training war kept score, the Fighter with kill marks, and the Drones with Mission Survived markings

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    January, 2014
Posted by BOB DYER on Tuesday, February 04, 2014 5:54 PM

There is a book out now about U.S. aircraft in German service. I've read of a '47 ghosting a flight of 190's with a '51 in the middle of them and not trying to get away. There is also a story of a P-38 in Italy that was attacking B-24's until that was shot down by  P-51's. U.S.S.R. used 190D's because they liked and feared  them so much. But they did put red stars on them. So the stories are out there. Some true, some are up to the reader to decide. You are not dreaming.

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by minimagneto on Saturday, February 08, 2014 10:40 AM

I have no actual insight here...but I will say that I got quite a charge out of the 'friendly fire' kill mark on the Deal's Wheels Spitsfire :) :

  • Member since
    April, 2017
Posted by Mark Steele on Monday, May 22, 2017 11:43 AM

When I was stationed at VAW-120 in Norfolk, VA one of our E-2C Hawkeyes clipped a deer who made the rash decision of trying to cross the active runway during flight ops.

A deer silhouette was dutifully painted on the nose of the aircraft.

 

On the Workbench:

Tamiya 1:350 USS Enterprise (CVN-65)

Kinetic 1:48 C-2A(R) Greyhound

Kitty Hawk 1:32 T-28B

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Monday, May 22, 2017 10:19 PM

I was at Udorn in '73/74, and remember 67-463 with 5 stars, but don't remember her with the drone kill, but didn't see her that often as I worked mostly RF's and E's.  When she left she had a new paint job and no stars.  I left in August.

Still nice pics of the aces bird.

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by seastallion53 on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 4:06 AM

C-47 pilot was confused like a NAVY pilot landing on the wrong carrier.

  • Member since
    November, 2013
Posted by bstarr3 on Tuesday, June 27, 2017 10:47 AM

kbrackie

You are correct Reddog,  he shot down the C-47 to prevent it from landing on a Japanese airfield.  Why they were going to land on an enemy airfield, I don't know.  But, they painted an American flag on the plane as a joke and I guess it stuck.  He tried to claim the title as 'double ace,' but, they wouldn't allow the American kill.  I'm sure he was not the first fighter pilot to down an aircraft on his team, American bombers were bad about shooting at American fighters in the heat of combat, and, yes, they did shoot them down.

 

 

The other part of the story that I've heard is that the C47 was full of medical personnel. The pilot who downed the transport later married one of the nurses onboard. 

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS

SUBSCRIBER-ONLY CONTENT
FREE NEWSLETTER