Group Builds - Revisited

QUOTE: Originally posted by David Voss I could create a category for Group Builds and then a forum for Airplanes, Armor, and one for all other genre.

That would be better than the mixed up jumble the general GB catagory was. It sounds like a good solution. I personally liked it when they were free floating in their home topic.

The "free floating" threads within each genre were not bad when there were only one or two GB's in each genre at a time. Then these "few" GB's were stickied and that was still okay because there were only a few. However, once the fad for GB's took on astonomical proportions something had to be done.

I must admit the current GB forum is a jumbled mess and some organization is needed. I would vote for the individual sub forums for each genre and perhaps even a single (or multiple) seperate "Completed GB's" forum where all the obsolete threads go to rest.

i say just stick them back with the original forum,
but no Stickys at all, let them sink or swim
its easer for the search option if its all back

I agree with the above. It sounded like a good idea at first, but then it just became a jumbled mess. Sub forums would be great as would the completed GBs forum.
But if you cant get sub forums then I would prefer letting the gb's go to their subjects and rise and fall with the activity of the GB. But this might not Work with the Aircraft guys, there is probably twice as manyAircraft gbs going on that might still congest the Aircraft forum.
I beleive that we should keep the current GB forum for Gb's like the Young guns gb or Battle of the Bulge, to allow modelers from aircraft, armor, ships, whatever have a common place to go to. Thats just my

I think the sub-forum, or a topic to each genre of GB would work good... Sticking the AC GB's back in the AC folder would make it a mess, it is a very active topic and being how many GB's go on for AC alone would fill the whole first page.

I know it is a convoluted mess, but if there isn't a way to do it so the GB had it's own section (i.e. Armor Group Builds - Topic with all the Armor builds in there, Aircraft GB with all their GB's in there and then after the specialties, an open topic for the "all inclusive" type GB, then I would say leave it as is... I don't mind going several pages into it to find a small group build, but if something like the Latin American Aircraft GB was placed in the Aircraft topic it would end up on page 15 in a day or less.

I wouldn't want to go back the way it was. There are so many GB's going on that other posts would quickly get buried. It's a little chaotic on the GB Forum, but I know which ones I'm involved in & can quickly find the ones I want.

Regards, Rick

So from what I'm hearing, Aircraft and Armor group builds need to be separated from the main Aircraft & Armor forums, due to forum activity and number of group builds.

Then there are the multi-genre / multi-subject group builds which are best served by the group build forum.

I'll give it some more thought.

And seeing how that you only moved my GB to the GB forum from the armor forum, I withdrew from all that I participate in so that there won't be any more trouble. I also withdrew from The Tiger build, so if you would please move it back so it's not lost in that horrible GB forum, that would be great for the guys that are still working hard on their Tigers. Not sure about the PZ I build. You can do what you want on that one. Someone will take up a new thread I am sure.

THere are at least 5 GB on the armor forum, not counting the ones I iniated. Mine were the only ones moved. Tell the guy that built the cover model last month I am sorry.

Ted

QUOTE: Originally posted by David Voss So from what I'm hearing, Aircraft and Armor group builds need to be separated from the main Aircraft & Armor forums, due to forum activity and number of group builds. Then there are the multi-genre / multi-subject group builds which are best served by the group build forum. I'll give it some more thought.

pretty much that would work, if those two had their own forums and then a "general" forum for the rest I think it would be a lot clearer... it might be something to tweak later but I think it would be a start.

i also think the armor GB's should stay on the armor pages. Personally, I have not checked in to the Tiger GB thread as often now as when it was on the armor page. But I agree with Captain, Rebel and Ted.........

Gbs on the GB page-- that is my vote-- I hated the way it was....

Personally, I think the group build threads should stay in their genre forums. For some reason, members do not visit the Group Build forum as often as the forum covering their individual interest. Group build threads only seem to take up page one space in their initial stages, then gradually drop, popping up again occassionally as the build date approaches. By the time they start, those who are interested and have joined in know to look for the specific thread. I have sometimes gone three pages deep to find the build thread I was interested in. I think one sticky at the top of each forum, listing each upcoming or current build, (as long as it is maintained) is sufficient to keep people informed as to what builds are going on. Perhaps, to get a build included on the GB sticky, a request to the administrator by the initiator of the build could be made - including the dates and other parameters(and possibly a minimum number of participants to make it 'official'). Those builds that overlap genres could still be listed on the GB forum, and the initiator or a member could make an informational post on any appropriate forum where an overlap exists. ( As recently happened with the proposed Pearl Harbor GB). Just my thoughts, Pete

I think the current system works well. Why change it..? I know us 'older' members have had a hard time getting used to the new system, but I see plenty of new members in the GB forum and none are complaining.

There's just way too much traffic on the main forums. It quickly becomes hard to find any thread. It's OK for a 'look at my latest model' type of thread that will stay on top for a couple of days, but GBs are long-lasting and many are not necessarily in use 24/7. Take for instance the Aerobatic teams GB. It's an open-ended GB, with a handful of members only. In the GB forum, even if no-one writes anything in a couple of days, the GB stays within the first 2 pages. If it were in the main aicraft forum, a similar 2-day 'break' would relocate the thread anywhere between pae 4 and 10. Hence less chances of getting new people interested in, and all in all, a harder to locate thread.

The current system stays in the phylosophy of the mag (FSM mag). A bit of everything for everyone, for every taste. Consign the GBs into their respective genres and you'll destroy the last way of people like me to have the sudden urge to build something different from an aircraft or an AFV.. The melting pot promotes cross-modeling so to speak. That's what I like about FSM mag, aqnd that's whay the GB forum has become my favourite place and always my first port of call in here.

Even sub-categories within the GB forum would destroy this melting pot effect. So please do not do it!

Updating on a regular basis the sticky GB thread in the main forums would be good though. But that's also up to the GB 'leader' to ask FSM staff to do so. We can not expect FSM staff to devote 100% of their time tidying up..!

QUOTE: Originally posted by David Voss So from what I'm hearing, Aircraft and Armor group builds need to be separated from the main Aircraft & Armor forums, due to forum activity and number of group builds. Then there are the multi-genre / multi-subject group builds which are best served by the group build forum. I'll give it some more thought.

Actually, the first part is good, Armor and Aircraft need their own GB forum. The other GB could go back into their parent forums since they is usually only one GB, perhaps two, going on in the other forums like sci-fi or helicopters.

I agree that the sticky topics in the armor forum were a bit ridiculous. Three quarters of the first page were GB sticky topics, each consisting of over 10-20 pages (some even more). Too much info to sift through if you are a participant, too much clutter to go through if you are not. Especially if you don't read every post every day.

Let me caveat this by acknowledging that group builds are great and there is a whole lot of valuable information in the GB threads. I also acknowledge that it is next to impossible to efficiently access that info in the GB with all the other clutter within the same thread.

Too bad the software doesn't allow for subtopics within the GB thread.

I happen to agree with djmodels1999. There were group build sticky's that management
keep for lists that is very helpful in finding a particular thread quickly.

But, I also see the benefits of a group build header with particular subject sub-headers.

Following my earlier message, I was just wondering if we could not just have a compromise (a very Belgian thing!) and have a bit of both worlds: allow GBs float about in the main genre Forums and allow GBs in the GB forum according to the tastes and preferences of the GB 'leader' ? You can then get rid of the stickies in each Forum...

I propose as the Word of the Day...

consensus
n : agreement in the judgment or opinion reached by a group as a whole.



Subforums are currently not an option due to software limitations. Unless something major comes up, we should be switching to another forum application sometime this year (possibly summer?).

So...

Here's another option, I could create an Aircraft Group Build forum directly under the Aircraft forum and do the same with Armor.

Modeling Subject
- Aircraft
- Aircraft Group Build
- Armor
- Armor Group Build
... all the current forums
- Multi-Subject Group Builds (? about the name)

I agree that for Sci-fi, Helicopters, Automotive that it would probably be best to keep them within their respective forums.

Perhaps with the new forum software, I can go back and tag the group builds and build a page that lists all the group builds.

Using the Armor forum as an example, there are 5 builds going on. The first page of the forum has 19 total threads currently and 2 are GBs and one is a Mad build. Of the 5 builds going on, there are generally only 2 or 3 on the first page at any given time, and they are usually the active ones. I don't think that this constitutes clutter or pushes anything important off of page one. Plus we are all capable of clicking "page 2" or searching for what we want. My vote is keep all the armor together, ariplanes together, etc. Don't make anything sticky and let the slow builds or ones not in progress slip to other pages.

QUOTE: Originally posted by djmodels1999 Following my earlier message, I was just wondering if we could not just have a compromise (a very Belgian thing!) and have a bit of both worlds: allow GBs float about in the main genre Forums and allow GBs in the GB forum according to the tastes and preferences of the GB 'leader' ? You can then get rid of the stickies in each Forum...

Or we could swap in compromise for the word of the day.

com·pro·mise
n.
1.
1. A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.
2. The result of such a settlement.
2. Something that combines qualities or elements of different things.

I like it...but there are an awful lot of Aircraft builds. It's like their fanatics or something.

What might work for the Armor Forum would be a disaster for the Aircraft Forum. I really don't see the need to change the system we have in place, but if you feel change is a must, then go with separate Group Build Forums for the Aircraft & Armor. The Armor guys apparently want to keep their GB's in the Armor Forum, but it would not work for the Aircraft guys with all of the GB's going on & more added about every day.

Regards, Rick

David, that would create two more Forums.. There's already a lot of them, and I do feel it's already hard to visit them all. (and I do spend a lot of time here already!) which is a shame 'cause most of the time there are great things happening in the Car, SF, Space,.. forums, things we can all learn from, even if we are a die-hard AFV modeler...

I think it's very short-minded to divide even more this fantastic group of people. And people need to be more open-minded about things they do not model. If not, why the h.. are they buying FSM mag. This set of forums should be complementary to the mag.

I have no problem moving the group builds back into the respective forums ... however as has been said, it would impact the Aircraft forum the most and possibly the Armor forums. Although the armor guys don't seem to mind.

Then there are builds like the Young Guns which are broad and are best served by the Group Build forum.

I could just leave well enough alone, but...it screams 'change me'. But as I'll honestly point out, I'm not the one using them, I'm just an observer, which is why I'm trying to solicit feedback before I do anything more.

have what you said
a Armour group build forum
a Aircraft group build forum
and then a others forum
that would be best and the review it in a month

QUOTE: Originally posted by David Voss Here's another option, I could create an Aircraft Group Build forum directly under the Aircraft forum and do the same with Armor. Modeling Subject - Aircraft - Aircraft Group Build - Armor - Armor Group Build ... all the current forums - Multi-Subject Group Builds (? about the name) I agree that for Sci-fi, Helicopters, Automotive that it would probably be best to keep them within their respective forums. Perhaps with the new forum software, I can go back and tag the group builds and build a page that lists all the group builds.

This sounds good. The multi-subject forum could be "General Modeling Group Build" or just "Group Build".

While JWest has a point that there are only a couple of GB going on in the armor forum now, but at times there can be many more. It is probably the second most popular forum (ISTR a thread about catching the aircraft forum).

It seems that there is normally a WW2 German armor build, modern or allied armor build and a "battle-themed" build going on at any one time.

QUOTE: Originally posted by David Voss I propose as the Word of the Day... consensus n : agreement in the judgment or opinion reached by a group as a whole. Here's another option, I could create an Aircraft Group Build forum directly under the Aircraft forum and do the same with Armor. Modeling Subject - Aircraft - Aircraft Group Build - Armor - Armor Group Build ... all the current forums - Multi-Subject Group Builds (? about the name) I agree that for Sci-fi, Helicopters, Automotive that it would probably be best to keep them within their respective forums. Perhaps with the new forum software, I can go back and tag the group builds and build a page that lists all the group builds.

that gets my vote

If I may, I'd like to propose a "third way". The AC builds seem to far outnumber any other category in terms of both variety and active builds at any one time. I can definitely see them warranting their own forum/area separate from the regular AC area.

Armor on the other hand has a totally different aspect to it. There have been several GBs that have been or still are active and strong happily chugging along as single threads in the normal Armor forum. My recommendation would be just leave it alone in the Armor forum unles it's specifically requestes and/or restarted in the normal GB area. Some of the GBs have a few participants while others have more, but based on activity level (I would think those involved would at least add the link to their Favorites but maybe that's asking too much?) they seem to do well enough, plus it allows others to view or not view within the same forum. I clearly recognize this solution would work for Armor but not AC, so limit the option to just the Armor forum.

As for broad-based theme builds, leave them where they are, in a GB forum, and leave it at that. This way, you need only create 1 additional forum for the AC GBs (if desired), leave the themed GBs where they are in a general GB forum, and let the Armor GBs carry on in the normal Armor forum unless specifically requested to be moved/relocated.

That's my

I'll gladly take your .

What revision is this? GB Proposal version 4.0?

Modeling Subject
- Aircraft
- Aircraft Group Build
... all the current forums ...
- General Modeling Group Build

Aircraft Group Builds get their own forum, directly under the Aircraft forum. Then leave it up to the group build if they want to work within their respective modeling subject forum (ie., armor, auto, sci-fi, etc.) or within the General Modeling Group Build.

If anything, we can see how this goes for Aircraft and if the Armor members decide this might work for them, then we can always revisit this in the future.

I think this would work -- at least worth the shot. The worst thing that can happen is a mob of people show up outside the building waving pitchforks....nah, not going there.

QUOTE: Originally posted by David Voss Modeling Subject - Aircraft - Aircraft Group Build ... all the current forums ... - General Modeling Group Build --snip--- I think this would work -- at least worth the shot. The worst thing that can happen is a mob of people show up outside the building waving pitchforks....nah, not going there.

You forgot the torches... in the movies they always carried pitchforks AND torches!

I go for that... move the AC GB on it's own, then it's up to the other folk to have the GB within their own forum, or in the GB forum. All non-denominational GB's go into the regular GB forum... sounds like a plan!

I may be a bit thick, maybe thicker tonight than any other night, but why oh why do we need a new forum just for Aircraft GBs..??? More segregation is the likely outcome. What are the chances of the 'average' or 'dedicated' Mr (or Mrs) Aircraft builder (or AFV builder) noticing what could be an interesting, different, eye-opening GB in the 'left-over' GB Forum..? If there's nothing in there to bring him (her) there in the first place, why would he (she) bother at all..?