Candidly speaking ...

Well my comment was only one off shock at first as to where everyone was after my time away. I didnt know it would stir up this much interest.

As for me i used to love blogging my builds and would go into real depth as to everything i did.I dont  tend  to blog anywhere really now. this is because one of  my builds was torn to pieces on this very site and a few members i really liked stuck up for me and left because of it. I wont mention any names but after the person waded in on my build with this is wrong thats wrong and thats not right, that gap is to big between turret and hull ETC all manufacturers mistakes i felt like throwing my model in the bin. Before those comments and the massive row on here i was really happy with my model. It was a case of it should have been said in the way of politeness, Like Andy that is very nice but in the future to make it even better you might want to change this and that ,sort of thing. I still love modelling and i do this for my self pleasure but i rarely blog anything. That was wiped out of me and i have never felt the same. I expect that's how some of the newbie,s leave some forums , to intimidated by arrogant posters thinking they know it all  and others are beneath them. I still put up my builds on MSC and Military modelling but mainly the finnished product. I do describe my builds however in magazine articles for those that follow and like my work. I must say that MSC is by far the friendliest site i have been on and i cant recall any crossed words what so ever,its not that sort of forum. It does have freedom of speach and a chat room which is great. I do show reports on there for people that fail to make certain shows and post up lots of piccies and there are some very talented guys on there that are not up themselves and are willing to share their knowledge.Andy A

Bodge that is sad to hear about what happened. I for one hold your builds in high regards, and definitely think you should carry on with your building blogs as before. There is always gonna be some stuff shirt blowhard know it all snob who is gonna chime in and rain on the parade. And when they bash the kit you are building for mistakes the manufacturer may or may not have have made? Oh well! That is beyond your control, and if the kit does not meet their standards. Remarks are best  made as to how to help the builder correct those deficiencies, if they feel so inclined. Constructive criticism above all is best delivered in a manner where it is constructive and not merely critical. Especially here. This is a hobby for Pete's sake, and not something we do where lives, fortunes, or the fate of nations is at stake.

"It's only a model".

Yes there are a lot of miffed feelings around here right now and your thread is just the latest and currently longest surviving where the members have aired their grievances. I do hope that you pull on your internet body armor, go build some more, and share your work for us to see. Ignore the blowhards and take pride in your work.  If there is a grain of truth in their rants, sift thru and find what is useful, but do not let them take the joy out of your passion here. And speaking for myself, that is what this hobby is to me, a passion.

Stikpusher, you said pretty much what I was thinking and did so quite well; all valid points and I hope well taken. As for the forum, it's pretty much the only one I go to, due to time constraints as well as getting all the help I need right here. I certainly subscribe to the notion that the forum is only as good or bad as those who contribute, moderators notwithstanding. That being said I think there's room for other "outlets" on the web to vent, etc. however the fact that people are encouraged to stay on message in this forum is probably for the best.

I enjoy the people here that I've come in contact with and also still enjoy getting FSM every month. To me, for the price it's the best modeling magazine and I suspect I will continue to subscribe for many years to come.

What i said is gone .

Shut up you inconsiderate gasbag or I will come to the west coast and make you give me your lunch money.

tread

Well, I for one hope you guys stick around to help newbies like myself improve and become more involved. I have just joined the site a couple months ago and I see quite a bit of good here. I'd hate to have it die off when I've just gotten started!

I joined back here in 2008 or so, first learning the craft and picking up a lot of good tips from the masters and veterans. This site used to be rocking and whenever someone dropped an idea, there'd be a counterpoint in 10mins or less. The idea exchange in this place was second to none, not to mention the constructive criticism and detailed how-to's when a newbie asked a question on technique. Whenever someone made an incorrect fact about the Eastern Front, Manstein would post a scanned page from some obscure out-of-print book on his shelf, or reference a scanned page of correct camoflauge patterns on an Ausf Z variant of 555th Abeiltung in Yugoslavia.

Those were the days. Life got in the way and I stopped building but I always came back every month, to see what the guys were up to and what beautiful models were being made. Then it became three months, and six months, and a year. The format has changed a lot. I have had to relearn the navigation and the updates aren't as frequent. I will be checking out this MSC and hopefully see some of the old hands at work again. It's a shame because this was a real gem of a community, and while I can't offer any solutions to reviving it, I appreciated it enough to lament it's decline.

One solution that couldn't hurt would be to  still contribute here,while checking in on MSC,thats what I plan to do.This is a good site and I still plan to be around,while still keeping up with the guys who are elsewhere

Its gone 

lol

Hasenpfeffer

Well, I for one hope you guys stick around to help newbies like myself improve and become more involved. I have just joined the site a couple months ago and I see quite a bit of good here. I'd hate to have it die off when I've just gotten started!

No problem with me staying. There are still plenty of great people here and certainly more to follow.

I have been reading thro' this post.

To be honest I don't know what has been going on but then I'm always the last to know.

I do know that I miss 'manny' but there are always House Rules and if you find them oppressive then Yes you will migrate to other sites.

I joined MSC just for an extension to meeting other modelers and seeing their builds and now I am meeting you all again over there[:D.

However I am not giving up on this Forum although one thing I do notice compared to other Forums is that the Moderators do not join in on the posts/Chat/Banter, why is that I wonder?.

Perhaps the points people have raised will bring about some changes; I do not think they should be ignored...cheers....Kenny

Things do seem to be picking up again here, which is good.

Kenny, i had noticed that as well. But i think on those other sites the Mods are just regular modellers who happen to have taken on the role of Mods.

This is the only forum i come on thats related to a magazine, so i don't know if the others are the same. I just figure that here the mods are working for the company that runs this whole thing and modding this forum is just one of their jobs. I know the Mods here also build kits, but they seem to be for reviews in the mag, so they can't really show them here and maybe they have to stay impartial due to the makeup of the forum.

Thats my guess anyway.

I'm not much for commenting in discussion as this but will add my few thoughts.

Yes I have noticed drop in activity and have been concerned.  In one way or another figure it will eventually come back to normal and everyone or new members will get back to building and less complaining.  There's rules in everything and either you like them or you don't, that's for the individual to decide.  I believe there are many freedoms here and I have had the privilege to meet many great people.  I believe some rules need to be in place and I have not found anything here to be overbearing, then again as I have said I usually do not participate in such discussions and concentrate more on building my models.  If I can make friends along the way that's even better if not I will just keep building anyway.  My life has to many other real problems to deal with rather then to come here and make more, I come here to relax and escape some of those real problems.

I'm not one of the old members but not new either, not sure where that puts me   I do plan on staying here and continuing on as always.  I can only hope that my friends I have met on here will also continue but if not I wish them the best, I will miss them if they leave but to each their own.

As already said, things are what you make them and I will be here to see what I can make.  I have not been around as much lately because of some misfortunes with family health and hospital visits, keeping up with work, still settling from my last move, daughter leaving for the Navy, dog sick and a list of other things.................

Between all of that, I will be here building my models and having fum.

Bodge sorry to here of your experience you had but I do what you to know even though I do not know you, have seen some of your work and had always thought it to be some of the best.  You are among those who influence and motivate me to keep trying.  Would absolutly love to see more of your work and how you achieve it.

Kind of a run on but that's all I have to say on this subject.  Will see you all in your WIPS or in mine.  Keep on building

WOW!! Things have really changed since my last 'lurking session". I was an active member, up to losing my home during hurricane Sandy. I didn`t visit the site much in the last 2 1/2 months but still read my e-mails of post notifications and had no idea the "S" hit the fan around here. I really love this forum and learned many things from the "veteran" members and feel their mass exodus will definately hurt the community. That said, the rules are the rules and are plainly laid out for all to see...if you don`t agree with them, move on. I will be visiting the other forums mentioned, but will always have my foot-in-the-door at FSM.

...and I thought it was because everyone was trimming and assembling bogies or something.  I know I am!

But it is unfortunate that the vocal uber experts get so hot under the collar bashing kits.  All criticism and no progress make for few finished models, which is what this hobby is about.  The ones who will mock me and say "No-no-no-no-no-no, the hobby is all about total accuracy, and anything below that is an unbuildable cartoon caricature of a toy egg plane!" are deluding themselves and wasting our time.  While it is useful to know about inaccuracies, I find that following through with every single correction bogs me down and saps all the fun out of building models. The DML T28 is rife with mistakes, but I decided that I can live with the ones I can't fix, and will fix the ones that I can.  I did notice a lot of poor engineering and sloppy shortcuts that I found a little suprising, but in the end I will have a cool looking model.

I think the ones who just build without worrying about "fatal flaws" are the hapiiest (and most productive) modelers.  Call them "aasemblers", but I'm sure they don't give a rip.  Build to have fun and please yourself.  If your'e not having fun, hang up the X-Acto and take up stamp collecting or something.

I'm now putting on my flame suit and ducking for cover from the rain of fire that is sure to follow from all the angry stamp collectors...

Somebody slammed Bodge?

There's another website?

I guess work really IS getting in the way.......

Sheeesh. I had no idea. I guess I've been away too long!

Well, as a long-member of FSM, and a featured author along with wbill76 and a few others here, my loyalty is always, and always will be, to FSM. Without this forum and magazine, I wouldn't have the recognition as a modeler that I have enjoyed thus far,. So, you won't find me migrating to any other sites just for the "social" aspect of it--though I've got NO PROBLEM with people who either have, or do.

Personally, I've been on a complete tear since 2010, having moved in down with my fiancee', Jenn, own to North Carolina, and doing toooooooo much traveling and work with my "job", and frankly, it's been hard to commit to any project that has taken more than a few weeks to complete; ergo, my recent spate of 1/72 builds. (Newest one, a Sturmtiger, coming any minute now....)

Frankly, I have to admit to being a little surprised that anyone would quit blogging or posting because of criticism, no matter how bad, unless you were really convinced that your model was just a pile of junk--and we all know how your models shine, Andy. Please give it a second thought. Your insecurity about your impressive level of skill and finishing is frankly, "rediculous", as you yourself put it. If someone doesn't like it, screw 'em! (Don't kick me off the forum, TIm--it's well intended!! ) I have always considered you an exemplary modeler, but have lamented your lack of sharing your blogs/build, Please reconsider.

The software change WAS a BIG PITA. And annoying. I have to admit that it put me off for a while. However, it's not that hard to figure out, but I HATE that you can't edit a post once you've made it. Wish they'd figure that one out.

I have to say that I've checked out other forums, and, in my opinion, none of them seem to have had,or have, the "personnel problem" that FSM has had over the years. Perhaps that goes with being the nation's largest, most visible, most accessible website and forum? Maybe instead of blaming th moderators, we ought to ask ourselves why we have so many of these brew-ups? Why the incivility and provocation that has undoubtedly happened in the past here? Maybe we just get more of the anti-social or ornery types by default? Some of the other forums are definitely more discerning in their membership requirements and "professionalism". WHY? ANd does that work to keep out the malcontents? Lots to ruminate upon..... I do have to say that Manny was indeed a close friend of mine of a long time, but even I saw him go from being more of a valuable modeler on this site (whose dioramas and figures were among the best ever) to being more of a provocateur and jester. Why? I don't know. I'm sad to hear that he finally got the ban, but it was a long, long time coming. I can't say I'm surprised. Will that make me run from the forum? No. There's always new blood, and the "old blood" here is still here, frankly. I was genuinely surprised at how many people weighed in on my Leopard build just recently. Hey man; this forum is what you make it. I don't blame the moderators for wanting to keep order; after all, the rules are posted at the door.

Anyway, blah, blah, blah. Heavy Arty's response made me laugh. I hope to have enough time at the bench this Spring to start a good old fashioned "involved" project. One thing's for sure--you'll see it HERE first.

Hi Doog 

I like your post and you are missed. just FYI you can edit your posts or pics with the little pencil at the bottom of the page..  if I read your post correctly .

I use it all the time.

rock on bro'

tread 

edit... forgot to mention the 1/72nd Leopard     .....NICE !

Real G, I don't think kit bashing or rivet counting caused the last hoop-la. I find that doesn't happen here much...good thing.

the doog

Sheeesh. I had no idea. I guess I've been away too long

Yeah, you and me both Karl. 

I haven't been spending a lot of time in the Armor forum, but I had slowly noticed the absence of many of the long time members.  I hadn't realized scratchmod, wing_nut, dupes, just to name a few and gone to another site.  Too bad because I've been here close to 7 years now and this has become like a second home to me.  Its sad to see so many familiar names disappear from this site, but I'm heartened by the fact that they've simply moved to another site that's open to new members.  I may pop over to that other site just to say HI to the members, but I'm not leaving FSM.   I'm not the most prolific poster or builder, but I plan on staying here for a good long time.  . 

The changes that have occurred over the last few years haven't bothered me much...where I work change is the name of the game, so I guess I'm used to such things.  Same as people coming and going... at work we have so many new faces coming in and then just as quickly leaving;  and even old timers sometimes pack up and leave.  You kind of get used to it....

I agree with you that maybe we have to take a look at ourselves and ask why these things happen.  Hopefully the members that have weathered all the turbulences and changes will learn from it and become wiser, making the FSM forums a better place.

Anyway I intend to read more threads, post more responses, answer more questions, build more models and buy less kits!   

ok, forget the buy less kits....that will never happen!!

Peace out treadheads!

treadwell

Hi Doog 

I like your post and you are missed. just FYI you can edit your posts or pics with the little pencil at the bottom of the page..  if I read your post correctly .

I use it all the time.

rock on bro'

tread 

edit... forgot to mention the 1/72nd Leopard     .....NICE !

 

Yep, what tread said....

I do it all the tiem to correct my spleling erorrs...

Real G

If your'e not having fun, hang up the X-Acto and take up stamp collecting or something.

Trouble, i wouldn't call it a mass exodus. A small number seem to have left this site for good. A few are visiting much less and a some more, includeing myself, have simply found another site to add to our list but still visit here regulally.And things seem to have picked back up again and plenty of new members are joining. So its really all been blown out of proprotion.

Ernst, most of the guys that left were aircraft builders. Dupes hasn't been posting here much for a couple of years. As far as i know, Wing Nut is still around, and you won't see any of those 3 or any of the other pure armour guys on that other site. In fact, you will find very little armour there full stop.

Real G, this had nothing to do with people pointing out errors in kits. And some people are interested in historical accuracy, just as people are interested in finding out how to make there kits better. Of course, some can tell you that in a very un polite way. If somone nicely points out errors in the kit, you don't have to follow the advcice, just say thank you but i am happy with it as it is.

Teadwell, thanks for that heads-up about the editing capability! That's a relief to know!

Thanks for all....

You too,Ernest!

Teadwell, thanks for that heads-up about the editing capability! That's a relief to know!

doog, in March I will be 80yrs old and I even I could figure that out

Its good to see you back and posting!.

My remarks above are what a forum should be about,  'space to have a laugh' as well as being serious.

My own builds are always open to criticism simply because my skills are not as good as many others but I don't go off and sulk about that, I carry on and I'm happy enough, ( I think )

However as many people have already said, DON'T BE NASTY in your remarks.

With regards to the other forum, which has been mentioned, I do post on that one and have met-up with others from this forum; but I am still here and will be whilst I am still modeling.

This is still a very good forum with some great builders whom I respect and welcome their advice even if I don't follow it. ( damned if I can get this weathering and chipping sorted out )...cheers....Kenny

woah, wha'd I miss??

Bish

Ernst, most of the guys that left were aircraft builders. Dupes hasn't been posting here much for a couple of years. As far as i know, Wing Nut is still around, and you won't see any of those 3 or any of the other pure armour guys on that other site. In fact, you will find very little armour there full stop.

Real G, this had nothing to do with people pointing out errors in kits. And some people are interested in historical accuracy, just as people are interested in finding out how to make there kits better. Of course, some can tell you that in a very un polite way. If somone nicely points out errors in the kit, you don't have to follow the advcice, just say thank you but i am happy with it as it is.

Not sure of the referral but the "other" site was formed by an armor only regular from here, scratchmod, wbill has become a moderator at that site, and a large number of old FSM armor regulars are there.

Now with that said like spacepacker, I visit and post on both sites. It is interesting to watch what happens on each site.

This site has had a big influx of newbies. There was a period where a post could last on a page, untouched for 5 days. Many of the "old" timers like myself or doog can remember a time that posts would run off the page in less than a day constantly.

As my younger brother...by another mother Heavy Arty said....blah, blah, blah

OK...I covered the all the bases...time to get off the ammo box

Rounds Complete!!

redleg12

Bish

Ernst, most of the guys that left were aircraft builders. Dupes hasn't been posting here much for a couple of years. As far as i know, Wing Nut is still around, and you won't see any of those 3 or any of the other pure armour guys on that other site. In fact, you will find very little armour there full stop.

Real G, this had nothing to do with people pointing out errors in kits. And some people are interested in historical accuracy, just as people are interested in finding out how to make there kits better. Of course, some can tell you that in a very un polite way. If somone nicely points out errors in the kit, you don't have to follow the advcice, just say thank you but i am happy with it as it is.

Not sure of the referral but the "other" site was formed by an armor only regular from here, scratchmod, wbill has become a moderator at that site, and a large number of old FSM armor regulars are there.

 

Then i guess we are talking about two different sites. The one that some guys have joined in the last couple of months is SP&R.