Oh yer whats this about?

Fair enough, Indy... But I'm only pointing out what criteria I follow... As I stated earlier, I'm not going to change anyone's mind, and vice versa...  If someone disagrees with me, fine, if they agree, fine...  But were I judging those dios, the factors I pointed out would come into play.  Reckon that's why there's more than one judge for any given category...

*INDY, I think you make some powerful argument there, and I agree that its not necessary to include a whole set piece in a a diorama in order to narrow your focal point. In fact, I admire the way that the U-boat dio's creators framed the focal points that they wanted you to focus on.

I think that too many people build dioramas where it's more like a frozen moment in time rather than anthing that has a story to impart. IPMS rules state: "Dioramas are judged not only on the technical merit of their construction but also on the strength of the theme or story they present, so that if two dioramas were technically equal the one having the stronger theme or story would win."

Unfortunately, too many dios that I see lack a story where the viewer can instantly grasp the "action" of what is happening and why, in the diorama.

I like to frame my diorama's like a shot in a movie--what's in the frame? Does it need to be there? How much of it needs to be seen? Like catching the front fender panel of a muscle car in a shot--even if you only see the shaker hood in the frame--with a silhouette of a archetypical "rebel" standing in the background; you'd know that there's some bad-a$$ there, ready for some action.

GREAT points from Indy, Doog and Hans. I myself like the cropped dios. IMO it takes greater skill to chop a kit, place a portion as the focal point of a dio, then build around it than it does to build a dio then sit your model on it. Again thats just my opinion. Hans, how many shows have you judged? I have been asked several time to judge in a few of the local shows that I have attended. I always decline as I feel I am not  yet skilled enough to judge or that I have a model of my own in the category. In the instant of the dios that this thread began about, I could not walk away with out in some way offering an award for these. They are all great and If I had to pick a top three they would be #1 The Me 262 dio. #2 the cropped Uboat. #3 The sinking ship. IMO these are the best, in order, of these dios. I have only built one dio and it is a very poor one. I have two ideas in mind for more dios but just havent committed to doing them. These photos inspire me and provide me with some ideas. Maybe in the near future you guys will be seeing my WWII German tank maintence dio and my Italian campaign defensive position with Panther turret bunkers. Well enough of me now. I think what we would all like to see is a judge from this show explain why they made the decision they did.

Yes, my last post was a  very well produced post, if I do say so myself.  

~And not to invalidate it, or any other valuable information expressed here.... I must report that the Final results we're just posted at the MM site by Robin Buckland, and indicated some info presented here from the start was slightly flawed, as

Gold & Best of show  @ Euro 2009 went to....................A Boxed Diorama

John Schley & Roberto Spaolonzi   won   in Class 10 Boxed Dioramas    for

                        "     Some Had Nightmares Nuremburg 1946'   "

(photos posted by the artist on Planet Figure)

Not what you expected? Same here. It does fit the criterea, and the story aspect knocks you down, and if it's not a nod at Shepard Paine I don't know what is(Sir Hans), but you may say ,like me, I like other works better, but,{ I bet this win spurs some renewed interest in this style of presentaion, eh?}

It was noted as very difficult to photograph, here are some other attempts by Planet Figure Members

As well......There WAS one Gold given in " Vignettes " & two Golds awarded in Class 15 Military Vehicle Diorama

 Sorry BODGE, "The Workshop" by Specer Pollard, DID take Gold

(and SO well deserved, I've been following this mind-boggling build on Missing Lynx) 

Johan Fohan  also took Gold for" Mit Musik Geht Alles Besser" (and if anyone can find pictures of it to post I'd love to see them. )      Same with :

The Vignette that won  GOLD was "Proud Kinsman" by Marco Formeni

                    So things were no where as bad as we thought

There it is  GOLD

Full article coming in  the book Nordic Edge 3

 

 

If that dio took gold then why did it not have gold awarded on it in the comp room and why did they say on the stage on pricegiving no golds to dioramas as they felt none worthy, I WAS THERE AND WITNESED IT MYSELF. I did hear them anounce about half an hour after the awards were given out that they forgot to give one gold out i think to the juniors as they forgot all about it. A really well organized outfit i thought as the person could have left by this time as it was about to close. Still never mind hey.   By the way im not sure but i think they might be my photo,s of last years you have there.

There it is  GOLD Full article coming in  the book Nordic Edge 3

Can't see it, Indy... Says you exceeded bandwidth..

Bodge wrote:

If that dio took gold then why did it not have gold awarded on it in the comp room and why did they say on the stage on pricegiving no golds to dioramas as they felt none worthy, I WAS THERE AND WITNESED IT MYSELF. I did hear them anounce about half an hour after the awards were given out that they forgot to give one gold out i think to the juniors as they forgot all about it. A really well organized outfit i thought as the person could have left by this time as it was about to close. Still never mind hey.   By the way im not sure but i think they might be my photo,s of last years you have there.

Bodge, I don't know. Might as well ask why it took a week after the show for the results to be posted to the world on MM ? They had images posted same day. Could be that you were right about no gold in the catagory simply called 'Diorama", but gold went to Dio's in   "Boxed Diorama" ,   " Military Vehicle Diorama " & "Vignettes" ,   --- close enough for me.         Wasn't as things appeared at the start of this thread, that NO dioramas took gold at Euro.   I have my facts right, they come from the organizers, at Military Modelling.

Best regards.............Indy

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Full article coming in  the book Nordic Edge 3 Can't see it, Indy... Says you exceeded bandwidth..

Yes, Sir, I see that now, it was visable when I posted it. Like I said.." if anyone can locate images of it......" could be the publishers don't want us locating them............

Love the Some Had Nightmares dio. Ive always wanted to try something like this in a dio. Tried something similar in full scale at a haunted house two halloweens ago where I work and Shep's book helped us out on it. Not sure if I were a judge I would have voted for the Workshop dio but is does look very well constructed. Would love to see some photos of the other winners.

Bodge wrote:

If that dio took gold then why did it not have gold awarded on it in the comp room and why did they say on the stage on pricegiving no golds to dioramas as they felt none worthy, I WAS THERE AND WITNESED IT MYSELF. I did hear them anounce about half an hour after the awards were given out that they forgot to give one gold out i think to the juniors as they forgot all about it. A really well organized outfit i thought as the person could have left by this time as it was about to close. Still never mind hey.   By the way im not sure but i think they might be my photo,s of last years you have there.

 

 

To Bodge and everyone else, I think I may be able to clear up the confusion. I was just searching for any photos from Euro Militaire and found a few things very interesting.

In the rules for the show, on Euro Militaire's site, Dioramas are stated to be any subject of three or more FIGURES in some form of action on a scenic base.

Military Modelling's website does have a list of ALL winners and there were NO golds awarded in DIORAMAS.

The Sherman Workshop dio won for a completely different class, MILITARY VEHICLE DIORAMAS.

I hope this helps

the doog wrote:

Shadow boxes.....man, I haven't seen one of them since.......well.........Shep Paine!

LOL...was thinking that myself...they are indeed rare and are more often seen in vignettes and w/ figures...

Well, at the end the judges will pick the best of there opinion, not just the details and the models, but by the story and the setting/presentation. But your opinion matters, after all it is your diorama, it is you who saiys if it is your personal best.

INdy, do you have any idea how that "Some Had Nightmares" creator got the ghostly image in that doorway?

the doog wrote:

INdy, do you have any idea how that "Some Had Nightmares" creator got the ghostly image in that doorway?

~Doog, the only thing I could find about that model so far was a brief post-win thread at http://www.planetfigure.com/ , from 1 of the 2 artists

Quote: Originally Posted by schley Thank you for all your comments. The title of the diorama was in fact "Some Had Nightmares" Nuremberg 1946. As has been surmised it tells the tale of a War Crimes Defendant, in his cell at Nuremberg, who in his nightmares sees victims from a family he is responsible for killing. Roberto & I are still on a high on being selected as Best of Show as this is our own dream come true. Thanks again for your comments My congratulations to you and Roberto on a brilliantly executed concept.I don't think the photographs (so far) convey what it looks like in the flesh.I'm just glad i was one of the fortunate ones to see it up close.I reckon you'll have to go "on tour" with this one so more people can appreciate the atmosphere of the scene you've portrayed Brian ~ Doog ~Others pose the same question as you, but so far no answer.   Shepard Paine diagrams a few possible ways to accomplish what it apears was done here, and shows a few examples of his amazing work, on pages 136-137 of his famed book "How to build Dioramas"(FSM Books) The key is a carefully placed one-way glass, but of course there's far more to it. If you want to try to pursue John for an answer, here's the thread link : http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31474

INDY--thanks for those links!

--you know what just occurred to me? Places like Walmart now offer glass etching from photographs--I wonder if that was etched glass, from a photo of some built and painted figures?

IMO, while "Some Had Nightmares." is an ingenious idea, it is poorly executed in general, except for the apparation...another case of the "wow" factor overshadowing the details, just like BIG dios tend to do...

the doog wrote:

INdy, do you have any idea how that "Some Had Nightmares" creator got the ghostly image in that doorway?

 

Doog

There is a section in the secone edition of Shep's dio book on how to do that. best i can remember without looking it up is get your ghost figures together first, paint them silver(I think), then hide them bhind something but at a 45 degree angle to a piece of glass. when viewed they look transparent. Like I said we did this in full scale for a haunted house several years ago. Worked great

[quote user="Manstein's revenge"]

IMO, while "Some Had Nightmares." is an ingenious idea, it is poorly executed in general, except for the apparation...another case of the "wow" factor overshadowing the details, just like BIG dios tend to do...

~You might be right there. High impact, low on sizzle though. I'd say it's maybe a model the world needed to see, but one few will want to look at again, kind of like the atrocities at it''s core.

Beautiful work, all of it, in its own way.  But I think I see the reason the judges didn't like the LVT dio (in the OP):

 

The bilge water coming out of the pump is too clean.

modelbuilder wrote:

the doog wrote: INdy, do you have any idea how that "Some Had Nightmares" creator got the ghostly image in that doorway?   Doog There is a section in the secone edition of Shep's dio book on how to do that. best i can remember without looking it up is get your ghost figures together first, paint them silver(I think), then hide them bhind something but at a 45 degree angle to a piece of glass. when viewed they look transparent. Like I said we did this in full scale for a haunted house several years ago. Worked great

Thanks for that info, modelbuilder! I must have not caught that book--I know that I have the first edition....

the doog wrote:

modelbuilder wrote:  the doog wrote: INdy, do you have any idea how that "Some Had Nightmares" creator got the ghostly image in that doorway?   Doog There is a section in the secone edition of Shep's dio book on how to do that. best i can remember without looking it up is get your ghost figures together first, paint them silver(I think), then hide them bhind something but at a 45 degree angle to a piece of glass. when viewed they look transparent. Like I said we did this in full scale for a haunted house several years ago. Worked great Thanks for that info, modelbuilder! I must have not caught that book--I know that I have the first edition....

Karl, modelbuiler may be referring to this book on Shep's life and work: .

I got it recently and just last night opened it randomly and was at the part about htis technique. It involved a "half silvered mirror," i.e. angled and lit in such a way that you see the reflection of the ghost. Shep's dio depicted a scene from Hamlet. As he described it, the liughting was adjustable so the ghost could be seen in various ambient light settings.

ajlafleche wrote:

the doog wrote:  modelbuilder wrote:  the doog wrote: INdy, do you have any idea how that "Some Had Nightmares" creator got the ghostly image in that doorway?   Doog There is a section in the secone edition of Shep's dio book on how to do that. best i can remember without looking it up is get your ghost figures together first, paint them silver(I think), then hide them bhind something but at a 45 degree angle to a piece of glass. when viewed they look transparent. Like I said we did this in full scale for a haunted house several years ago. Worked great Thanks for that info, modelbuilder! I must have not caught that book--I know that I have the first edition.... Karl, modelbuiler may be referring to this book on Shep's life and work: . I got it recently and just last night opened it randomly and was at the part about htis technique. It involved a "half silvered mirror," i.e. angled and lit in such a way that you see the reflection of the ghost. Shep's dio depicted a scene from Hamlet. As he described it, the liughting was adjustable so the ghost could be seen in various ambient light settings.

~ Al   ~ M.B. may have meant that book, seemed to me he was talking about the same book I had just quoted the exact pages from

(pages 136 & 137 )

Jeepers ~ I forgot to specify 2nd EDITION !!   As long as we all have some form of Shep Paines book we are safe here, right ? LOL        

~ Doog ~ was that section to be found at all in the 1st Edition  when you went back & looked?

Indy

Brumbles wrote:

Beautiful work, all of it, in its own way.  But I think I see the reason the judges didn't like the LVT dio (in the OP):   The bilge water coming out of the pump is too clean.

 

 A gorgeous model, James Campling's All Theatre Transport will be a feature in the October '09 Military Modelling Magazine........despite no Euro-award......that's plenty of nototiety for this one as well......

Indy

There a ghost scene is paine's book too, shadow box of a scene of macbeth, maybe it will help.