I give up

A lot of readers don't consider coverage of new products, such as decals, a Frivolity. All model related mags cover new products, some in much more detail than FSM. Your Rant is interesting, because a lot of folks feel that FSM's coverage is too basic & too much devoted to beginners. All a matter of perspective.

Regards, Rick

Believe it or not, most of the writing I do here at FSM is aimed at beginners and folks who are returning to the hobby after some time off.

For example:

Spray-painting basics (December 2003) 6 pgs.
Airbrush roundup I: Single-action models (January 2004) 6 pgs.
Airbrush roundup II: Double-action models (February 2004) 6 pgs.
Masking canopies (April 2004) 4 pgs.
Brush-painting basics (May 2004) 4 pgs.
Working with clear parts (July 2004) 3 pgs.
Glue basics (September 2004) 3 pgs.
Washing armor (October 2004) 4 pgs.
Weather armor with dry-brushing and pastels (November 2004) 3 pgs.
Airbrush troubleshooting (December 2004) 6 pgs.
Modeling "plan of attack" (January 2005) 4 pgs.

And these are just the articles I've written. In fact, I just finished writing a how-to article on resin casting that'll be in our May 2005 issue.

We make a real effort to include articles on basic techniques as often as we can -- don't give up on us yet!

Matthew Usher
Senior Editor, FineScale Modeler

I have to agree. FSM Magazine is chuck-full of articles specifically directed at new or beginner level modelers. If anything, there are very few articles directed at advanced modelers...and understandably so.

Matthew outlined some of the recent "Basic" articles above, so I won't re-hash the specifics. I guess as Rick said, "[It's] all a matter of perspective."

I'm relatively new at the weathering thing and Matthew's article has helped me tremendously in using pastels and oils. My 'new' thing is the tempera suggestion mentioned in this month's FSM. When I was a kid I was frustrated with FSM because I was too impatient to try the more advanced techniques. Now that I am older and wiser (29) the difference is night and day. Give the guys at FSM a chance, the tips and tech's goodies have really been plentiful lately. Thanks, Matthew for the weathering tips!

I'm not necessarily interested in FSM for the tips, I'm more in it for new ideas. Granted I do take a lot of advice and tips from it. However, I just recently bought the FSM published "Spaceships at the final frontier" of which I was very dissapointed with considering I'm 19 and my star trek models came out better and they all look like they're lacking something. So I'd say I'm content with the magazine but find the books could be better.

QUOTE: Originally posted by vyrus724 FSM staff may argue that most of their audience don't want beginner stuff, but I say that FSM has systemically narrowed down its readership by alienating beginners.

That's funny, the overwhelming majority of complaints I hear about FSM is that it's TOO beginner-oriented. Actually, your complaint that beginners are being alienated is the first such complaint I've EVER heard. Are you sure you're reading FSM? You might want to check the cover of the magazines you've been looking at.

Honestly, I find your complaint totally unfounded and completely without merit.
Each and every issue of FSM contains plenty of information for modellers of ALL levels. You can find basic techniques, fundamental theories, and sound advice that's relevant for beginners in every issue.

You're free to have your own opinions and read or not read whatever you choose, but when you post pure baloney like that, someone's going to make a sandwich or two out of it.

Good luck finding a magazine that is more beginner-friendly than FSM!
I can guarantee that you will not...

I guess some people need to be taken by the hand, and shown which is the plastic and what is the glue.

QUOTE: Originally posted by DanCooper I guess some people need to be taken by the hand, and shown which is the plastic and what is the glue.

Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with being a beginner.
Actually, it's unavoidable!

But to complain that FSM ignores beginners is utterly ridiculous.

As a beginner that I am, I must say that this thread is rather interesting.

Brian, well put. When someone enters this hobby, they have to have some basic skills on how to assemble a kit. Instructions that come with the kits show how to put it together, placement of decals and even how to apply decals. The skills and tricks of the trade improve with each model a person builds.

The magazine can not go into great detail on how to assemble a specific model. One must assume the reader has enough experience in building to be able to read between the lines. They can't go step by step, that is what the instructions are for.

The magazine is full of tips for the beginner as well as the advanced builder. The Q & A section of the magazine is informative and at some times comical. "I put decals on my Tiger tank and they wont stick. What am I doing wrong"?

This lets you know that person lacks the basic skill of applying decals. Then the answer will have to go into detail, that will not be needed by a more advanced builder.

On the other hand, a section on installing PE parts will be totally baffeling to a beginner. He will have no idea what PE is.

This is why you have to have a compromise. You don't want the magazine too boring for the advanced builder or too technical for the beginner. And, that is not easy to do. I think FSM is doing a very fine job trying to walk that fine line.

I don't know how I got along in the late sixties, when I began an avid interest in the hobby. I didn't have an editorial page to explain how to assemble a model. I just used the instruction sheet, some glue and.........I must be a genius!

I too find the topic to be overly critical. It is impossible to please everyone, and I agree with my man Brian and all of his observations.

Steve

QUOTE: Originally posted by berny13 Brian, well put. When someone enters this hobby, they have to have some basic skills on how to assemble a kit. Instructions that come with the kits show how to put it together, placement of decals and even how to apply decals. The skills and tricks of the trade improve with each model a person builds. The magazine can not go into great detail on how to assemble a specific model. One must assume the reader has enough experience in building to be able to read between the lines. They can't go step by step, that is what the instructions are for. The magazine is full of tips for the beginner as well as the advanced builder. The Q & A section of the magazine is informative and at some times comical. "I put decals on my Tiger tank and they wont stick. What am I doing wrong"? This lets you know that person lacks the basic skill of applying decals. Then the answer will have to go into detail, that will not be needed by a more advanced builder. On the other hand, a section on installing PE parts will be totally baffeling to a beginner. He will have no idea what PE is. This is why you have to have a compromise. You don't want the magazine too boring for the advanced builder or too technical for the beginner. And, that is not easy to do. I think FSM is doing a very fine job trying to walk that fine line.

When I started modeling, the only magazine I had access to was Scale Modeler, which was always hit or miss. The articles always told what the modeler did, but rarely told how they did it. I had to figure out a lot of stuff by trial and error, and I ruined a lot of kits in the process.

When I write technique stories for FSM, I really make an effort to put myself in the mind of a beginner, and answer the questions they might have, particularly when it comes to tricky tools and techniques. For example, when I did the Airbrush Troubleshooting story for the December 2004 issue, I wanted to show what commonly goes wrong, then provide the solution to the problem. I guess I try to write the articles I could have used when I was starting out.

Matt Usher @ FSM

QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk QUOTE: Originally posted by DanCooper I guess some people need to be taken by the hand, and shown which is the plastic and what is the glue. Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with being a beginner. Actually, it's unavoidable! But to complain that FSM ignores beginners is utterly ridiculous.

Sorry if somebody got the wrong impression from my words, I didn't mean that there is something wron with being a beginner, we have all been beginners at some point, if that beginner finds FSM too complicated, than I suggest another hobby would perhaps be more suitable for this person.
I think FSM could very well be considdered a course "Modeling 101".

Vyrus, First , your opinion was more of directed rage than explanation, what does FSM leave out?. What do you consider beginner topics? Second , none can help if you just vent steam without motion! Tell these nice people what YOU feel is missing? Compared to some of the work I see posted on this site I feel like a beginner and I have been at it for 40 yrs! Every day is a learning day and what you learn now may help later!! You have to search for the answers to some of the difficulties you encounter and not blame it on FSM, after all it is just ONE magazine not the Rosetta Stone of mdeling. FSM cannot just Keep running an article like "Kit building for beginners" every issue can they??? what happens to the guy 4 issues down who just starts and feels the way you do?? Does FSM run the article forever?? You took up the hobby and the answers are right here in these forums if you just ask.

Have to agree with Brian, any publication needs to assume that the reader has some fundamental knowledge about the topic.

Looking at the forum here I see a lot of questions asked by people that are still aquiring that fundamental knowledge.
If you can read Japanese I would recommend some of the japanese publications that will really take you from opening the box down the road towards sculpting, casting, etc.

Also like Matthew Usher said it is sometimes difficult for us more experienced person to answer simple beginners question.
My son at times asks me why I use tool X and not tool y, and I have to do a double take and think about it. My hand at times will automatically grap cutter X and not cutter Y and another time cutter Y and not cutter X.

Like many here, when I started there were hardly any publications or similar avialbale for us, as for tools also very little we had to make to with whatever we could lay our hands on.
Getting advise from a more experienced modeler and being able to ask questions was a red letter day in my calendar.

Like probuilder said be more specific and this will help FSM improve the publication or simply ask more questions on the forum here about areas where you got problems.

HTH.

Here's my opinion on this:
First, I read FSM for the pure enjoyment, and entertaiment of a subject/hobby I love.
Second, I read FSM to learn new "stuff". Both technique's and general info.
Third, I read/keep FSM as a refference library.
When I saw my first FSM (around 1990?) I had been building models for decades. Having said that, I was still using tube glue and brush painting fron little Testors bottles. I had know idea what PE was either. But the more I read, the more I tried, the more the stuff in FSM made sense. As time goes by, I am constantly going back to articles I had read. This is when they become a tremendous help to me. I've learned about the airbrush, putty, and yes PE, etc. by reading FSM.
IMO, the more you read, the more you you build, the more FSM will be relevant to the level of building weather beginer or "pro". I always felt FSM had something for everybody.

QUOTE: Originally posted by DanCooper QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk QUOTE: Originally posted by DanCooper I guess some people need to be taken by the hand, and shown which is the plastic and what is the glue. Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with being a beginner. Actually, it's unavoidable! But to complain that FSM ignores beginners is utterly ridiculous. Sorry if somebody got the wrong impression from my words, I didn't mean that there is something wron with being a beginner, we have all been beginners at some point, if that beginner finds FSM too complicated, than I suggest another hobby would perhaps be more suitable for this person. I think FSM could very well be considdered a course "Modeling 101".

Hi, Dan!
I knew you weren't slagging beginners, but I justed wanted to emphasize to vyrus724 the obvious fact that none of us here look down on beginners, and in fact try to do all can to help them grow as much as they want.

I sincerely hope vyrus724 has taken the time to return to this thread to read the replies.

Don't gve up yet. Perhaps you need to look at a different perspective then the one you have. Read the mag for knowledge, log on and read the various threads.. for knowledge, ask questions to get a better understanding of that knowledge. The only way to grow is to seek out knowedge, read, study , read some more, study some more. Get my point. Your skills will vastly improve.

To all at FSM thank you for your love of the hobby.

:::opens can of worms:::


hey Virus, try being a beginner *GASP* SCI-FI guy, see where you fit in around here...

I feel yer pain, buddy...

I say don't give up. I mean, is not like FSM is the bible of Scale Modeling (or is it? I don't know, i've never read it). Besides, there are tons of other places informational magazines and websites out there that can provide what you seek. I, as a beginner, don't plan on relying solely on FSM or FSM boards for EVERYTHING. Of course FSM boards is high ranked up for me in terms of getting help, but still, i'm sure there are other places where you can get the help that can add to the help you acquired here and through the magazine.
Take FSM, FSM site, boards as part of the large scale help that you can get from many other places and you'll do just fine.
Also, I don't know if this is unacceptable in these boards, but maybe as part of the help, maybe you can provide other sources that are available out there that are solely for beginners. I know I could use those too. Better yet, have a beginner section on these boards? Probably too much to ask but then again i'm not and many others here are not the first newbie nor will be the last ones.

This thread reminds me of the frequent "What kind of glue or putty should I use" threads.

If FSM ever started writing for that level, it would be the death of it. Part of the fun of modeling is learning. I think I had more fun back in the days when I twisted the parts of the sprue, tearing chunks of plastic out, and using Testors gel cements. The finished models were not as nice, but damn, those 1/76 tanks with brushed on Testors square bottle enamels were fun.

Like many of the previous posters, I find the magazine way too basic. It is a 5 minute read and then it hits the pile. I would like to see at least one article a month on uber skills, a tour of an injection molding plant, a pattern maker, milling and cnc, or something like that. In short, I want to see things way beyond my skill level that make my jaw drop. If it goes any more basic, it will be doing step by steps of snap-tite kits

"Vyrus,"
Beginner-level modeling articles are widely available in any local public library. You'll find that they have books on everything from building basic models to basic dioramas. What the majority of FSM's readership relies upon is a diversity of content of many different modeling subjects. Frankly, seeing advanced articles and insanely-detailed model-builds gives me some inspiration and opens my mind to new techniques I may use in the future. Honestly, if someone is making the commitment to purchase a subscription to the magazine, they are a little more advanced than just your average snap-together builder. Don't get me wrong, we still need articles like weathering, washes, and choosing an airbrush, but we need to see the more advanced stuff too. Also, those pages of advertiser "frivolities" help pay for the magazine and give guys like me a heads-up as to what my next kit idea may be.

I doubt Vyrus will reply to this post after being chastised for his/her opinions. After reading it, it all seems one sided. What a shame.....

Dan

It's a shame that he had such a poor argument to begin with..............

If it was one-sided, I guess the majority opinion of FSM's readership was heard.

Well, if one can't have a different opinion, than that is a shame isn't it. Even if we don't agree with it, we should at least respect it for what it is, a different opinion. I enjoy this magazine like most of the members here, but a negative or different comment/view doesn't rattle me into a defensive position. We should welcome these views, too. Most of you tried to rationalize with Vyrus, which I believe is the right thing to do. But let's keep the rest of the stuff out. If we can't take criticism, however warranted, then maybe we are looking in the wrong direction.

QUOTE: FSM staff may argue that most of their audience don't want beginner stuff, but I say that FSM has systemically narrowed down its readership by alienating beginners

I don't mean to be rude, but have you seriously taken a look at the contents of the last year or so worth of the FSM mag? I would say that AT THE LEAST every other issue, if not every issue, has some topic that is directly related to the beginner. I find that FSM is the one mag most tailored to beginners. If you find it lacking in that field, I'm sorry to say, don't look any further, as you'll be sorely disappointed.

I hope he comes by again to reply. Maybe there was a one-sided reaction, but I wasn't quite sure what grounds he was comming from. FSM, when compared to pretty much every other model related publication, is very clearly trying to reach the beginner audience, and I think that this is something obvious, so maybe some detail instead of an outright criticism would have been the better way to go.
Either way, what are ya gonna do. I find it really funny that people will go online to forums, under the cloak of complete anonymity, and actually get offended or scared off enough to leave. Hope he isn't one of them.

QUOTE: Originally posted by boybuddho I doubt Vyrus will reply to this post after being chastised for his/her opinions. After reading it, it all seems one sided. What a shame..... Dan

I didn't "chastise" him for his/her opinions, Dan. I strongly disagreed with his/her statements that FSM ignores beginners, which I found to be ridiculous, and clearly stated so.
The overwhelming consensus (and plain truth) is that FSM is very beginner-friendly. As I mentioned in my original post, a lot of folks believe FSM is way TOO basic, as we've seen proven in this very thread with a hearty bit of FSM-bashing.

You'll rarely see me strongly disagree in this fashion here at FSM, as I always respect other's opinions and do my best to see things from other perspectives, but I felt that Vyrus' comments were sufficiently off-base to warrant such a strong response.

Dan, you seem to be championing an individual's right to an opinion here, but does that not also hold true for opposing opinions and views, in any case?

Additionally, the blatantly belligerent tone of Vyrus' post invited a much harsher response than he/she indeed received, in my opinion. I think we all took it pretty easy on him/her, in the spirit of respecting opinions. Personally, I bent over backwards to emphasize the point that we were not in any way belittling beginners here.

QUOTE: Originally posted by boybuddho Well, if one can't have a different opinion, than that is a shame isn't it. Even if we don't agree with it, we should at least respect it for what it is, a different opinion.

Does "respect" mean I can't openly disagree with statements I feel are completely wrong, Dan? As I mentioned in my previous post, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but conversely, everyone is entitled to comment on those opinions when they are stated in a public forum.
I don't think anyone here denies Vyrus' (or anyone's) right to his/her opinions, different as they may be, it's just that everyone here DISAGREES with his/her statements, for obvious reasons.

Big difference, disrespecting and disagreeing.

Check and mate