Thanks Aggieman, glad you took the time to reflect, and hopefully it brought some joy.

    Your post optimizes the hard part of my challenge. As adults most of us have disposable income and access to a plethora of material for research. Most of us find this to be " the best part of the hobby", I agree, I love snooping around old pictures or scouring the web for that perfect reference photo, BUT to me it adds stress....I am not a skilled scratchbuilder, even as an adult PE is EXPENSIVE, Not to mention superglueing my fingers together. 

    Also as an adult, the expectations from others provides more stress. Face it we all have one of those folks hiding in the back. Some can ignore and forge ahead, others stagnate, torn between fufilling someone elses vision and just building to be happy.

      I'm guilty of both.....however I try hard to let the builder do as they please. In actuallity short of a contest very few people outside of our hobby see our work, and unless they are interested heavily in the subjects they will never know the intracies.

   Have I taken my own "challenge"? Not recently, but I have an old Trumpeter T-55 on the shelf that might just hit the spot.

armornut

     So I have been mulling this around for a bit, and by no means meant to insult anybody who chooses to accurately portray objects in miniature.

     The question was posed by another member....." Why ..so....seroius?" Good question. We ALL strive for that "perfect" model, all seams filled, perfect canopies, all road wheels or wheels in general on the ground. Yea we all do it.

     Think back to when we were kids...that tube of orange Testors, a couple bottles of Testors enamel, the synthetic brush from your water color set ya got last Christmas, and of course " THE KIT".....OH that beautiful boxart showing an exciting scene and our imagination running wild with the " masterpiece" we were about to create.

      Now we have grown and returned to the hobby, the "GOLDEN AGE"  so to speak. Most of us chase PE, aftermarket upgrades, and rare grainy black and white photos of a one off mod to build our " KIT". What hapoened? Those of us who still have some hair pull out from the roots when we smudge the paint, forget a seam, god forbid a fingerprint on the glass. Hobby still fun? Heck yea but " WHY SO SERIOUS?"

     My idea is to challenge my fellow modelers to one day just slap a model together, be damned seams, fit, and alignment....let the 10yr old part rule. Not all builds, not the 200.00 Trumpeter kit, or that rare find from your past...unless ya want to... just remember the hour or so of FUN we had.

    So to end this long winded post if nothing else just give it a thought. I'd bet it takes as much skill now to produce a glue bomb now as it did to strive for that " perfect" build did then.

    Interested in everyones thoughts.

 

Now this is a good topic for discussion.  

When I was a kid, I'm pretty sure the concept of perfection just was not something I really understood, beyond any Biblical references of the one perfect man.  Back then, when I managed to get a new kit, I'd typically have it built and ready for action before the end of the day.  Kits were far cheaper those days (on a lesser economy where people didn't typically make the kind of money they do these days), and mistakes I'm sure were common but nothing stood out to my young eyes.

When I returned to the hobby in the mid 90s and built that first kit, I did it just as I used to as a kid.  And I literally recall thinking, airplanes don't have that seam line running down the middle of the fuselage.  This is an obvious detail that went right over my head as a youngster.  When I restarted the hobby, I did so as an adult with adult wages and abilities.  I also did so at the onset of the internet, so unlike the 70s where my only "research" would have been possibly looking at photographs in aviation books my parents had, or watching WWII movies like Midway or 633 Squadron, now I can literally find hundreds of web pages featuring images of actual subjects that I am interested in building.

As an adult, I continue to maintain that no one currently living is perfect.  I embody a delivery excellence attitude both in my professional career and in my modeling hobby. Do I always deliver excellence?  Nope.  But I do feel like I do good work by and large in both arenas.  My career work habits follow me to my workbench.  I focus a lot on details, and I do strive to do things as well as I can, but there are times when I simply cannot find photographic evidence of how something really looked, and it is in those times where I have to get it to a point where it looks "right" or "good enough" and move on.

Still, I have had some kits where I just wanted to get something done.  These tend to come up after a long, involved build.  It can be really nice and fun to just sit down and build a plane with little worry about how it ultimately turns out, at least beyond the point of "good enough".

  Well said Tcoat. Love the anycronym.

armornut

     One persons " turd" is someones "diamond". What I might consider a " turd" that I have entered might just be the top placing kit on the table. Like wise my best kit could very well be seen as a " turd" by the top modeler at the event.

Yes, exactly. I don't build WW2 German armor and I don't need to have the best version of the kit on the market. So, a Tiger that's a turd to an expert is a high quality kit to me because I don't care if angles are off or details are inaccurate, just that it builds well and looks like a Tiger when it's complete.

And you may give a kit your healf-hearted try and it wins a contest. I could do my very best on the same kit and it's not as good as yours and doesn't place in the same contest.

In 1st, 2nd, 3rd contests, if there are only three kits in a category, everyone gets an award. Or if all the kits are "turds", the top three turds get 1/2/3.

Most/many of the 1/2/3 contests don't allow "sweeps". That is when one modeler enters multiple kits into that category and wins 1st, 2nd and 3rd place themselves. This is common in aircraft categories where the builders are often prolific and might enter many planes of the same category (i.e. WW2 single seat fighters).

But in a Gold, Silver, Bronze contest, only those kits that meet a certain standard get awarded. There could be no golds, one silver and five bronze in any particular category.

You feel you kit was really good if you get gold/silver/bronze as opposed to the "best of the turds" that were entered.

As has been said many times throughout this thread the one and only person that can determine if a kit is a turd is the builder. Be it the top of the line, most modern, 3,000 piece HK models 1/32 bomber or a 70 year old Aurora Warhawk with 6 parts including the stand if the modler is happy with the results it is in no way a turd. It has nothing to do with what the kit is like, what was used or how somebody else would build it.

Totaly

Unaccpetable

Results

to 

Desired.

TURD 

  I am thankful that I was not misunderstood.

  I thought about Ben ( Drums) and Jarrod after my post. I think it is AWESOME that Jarrod loves building with his dad and is proud of his accomplishments. If Ben and Jarrod place it is because of the skill in building and not a just "because award".  Unfortunately my opinion  the just "because awards" take away from the wins earned by other contestents. If it is worthy ABSOLUTELY it deserves recognition.

     That said it does not give permission to slam someone simply by the quality of the build. Take it as an opportunity to help them improve.

     One persons " turd" is someones "diamond". What I might consider a " turd" that I have entered might just be the top placing kit on the table. Like wise my best kit could very well be seen as a " turd" by the top modeler at the event.

Great Story TB!

armornut

   I also agree that no one should be turned away. I hope that was understood. Perhaps my skin was alittle this morning.

   I also agree that no one should be turned away. I hope that was understood. Perhaps my skin was alittle this morning.

TB,

That story rocked!  And it's great that you put on the superhero cape and helped that kid.    You are one of the FSM "Good Guys".  Bravo.

I on the other hand, focus on the darker side.  To paraphrase an old Klingon saying "Revenge is a dish best served on the contest table!"

And cold.  It has to be served cold.  Klingon table manners and all that.  If it's hot, the Gah kind of gets all woozy and stops moving. 

But seriously, no one should be turned away at a contest.  I once saw a guy show up at a contest where he looked around at the competition, then turned around and left with his model.  My heart kind of sank.

armornut

   That is a great story TB. Crushing someone openly at a contest is a bad thing, worse yet doing it from behind the keyboard. It is VERY hard to tell what someones condition is not being able to see or hear them. We SHOULD BE KIND until proven we don't have to be.

That type of elitist attitude stinks in all circles. I've never seen someone's kit turned away at a show I've been in, but I assume it happens.

I have overheard modelers talking about this entry used Brand X photoetch and they should have used Brand Y. I know Brand X is cheaper and easier to obtain than Brand Y, which is superior, but sometimes you get what you can get.

I remember Al Lafleche pointing out to me someone in one of his shows put a pre-made diecast halftrack in as an entry. That was odd because they are not very well done have a pre-manufactured look that is easy to spot.

They were also sold at the show by some vendors, so he wasn't fooling anyone.

   That is a great story TB. Crushing someone openly at a contest is a bad thing, worse yet doing it from behind the keyboard. It is VERY hard to tell what someones condition is not being able to see or hear them. We SHOULD BE KIND until proven we don't have to be.

       I also think it is fantastic that special needs individuals enter their work, HOWEVER placing an award on the entry "because" is wrong. Judge the model not the builder. While there is no harm in allowing someone to " win" there is a chance that it could develop into larger issues down the road.....life lessons need to be learned.

    Hopefully people see the point of this thread....WE are the only ones who should be allowed to call our models " turds" . I do not have to like what someone else has put out but if that us their best work and they are proud if it GREAT!! IF they WANT to improve then by all means lend a hand. IF they just want to "play" so be it..as stated until you REALLY get to know them save the harsh judgements for a more approperiate time.

    As a short side bar TB Iwould be really happy to bump into ya at the NATS say "HI" shake your hand and maybe uf we hit it off enjoy a lunch to talk. You are a well of knowledge and from what I have read throughout the years a down right GOOD MAN. It would be an honor to shake yer hand.

    So....we have a couple of " turd builders" hanging in the wings......care to let us in on your projects? If I had faster internet service I would regail you folks with more " turds" than you could flush.

Uh Oh!

     What are the judges gonna say abouy that? What got me turned off happened many, many years ago. In the original Club in Jacksonville, Ar, The C.A.M.S. always had a monthly show at Jack"s Hobby Shop(Jack Elliot was our main Sponsor!). We had our biggest show just Before getting our I.P.M.S. Charter. One Modeler was refused entry because they thought his model Wouldn't be worthy of showing.!! he walked outside and sat by the side of the building, reduced to tears. Trying to crush the model in his bare hands! I stopped him!

      I sat down beside him and asked what happened(I was president at the time and hadn't been told about this entry judges Faux pas!) When he told me I was furious! then I thought "there's more" Turns out he was somewhat  Emotional Special Needs. They hadn't dealt with that much yet! Why? He had been bullied and beaten many times because his DAD was a Viet Nam vet(A Baby Killer) as he was told that it's too bad he just barely survived his Helo Crash and didn't deserve to! Couldn't even talk to his son anymore because of his injuries!

       It destroyed the kid emotionally. He was told to build models as Therapy and mom was told that way he had more control over his young world!So he thought this model was worthy. Luckily he hadn't destroyed it yet. I saw it and made my comments and thought that was it. His Mom called me a few days later and thanked me for spending time with him. I took him under my wing and some time later he got his revenge. He took out cars and Armor with straight through wins!

       His Dad's eyes would light up when I would come over and help him work on the real car he patteerned that model on. A 56 Chevy with no windows or interior Just barely ran and didn't  have one straight panel to save it's life. And that's exactly what the model looked like! he won a trophy at the next summer's car show in L.R. and brought the trophy and salvaged model to one of our meetings. It was with great pleasure that I saw our judgeing panel eat crow!

       Since that day I have only competed one other time and had to prove the worthiness of my class win. Why? My ship although it looked it, was NOT Plastic, it was paper! And my first full use of P.E. and other stuff! I retained my plaque but vowed never to compete again. Instead I would Judge and Counsel those who asked why? Besides I have more fun doing that. And counseling a modeler is more fun than I ever dreamed!

Teenage Modeler

I mean, I don't have any "turd" kits in my stash right now. They're all either big kits or really intricate kits (P47 Tamiya or my 1/48 Revell Tomcat) so I don't think I am able to really make a turd kit if they're not meant to be turd kits. Who knows, maybe I'll stumble to this discussion again with a turd kit. This was a really nice topic though, and it shows how scale modelling can be fun for anyone, even when not going really serious about it. 

Turd kits can be high quality kits built to a more basic standard. Of course, if you got a high dollar kit, you'd probably not want to build it simply. Conversely, you can have an ancient, simple kit (a real turd) and put graduate level skills, aftermarket, scratch building, etc. and make it into a show stopper.

   Well TM, the name of the game is enjoyment. If you feel that you are NOT skilled enough to truly build a turd then perhaps we have something to learn from you.. This thread will be around as long as there is interest...and if it happens to fall into the electronic abyss, maybe you could start a new one. Model on Garth

armornut

  Your last sentence TM is the basic  premiss of this thread. It was a way to try to help my fellow modellers return to a simpler time where the " fun" was simply slapping a kit together and zooming off to bomb the coffee table. It has morphed into thus AWESOME thread that has been fun, informative, and even a bit competative.

    Thanks for jumping in, now that you are kinda up to speed TM, are you up to the challenge to build a " turd"??. Check out first post or ask it something isn't clear.

 

I mean, I don't have any "turd" kits in my stash right now. They're all either big kits or really intricate kits (P47 Tamiya or my 1/48 Revell Tomcat) so I don't think I am able to really make a turd kit if they're not meant to be turd kits. Who knows, maybe I'll stumble to this discussion again with a turd kit. This was a really nice topic though, and it shows how scale modelling can be fun for anyone, even when not going really serious about it.

Lol, gonna say ya aged well but.....

armornut

   You had DINOSAURS Real G??? Daaaanng.

 

PLASTIC dinosaurs, Armornut.  Dang, I'm not THAT old!  

   You had DINOSAURS Real G??? Daaaanng.

Armornut,

I was not allowed to bomb our coffee table.  Mom designated the carpet as the only sanctioned bombing range in the house.  Or I had to take it outside.  But that's where I played with my dinosaurs!  

Teenage Modeler

Before I got really in depth with scale models, I used to build a bunch of Gunpla models. One think that really sets it apart from other models it its playability, and the fact that you don't have to paint the robot for it to look good. You can pose it any way you want, and that you can see your own prized Gundam figure in the actual anime, seeing it do crazy stunts and high-speed fights in space.

Originally, model kits were assembled toys with moving parts and "molded in color" so there was no need to paint the majority of the kit. Even Matchbox did their kits in vivid colors that reduced the need to paint.

If you take a look at the older Renwal armor kits, Aurora and Lindberg kits, they had operating features. The Lindberg M46 Patton tank was motorized and the gun tube rotated back and forth as it crawled across the sandbox. Yeah, we played with these kits in the sandbox and there were many casualties in the "Great BB Gun Wars" many of us had.

I started building kits like the Gunpla when I was in college and Revell started reboxing Japanese model kits under the Robotech line. They were awesome and I still have many of my kits from the 1980s along with some nostalgia purchases from eBay the last decade or so.

  Your last sentence TM is the basic  premiss of this thread. It was a way to try to help my fellow modellers return to a simpler time where the " fun" was simply slapping a kit together and zooming off to bomb the coffee table. It has morphed into thus AWESOME thread that has been fun, informative, and even a bit competative.

    Thanks for jumping in, now that you are kinda up to speed TM, are you up to the challenge to build a " turd"??. Check out first post or ask it something isn't clear.

I went the opposite way - I was an airplane/armor guy back in high school, but got into Gunpla in college. Perfect timing for me, as I had an income by then.  And the kits were cheap too!  I was already using an airbrush and putty, so no turd Gunpla for me.

Actually, early 1980s anime kits were mostly terrible.    The first gen Gunpla were kinda dumpy and posed poorly.  The MSV kits that followed were a step up, but it took another decade until the HG and MG kits arrived.

Before I got really in depth with scale models, I used to build a bunch of Gunpla models. One think that really sets it apart from other models it its playability, and the fact that you don't have to paint the robot for it to look good. You can pose it any way you want, and that you can see your own prized Gundam figure in the actual anime, seeing it do crazy stunts and high-speed fights in space.

That was the time around my elementary school years, where I didn't have to worry about buying paint, or even cement, because it was all so simple to assemble. It made was one of the things that really gotten me into building scale models in the first place. I don't really build Gunpla anymore because I lost track of all the new Gunpla releases and such, as well as some fitment issues. Fixing it all can make it tedious, and can oppose to your original intent. But, it was really fun while it lasted. 

armornut

    Perhaps the system is a bit flawed, it really would make more sense for someone who knows armor to judge armor since it appears that accuracy is used in the criteria more so than the techniques used.

They rely on volunteers "off the street" as well as members of nearby clubs to assist in judging.

That means, you get who you get to judge. If the club leans towards a particular genre, say armor, the majority of their expertise lies in armor modeling and the club might have only one or two aircraft builders and no car builders or ship builders.

My local club is a military modeler club with armor being the main focus, but there are a few aircraft modelers and at least one highly rated airliner modeler (former USAF pilot, retired UPS pilot).

But the show is going to have the garden variety categories, cars, trucks, tanks, warplanes, ships, figures, sci-fi, etc. Someone has to judge those categories. You might be an armor modeler, but you have to judge all the categories that are there.

And some categories are so vast and popular that they have to split them into sub-categories like WW2 Armor, Open Topped Armor, Modern Armor, 1/72-1/48 Armor, or WW2 single seat fighters, multiple engined aircraft, etc.

That's why I was mentioning to Tcoat that the clubs will take the random guy off the street to help judge.

  My apologies for not giving props for your win Tcoat, how rude of me.

    Gamera, your post is part of the reason for this thread. I, like you, would never know about hubcaps on a car, and though I worked on aircraft, I am by no means an " expert". I primarily build armor also. Thinking about it armor is judged by people who know next to nothing about the subject....but they CAN tell you about and often enter thingies with hubcaps.

    Perhaps the system is a bit flawed, it really would make more sense for someone who knows armor to judge armor since it appears that accuracy is used in the criteria more so than the techniques used. I know that a super shiny color coat on a car is important...mostly..as well as it requires ALOT of work to achive it. However I have NEVER heard a judge say " that 2005 Daytona R/T Charger was never produced in Mary Kay pink that build shouldn't even be looked at" yet put the wrong unit designater on a piece of WWII German armor and holy smokes that kit is garbage.

    Anyway I'll still enter my " turds" and enjoy just being around fellow glue sniffers.

Hey Tcoat congrads on your win! 

And yeah contests are a little strange, I don't enter any except our own to support the club and rarely ever win anything. 

One thing you have to remember is that people generally don't judge subjects they know anything about. Say you're an armour modeler, well that's a subject you do know something about, but generally you'll have a couple of armour models in that catagory- so you're disqualified from judging it.

As a guy who builds mostly armour and aircraft the few times I've judged it's been auto and ship models- both subjects that I really know nothing about. So if someone puts hubcaps from a 2023 Ford Mustang on a 1959 Dodge I really would have no idea. So you're stressed to judge the model on assembly and painting rather than anything else.

As to the weird reasons you got knocked on stuff, I really don't have any idea- other than that contests are just odd. I really don't build for them anymore and don't really care all that much. 

This is the home-made friction lock I made for Tamiya's IS-3 Stalin.

It uses a polycap commonly used in Japanese robot kits, a "tee" cut from the kit's runners, and some plastic sheet and tubing.  The Chieftain will get one as well, as I remember my older build needing to have its main gun glued in place.

Tcoat

I am not a club sort of guy since my work can have weird hours and I doubt they would be interested in some random guy off the street helping out. Now maybe if there was an online forum show! 

When running a show, the more the merrier. More guys helping means more models can be judged more quickly.

Ah, well you see young Jedi, the Dark Side is ALL about cleaning up every single seam!  Once you travel down the path of the Dark Side, forever will it dominate your destiny...

Real G

 

The kit is chock full of heavy mold seam lines, providing lots of fun scraping and sanding that's for sure!  I hate-hate-hate-hate-hate smoothing out the seam lines on the wheels!  Bleah!  I got so sick of doing them after only two sets of wheels that I switched over to cleaning and installing the detail bits.  Much more fun!

 

Leave the seams on the wheels. How much can you see anyway. 

JOIN US

Armornut,

Over here we don't care how it's spelled.  This isn't the Star Trek forum.    If it were, they would HAVE TO KILL US NOW.  

I never owned a pair of Spock ears.  Or a light saber.  I guess I'm not a true "Trekkie" or whatever it is that rabid Star Wars fans are called.  I'm just here for the models.  

  LOL, think of the error as my Northern accent LOL

ka'plah! - YouTube

  Stay strong brother, you will succeed Q-pla.

I am taking Armornut's challenge to heart and will be doing my best to stay within his original intent.  I will abstain from using the aftermarket tracks, and anything I do add will be simple home made stuff (nothing elaborate).

When I first built the kit back around 1979, I added a tissue paper mantlet cover.  This time around, I am considering adding a poly-capped friction brake inside the turret, so the gun can remain moveable yet not require "model viagra" later on down the line.  My one concession to maintain "playability".    I will probably drill out and replace the headlight lenses since I stink at neatly painting small stuff like that.

The kit is chock full of heavy mold seam lines, providing lots of fun scraping and sanding that's for sure!  I hate-hate-hate-hate-hate smoothing out the seam lines on the wheels!  Bleah!  I got so sick of doing them after only two sets of wheels that I switched over to cleaning and installing the detail bits.  Much more fun!

Rob Gronovius

 

 

Tcoat

To be very clear I was not at any point condemning the judges on their choices nor disappointed that I did not win with everything I entered. The winners were all miles ahead of what I entered when you consider the judging criteria. My observation was more in line with the topic of the "turd" thread and how some were not even glanced at because on the surface they seem turd like so the rest was not looked at even though the "faults" found were very deliberate and in some cases hard to do. If I hadn't overheard (it was coincidental I happened to be nearby I wasn't following them around to listen) the judges comments on why mine were automatically rejected I wouldn't have given the situation a second thought.

 

 

 

I understand, it's just that with hundreds of entries to look, it's easy to make the first cut with some "noticeable" (to a judge) errors, so they can concentrate on a handful of entries to judge for 1st, 2nd and 3rd and then move on to the next category.

AMPS judging is even more difficult because they judge each entry for Gold, Silver and Bronze. They judge each kit based on a standard and if deserving, it gets a gold, silver or bronze medal. With this method of judging, there can be any number of G/S/B medals awarded or no medals awarded per category.

If you're interested, ask if you can watch or assist in the judging and learn to be a judge. It is a thankless job, especially if you're put in a category that you don't have a lot of experience with.

Yeah, as I said, my very first 1st place medal came from a car kit I put very little time into. I don't normally build cars and it was a very basic build.

 

Sure it doesn't help when they expected a few hundred entries and had two or three times that many! No doubt there was plenty of scrambling at the last minute.

I heard some of the organizers saying that they should probably do preregistration next time so they at least have an idea. When the doors opened in the morning there were lines ups both front and back that were over a block long each. You could see the panic in the registrars faces!

I am not a club sort of guy since my work can have weird hours and I doubt they would be interested in some random guy off the street helping out. Now maybe if there was an online forum show! 

Tcoat

To be very clear I was not at any point condemning the judges on their choices nor disappointed that I did not win with everything I entered. The winners were all miles ahead of what I entered when you consider the judging criteria. My observation was more in line with the topic of the "turd" thread and how some were not even glanced at because on the surface they seem turd like so the rest was not looked at even though the "faults" found were very deliberate and in some cases hard to do. If I hadn't overheard (it was coincidental I happened to be nearby I wasn't following them around to listen) the judges comments on why mine were automatically rejected I wouldn't have given the situation a second thought.

I understand, it's just that with hundreds of entries to look, it's easy to make the first cut with some "noticeable" (to a judge) errors, so they can concentrate on a handful of entries to judge for 1st, 2nd and 3rd and then move on to the next category.

AMPS judging is even more difficult because they judge each entry for Gold, Silver and Bronze. They judge each kit based on a standard and if deserving, it gets a gold, silver or bronze medal. With this method of judging, there can be any number of G/S/B medals awarded or no medals awarded per category.

If you're interested, ask if you can watch or assist in the judging and learn to be a judge. It is a thankless job, especially if you're put in a category that you don't have a lot of experience with.

Yeah, as I said, my very first 1st place medal came from a car kit I put very little time into. I don't normally build cars and it was a very basic build.

Rob Gronovius

 

 

 

Yeah, now, in each and every category, a few guys have to choose 1st, 2nd and 3rd place out of all those model kits. It's not easy, and no one is always happy with the choices.

When I was a kid, virtually every young boy and some dads built model kits from the 5 and dime. Today, only guys who remember what 5 and dimes were probably build.

 

To be very clear I was not at any point condemning the judges on their choices nor disappointed that I did not win with everything I entered. The winners were all miles ahead of what I entered when you consider the judging criteria. My observation was more in line with the topic of the "turd" thread and how some were not even glanced at because on the surface they seem turd like so the rest was not looked at even though the "faults" found were very deliberate and in some cases hard to do. If I hadn't overheard (it was coincidental I happened to be nearby I wasn't following them around to listen) the judges comments on why mine were automatically rejected I wouldn't have given the situation a second thought.

I didn't mention that my silver winner was a very basic OOB build literally thrown together one day and painted with what I had on hand. The bronze winner was the exact same kit with the addition of the full photoetch set (rails, guns, periscope details, etc) and was very well painted 100% per instructions. I guess my point is that the addition of detail does not always make a model "better" in everybody's eyes. 

The show really opened my eyes as to the ages of the builders. I expected to see a majority of the "5 and dime crowd" but I doubt they (well... we) even made up 20% of the attendees. I bet the average age was early 40s and there were probably more late teens early twenties than those of us that paid $1.50 for models at the 5 and Dime store. I even mentioned to my son (early forties) that I was very surprised at the age range since you always hear how this is a "dying" hobby. From what I saw not only is it not dying it is thriving with a whole new generation. Even most of the venders were late 30s or early 40s at best. It made me very happy to see. 

Tcoat

I didn't see a badly built kit in the place. Most were spectacular actually. Part of what took me by surprise was the shear scale of this show. I figured a couple of hundred of local models, a half dozen venders and maybe a few spectators. There were dozens of venders, around 1,500 models and I heard the people at the doors say there was something around 2,500 people throughout the day. There were people from Europe, the US and all across Canada. Probably was not my best bet for a first show! I will be attending my local show in September and hopefully it is closer to what I thought I was headed to on Sunday. FineScale was there taking pictures so I am sure the show will appear in an issue at some point. 

Yeah, now, in each and every category, a few guys have to choose 1st, 2nd and 3rd place out of all those model kits. It's not easy, and no one is always happy with the choices.

https://doogsmodels.com/2017/09/23/its-my-model/

I wonder if this is our Doog, Karl Logan? I know he ran afoul of the law and went offline for a while.

I built a lot of our (US) armor. A lot of kits I built, I gave to fellow soldiers. Sometimes I even built them in a particular bumper number and paint scheme to represent the track they served on.

When I left Germany, I gave my former platoon sergeant's boys my built and unbuilt kits. I gave a neighbor boy my built kits when I left Texas.

I've given kits to my nephews. Yes, even though they are too fragile for sandbox play, the kit on their dresser or shelf might inspire them to begin building models themselves. And really, that's an important part of our hobby, passing on the hobby to the next generation.

When I was a kid, virtually every young boy and some dads built model kits from the 5 and dime. Today, only guys who remember what 5 and dimes were probably build.

keavdog

 

 

By the looks of that collection you must have cornered the market on grey paint for a while!

Tcoat

JoeSMG

That gif has to be the work of an ex-wife or spurned girlfriend! The model was way too nice to suffer that fate otherwise! I find the lack of firecracker usage particularly egregious!

Nope!

https://doogsmodels.com/2017/09/23/its-my-model/

 

That's pretty damned funny.  I got rid of a bunch of models, mostly because they were displayed in the garage and the dust ended up sticking to/in the paint over time - ended up taking about a 4 year break from modeling.  I do miss a couple of them but it is a bit liberating.  I find myself buying the same models to redo...

Almost all of these are gone:

Note the flakvierling in the upper right from my previous comment lol

JoeSMG

 

 

Tcoat

Too late

 

 

 

 

That gif has to be the work of an ex-wife or spurned girlfriend! The model was way too nice to suffer that fate otherwise! I find the lack of firecracker usage particularly egregious!

 

Nope!

https://doogsmodels.com/2017/09/23/its-my-model/

Tcoat

Too late

 

That gif has to be the work of an ex-wife or spurned girlfriend! The model was way too nice to suffer that fate otherwise! I find the lack of firecracker usage particularly egregious!

   I agree Rob, thanks for seeing the tongue in cheek aspect. I have also seen what you have discribed, I won a special award at a regional contest with a King Tiger painted in ambush, it was a commission buikd for a friend and admittedly one of the best kits I have ever produced. It beat a Tiger I with zimmeret, the zimmeret looked like cake frosting and was washed in black, making it look like it just rolked out of a charcoal factory. The builder was so upset he didn't speak to me for months. When he finally did engage it was how inaccurate my model was, how unfair the judges were not seeing the effort put into his zimmeret, then he accused me of stealing one of his other kits. He hounded me until I threatened violence and I still think he thinks I stole his model. For the record I DID NOT TAKE HIS MODEL.

Rob Gronovius

 

 

armornut

   I also am truly apaulled that you would bring such obvious " TURDS" to such a time honored and prestegious event. How dare you! You obviously gave no forethought nor bribes to the keen eyes of those judges, the oddasity to think that free thinking and creativity could bring you into their good graces....wow I'm not sure I should accociate with you lest your " inadiqueicies" rub off on me and diminish my chances of glory.

 

 

 

I know this is tongue in cheek, but I've seen some very horrible builds.

 

When I was in Massachusetts, there was this terribly built truck that kept getting entered with a new paint job applied over the former paint job in each of the local shows on the "circuit". You coud barely make out any detail.

I think they finally gave it a 3rd place medal so it would have to be retired from competition.

I've seen children build some awesome kits, better than I could do at double that age. And I've seen grown men proudly display kits with glue marks on clear parts and finger prints on the finished product.

Everyone builds to a different standard which is why they say, build for yourself. But it is nice to get accolades from fellow modelers.

 

I built the 1/35 Tamiya Flakveirlilng Quad 20mm in a field applied winter wash over grey which commonly wore/washed off in great streaks and splotches as my build depicted. The comment from the IPMS judge was - "paint the whole model".....lol

armornut

   I also am truly apaulled that you would bring such obvious " TURDS" to such a time honored and prestegious event. How dare you! You obviously gave no forethought nor bribes to the keen eyes of those judges, the oddasity to think that free thinking and creativity could bring you into their good graces....wow I'm not sure I should accociate with you lest your " inadiqueicies" rub off on me and diminish my chances of glory.

When I was in Massachusetts, there was this terribly built truck that kept getting entered with a new paint job applied over the former paint job in each of the local shows on the "circuit". You coud barely make out any detail.

I think they finally gave it a 3rd place medal so it would have to be retired from competition.

I've seen children build some awesome kits, better than I could do at double that age. And I've seen grown men proudly display kits with glue marks on clear parts and finger prints on the finished product.

Everyone builds to a different standard which is why they say, build for yourself. But it is nice to get accolades from fellow modelers.

JoeSMG

 

 

Tcoat

 

...

And this took silver. I threw it in at the last minute just to round out some categories.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure it's easier to get consensus when judging technical aspects then on more subjective artistic merits - Your I-400 is a beauty in both realms, I can see why it placed. You must be disgusted with your other entries - I'll be happy to take them off your hands if you can't stand the sight of them anymore! 

 

I can see judging on tecnical aspects but it is narrow focus on them that I found interesting. They never even looked at the technical aspects since the imeadiate reaction to the "artistic" parts was a big no.

Too late

   I also am truly apaulled that you would bring such obvious " TURDS" to such a time honored and prestegious event. How dare you! You obviously gave no forethought nor bribes to the keen eyes of those judges, the oddasity to think that free thinking and creativity could bring you into their good graces....wow I'm not sure I should accociate with you lest your " inadiqueicies" rub off on me and diminish my chances of glory.

    Had it crossed your mind that perhaps that sci-fi judge ACTUALLY built that exact HK and was sent back naked thru time by none other than John Conner just to slap your AWESOME attempt to depict a COMPLETELY FICTICIOUS event.

    SARCASM, PURE SARCASM!! I like to show my stuff off however attitudes like what was displayed really take the fun out of it.

Tcoat

 

...

And this took silver. I threw it in at the last minute just to round out some categories.

I'm sure it's easier to get consensus when judging technical aspects then on more subjective artistic merits - Your I-400 is a beauty in both realms, I can see why it placed. You must be disgusted with your other entries - I'll be happy to take them off your hands if you can't stand the sight of them anymore! 

JoeSMG

 

 

Tcoat

LOLOLOOLOLOLOL

I just got home from a huge show where I had 7 models entered. Six of them were big prjects that I poured 100+ hours into and one I threw together one Saturday evening and was maybe 3 hours from start to finish. Anybody want to get which one took a silver

 

 

 

Congratulations on the win! May not be the one you wanted to place but you must of known it was a looker or you wouldn't have brought it!

Any chance we get to see them?

 

I had no idea what to expect but there were over 1,500 models there and I was totally outclassed in some of my builds. It doesn't help that the IPMS judges seem to have a totally different outlook on modeling than I do! I like to make things look as real as possible but they seemed to be looking more for precision in the subject and pristine paint jobs with no dirt or weathering even if appropriate to the subject. 

All of what I entered have threads on here someplace but here is a rundown.

Watched them look at this one. They took one look at the cracked paint on the roof and moved on without even a second glance. They didn't even peak at the form that said it was actually deliberate and very difficult to do. 

Was entered for OOB. Knew it didn't stand a chance but the highlighting of the promo chassis was fun so threw it in there anyway. 

Now... this may sound like I am complaining or something but I assure you that is not the case. I had a blast and the general public enjoyed my work. The Terminator one received  several People's Choice stickers which made me happy! What I did come away from it all with is that these contests are obviously judged by a different standard. Many of the categories (there were so so many) were won by the same person taking all three awards. One guy cleaned up in cars, another in armour and there was a guy for aircraft that just stood on the stage while they handed him award after award.  These guys seemed to invariably be IPMS members that obviously have done this a long time and know exactly what the judges are looking for. 

I am not in the hobby for awards and will continue to enter these shows for the fun of it but I will attempt to build a couple of models to their standards just to see what happens!

Tcoat

LOLOLOOLOLOLOL

I just got home from a huge show where I had 7 models entered. Six of them were big prjects that I poured 100+ hours into and one I threw together one Saturday evening and was maybe 3 hours from start to finish. Anybody want to get which one took a silver

Tcoat

LOLOLOOLOLOLOL

I just got home from a huge show where I had 7 models entered. Six of them were big prjects that I poured 100+ hours into and one I threw together one Saturday evening and was maybe 3 hours from start to finish. Anybody want to get which one took a silver

Congratulations on the win! May not be the one you wanted to place but you must of known it was a looker or you wouldn't have brought it!

Any chance we get to see them?

LOLOLOOLOLOLOL

I just got home from a huge show where I had 7 models entered. Six of them were big prjects that I poured 100+ hours into and one I threw together one Saturday evening and was maybe 3 hours from start to finish. Anybody want to get which one took a silver

I Have to add This:

              A Turd-needless to say, there's a big one lurking in some aisle or online ad. What is it? you may ask. Do any of you remember Lindberg's biggest competitor? That would be Pyro! they put out two kits that except for the name panels was the same kit-The Natchez and the Robt.E.Lee Mississippi River Steamboats. yes,I remember them well.

        I still carry the scar from the Blade on my first X-Acto knife breaking when trying to separate the deck from the sprue. Four stitches, Neat teeny ones, on the pad of my left thumb. Mom and dad had gone on vacation after the Christmas rush and Celebration with gifts and made me promise to be careful with my new tools and building models. I was careful and still bear a reminder. Oh, I have another Natchez, because I liked the kit anyway. Anything But the Robt. E. Lee, Which it seemed everybody was suddenly making! 

           The windows were only shadows of what windows would be and the Deck planks molded in, would work out to 12x24x26 foot pieces of coarse wood in real life. Not a scale for sure. But it looked neat painted in the colors on the Box Top art. Speaking of that.

             In the early mid Seventies I built two Pre-Production models and painted them for a company in Mt.Clemons, Mich. They were going to put out the sport version of the Valiant then in production and the Pontiac Turbo trans Am, The Turbo trans Am had to match photos from it's intro in the Detroit Auto Show. I did it and never saw anything from the company.       

            My model, or at least a photo wound up showing up on a model Company's Model Box in Japan! Funny that! I got got paid very well for those two but never did know what American co. was supposed to produce the things.

She looks nice to me Tcoat! Kudos for getting her done. 

I remember now that I do have some vintage Soviet/Warsaw Pact kits from the '70s and '80s stashed somewhere. I think Eastern Express and Kopro. Those would make an interesting 'turd' build... 

All done.

Total working time 22 hours 19 minutes.

Tools consisted of a dull exacto knife, a worn out medium brush, and two toothpicks (I broke one).

Although it does look pretty good all things considered it would certainly be considered a "turd" by my normal standards.

The gun could have used some thinning on several parts, hydraulic lines and filler on some seams.

The truck's paint is horrid, several parts are slightly warped and there is shiny super glue left uncoated on many small parts. Worst of all is that the front wheels have the stance of an 18 year old's Honda Civic!

I really enjoyed this basic build!

More pics over in my build thread.

keavdog

In my experience larger IPMS contests most entries are eliminated due to seams, mold lines, ejector pin marks etc.  IPMS starts with "was it built correctly" (perfectly).  Then on to the subject, scheme etc.  It's been a while since I put anything on the table but that's what I recall.  The old Tamiyacon contests in Alisa Viejo were super fun events and Mr Tamiya would pick what he liked.  Totally different judging so kinda depends on the event.

Good luck Tcoat - seeing what you've done I'd say you place at least.

 

Tcoat

 

 

cbaltrin

 

 

Real G

Awesome comments guys - thought provoking ideas are what it's all about!  Regarding older kits like Monogram's P-61 Black Widow, it did cross my mind to see if I could build it to the standards of the box art model.  The guys who built the box art kits for Monogram back in the 1970s were quite talented.

 

 

Real G, That Monogram P-61 will always have a special place in my heart. I had never heard of that plane before until I saw the Monogram box top. It was pure magic for me. All that interior detail. Radar. Turret. The overall odd design--not to mention the totally cool markings. Still panning on building one again-Times A Wastin....

Also,  as to the box art models -- I was justing thinking that would be a great GB for next year. Imagine yourself a box top builder for Monogram or some other company back in the day. you have to build the kit OOB and make look as good as you can with exactly what's in the box. Then you photograph it and make your own box top 

 

 

 

 

 

And you MUSt include the paints, glues, tools from the kit company in the picture. 

Ala Testers!

 

Oh, absolutely 

GreySnake

I was very disappointed when I purchased the 1/48 Tamiya P-51D and saw how barren the cockpit was. Would like to give the Monogram kit another go but I don't like the removable cowling and panel on the wing. 

Revell seems to have fixed the cowling issue--Get the big beautiful doll boxing. I fill and sand the Gun access panel.

cbaltrin

 

 

GreySnake

One kit I was very proud of was the Revell/Monogram 1/48 P-51D. I used a spray can of Testors chrome to paint it very heavily. There were many paint runs, fish eyes and maybe a finger print. None of that mattered to me I was just happy to have a shiny looking aircraft. 

 

 

 

 

Ahh yes, testors spray chrome, I remember the stuff well... Funny thing about the  Monogram P-51D, it took about 40 years for anyone to put something out with a better cockpit. I still prefered it over the Tamiya and Hasegawa 1/48 kits. If only Monogram had not made that that silly decision to go with the removable lower cowling.... Still a fun kit though...

 

 

 

 

I was very disappointed when I purchased the 1/48 Tamiya P-51D and saw how barren the cockpit was.

Would like to give the Monogram kit another go but I don't like the removable cowling and panel on the wing. 

   The Travel Air Mystery Ship and Caddy are UBER COOL, and with near masters skill can be built as the box art shows.......yea by me not so much. Still really cool kits.

cbaltrin

 

 

Real G

Awesome comments guys - thought provoking ideas are what it's all about!  Regarding older kits like Monogram's P-61 Black Widow, it did cross my mind to see if I could build it to the standards of the box art model.  The guys who built the box art kits for Monogram back in the 1970s were quite talented.

 

 

Real G, That Monogram P-61 will always have a special place in my heart. I had never heard of that plane before until I saw the Monogram box top. It was pure magic for me. All that interior detail. Radar. Turret. The overall odd design--not to mention the totally cool markings. Still panning on building one again-Times A Wastin....

Also,  as to the box art models -- I was justing thinking that would be a great GB for next year. Imagine yourself a box top builder for Monogram or some other company back in the day. you have to build the kit OOB and make look as good as you can with exactly what's in the box. Then you photograph it and make your own box top 

 

And you MUSt include the paints, glues, tools from the kit company in the picture. 

Ala Testers!

GreySnake

One kit I was very proud of was the Revell/Monogram 1/48 P-51D. I used a spray can of Testors chrome to paint it very heavily. There were many paint runs, fish eyes and maybe a finger print. None of that mattered to me I was just happy to have a shiny looking aircraft. 

 

Ahh yes, testors spray chrome, I remember the stuff well... Funny thing about the  Monogram P-51D, it took about 40 years for anyone to put something out with a better cockpit. I still prefered it over the Tamiya and Hasegawa 1/48 kits. If only Monogram had not made that that silly decision to go with the removable lower cowling.... Still a fun kit though...

Real G

Awesome comments guys - thought provoking ideas are what it's all about!  Regarding older kits like Monogram's P-61 Black Widow, it did cross my mind to see if I could build it to the standards of the box art model.  The guys who built the box art kits for Monogram back in the 1970s were quite talented.

Real G, That Monogram P-61 will always have a special place in my heart. I had never heard of that plane before until I saw the Monogram box top. It was pure magic for me. All that interior detail. Radar. Turret. The overall odd design--not to mention the totally cool markings. Still panning on building one again-Times A Wastin....

Also,  as to the box art models -- I was justing thinking that would be a great GB for next year. Imagine yourself a box top builder for Monogram or some other company back in the day. you have to build the kit OOB and make look as good as you can with exactly what's in the box. Then you photograph it and make your own box top 

I have been reading this, and may have commented back somewhere:

               Truth is I just finished a commission of Vessels for a friend. Not Perfect by any means. You work with what is supplied right? Outside observers have said WOW. Me, Meh! But the Meh was well taught. I have over the years been known to count rivets(More likely, hull plates and fasteners on ships). On certain types I was definiely enmeshed to a slavish attention to detail and realism.

              Somewhere along the way, Way back when, I  Did post a few photos. I asked myself, Self, WHY? Now in the scales I work now, I don't worry about oil canning and dents. It makes the little ships believable. Plus I paint them sloppier because I am going to cover them with weathering anyway. Plus a few wayward rust spots in the wrong place can be explained with a little figure, paint brush in hand, Doing his or her job on the ship.

             By doing this it is now a heckuva lot more fun, than it used to be. Thank goodness I found this reprieve in time. No More contests for me. The standards are to rigid for my old working fleet, which I planned, Built and Enjoyed every stinkin lousy minute of making mistakes, and then making them acceptable to my new found freedom. As has been said, I am back to what was summed up. It's MY model and I will enjoy building it the way I want, after all it is MINE!!!

One kit I was very proud of was the Revell/Monogram 1/48 P-51D. I used a spray can of Testors chrome to paint it very heavily. There were many paint runs, fish eyes and maybe a finger print. None of that mattered to me I was just happy to have a shiny looking aircraft. 

Tcoat - Good luck on your first contest foray!    It is good advice to closely observe the contestants' models for future inspiration.

Armornut - As Puss in Boots from Shrek II said "Our minds are becoming one..."  But yeah, the original Monogram P-61 box top model really impressed me back in the day.  And to be honest, those old box art build-ups still look good today.  I have a more recent Revell boxing of the same kit, but the build quality of the model on the box is best described as indifferent.

BTW, I just remembered something about the kit when I first bought it.  When I spray painted the parts gloss black and put them in the box lid to dry, my cat tried to lie down in the box!  So my P-61 had cat hair embedded in one of the upper wings!  

Mangoes Armornut?  I spent my summers eating way too many of them in my neighbor's tree house. The older kids living there would use their pocket knives to cut them in half, remove the seed, then score them and turn the skins inside-out.  Instant "hand grenade" treat!  Oh my gosh, my mom HATED it when I came home covered in mango juice.  That stuff got everywhere, stained clothing, and caused skin rash!

In my experience larger IPMS contests most entries are eliminated due to seams, mold lines, ejector pin marks etc.  IPMS starts with "was it built correctly" (perfectly).  Then on to the subject, scheme etc.  It's been a while since I put anything on the table but that's what I recall.  The old Tamiyacon contests in Alisa Viejo were super fun events and Mr Tamiya would pick what he liked.  Totally different judging so kinda depends on the event.

Good luck Tcoat - seeing what you've done I'd say you place at least.

   Just for kicks Tcoat, if you do place, quietly observe other competetors....guage their reactions, see if it co-orilates to the topic here. OR simply enjoy the contest. Best of luck my friend.

   RealG you are my brother from another mother 'cause the Monogram P-61 was one of the kits on my mind when I started this thread.....wierd....two!     Mangos...stop LOL

Real G

Awesome comments guys - thought provoking ideas are what it's all about!  Regarding older kits like Monogram's P-61 Black Widow, it did cross my mind to see if I could build it to the standards of the box art model.  The guys who built the box art kits for Monogram back in the 1970s were quite talented.

Regarding contest models, personally I feel they require a different mindset/approach compared to a "fun build".  Because frankly they are not fun, to me anyway.  We often ridicule the rivet counters, but in a contest, that's what you need to be to compete seriously.

But try not to take it too... serious.  Because at the end of the day, it's just a hobby, meant to provide enjoyment.  Of course, your mileage may differ considerably.

 

I have a bunch going into a contest for the first time ever on Sunday. I have little hope of wining anything but will be fun to see what they say.

Awesome comments guys - thought provoking ideas are what it's all about!  Regarding older kits like Monogram's P-61 Black Widow, it did cross my mind to see if I could build it to the standards of the box art model.  The guys who built the box art kits for Monogram back in the 1970s were quite talented.

Regarding contest models, personally I feel they require a different mindset/approach compared to a "fun build".  Because frankly they are not fun, to me anyway.  We often ridicule the rivet counters, but in a contest, that's what you need to be to compete seriously.

But try not to take it too... serious.  Because at the end of the day, it's just a hobby, meant to provide enjoyment.  Of course, your mileage may differ considerably.

cbaltrin

4) I don't enter my models in contests. Which is not to say I never would, it's just not why I build. I build for me and my enjoyment.  I did go to a contest recenlty however,  and brought my two little boys along since they like models. I actually went to see if I could buy some old kits for a good price, and I did, but I looked at the tables as well... Some judges were there and I overheard them commenting on some of the builds, nitpicking over some rediculous things. I muttered something under my breath and one of my boys asked me what was wrong. I told him "that guy can't see the forest because all the trees are in the way..." 

5) It's your model, you build it how you want -- when it's your model, it's your hobby.  

Remember, without modelers bringing models to the show, there would be no show with vendor tables and the ability to "see if I could buy some old kits for a good price."

Having judged kits before, and in one of the trickier categories*, So many of the models entered are so highly built that you have to nitpick to determine between 1st, 2nd and third.

Usually, the first place is easy to identify, and often second place is too, but who gets the last spot for a medal? You and I could judge the remaining half dozen contenders for third, and you pick one and I pick another. So we nitpick every little thing and the kit with fewer nitpicks gets third. All the rest of the kits that are probably better than anything I could do go home empty handed.

The other five guys that got nothing are also mumbling under their breath about the kits that won and the judges who chose another person's kit over their "masterpiece."

Next time you are at a show, stop, look at all kits entered in one category (pick one with about ten models), and try to determine for yourself which one gets 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Then ask your sons. The three of you will probaby only agree on one of the three kits. Welcome to the unappreciated world of model kit judging.

*I was often made a judge for the 1/72 scale armor category, but my expertise is modern US armor. In 1/35 scale, WW2 German armor is often its own category. But in 1/72 scale, all small scale armor is lumped together.

So I don't know that the Tiger has the wrong paint scheme and markings, the Panther should have had zimmerit, and the British tank has non-existant features. In 1/35 scale judging, these issues would automatically set those builds at a lower tier. But I'm going to judge them as if they are 100% correct.

If it was modern armor, I'd catch that the M1A2 in USMC markings is an inaccurate kit.

Then the other entrants complain that their kit might not have been built as well, but at least it was accurate.

cbaltrin

 

1) I have always enjoyed taking a kit that kicked my butt when I was a kid and kicking its butt now  . I mostly built Monogram kits when growing up. Stilll love building them and want to build them all by my adult standards. I by  no means want to build a perfect model (is there one?) with them--or any kit for that matter--but I do want to build an excellent model (model being the key word). 

 

One kit that kicked my butt was the ICM 1/35 T-28 Bridgelayer not sure if I'm brave enough to attempt building one even now! 

I have to say I am enjoying this thread. Thanks to armornut for posting this!

I have a few more random thoughts  on the issue which might even conflict with one another, but, they are random thoughts...

1) I have always enjoyed taking a kit that kicked my butt when I was a kid and kicking its butt now  . I mostly built Monogram kits when growing up. Stilll love building them and want to build them all by my adult standards. I by  no means want to build a perfect model (is there one?) with them--or any kit for that matter--but I do want to build an excellent model (model being the key word). 

2) As I get older and realize how precious time is, I am always weighing the 'best technique' against the time it would take to accomplish -- which is not to say I don't still get carried away sometimes....  For example. I have no issue putting the wings/stablizers on last (last as in after painting and decaling)  if the fit is good enough. I dont mind that wing seam if it's not that noticeable. It can make the building and painting process much more fun/enjoyable/relaxing to build and paint sub-assemblies and assemble later.  Aside: I visited my local hobby shop a few years ago and they had a few big display cases with die cast aircraft in them. I always stop by and look at them and would buy a few if they were not so expensive. Then I asked myself, why do I look at these? Why would I buy one? They are die cast. They have big seams and deep wide panel lines? Answer: They are built and painted very well and look great for what they are.  

3) You cannot unlearn what you have learned, but you don't always have to use everything you have learned on your build.

4) I don't enter my models in contests. Which is not to say I never would, it's just not why I build. I build for me and my enjoyment.  I did go to a contest recenlty however,  and brought my two little boys along since they like models. I actually went to see if I could buy some old kits for a good price, and I did, but I looked at the tables as well... Some judges were there and I overheard them commenting on some of the builds, nitpicking over some rediculous things. I muttered something under my breath and one of my boys asked me what was wrong. I told him "that guy can't see the forest because all the trees are in the way..." 

5) It's your model, you build it how you want -- when it's your model, it's your hobby.  

  Tcoat and Keavdog are spot on to my OP, that said I guess it really does have many open opinions which thankfully have been discussed here.

   I call most of my builds " turds", most are hi quality kits where I have put hours of effort into only to have someone point out my " deficencies" It kinda takes the fun out of the hobby.

    There are many FANTASTIC modelers here, I have huge respect for them, I love to admire their efforts to take a lump of unbuildable plactic and make it an exact replica of whatever......but that ain't for me. When that person provides positive advise I don't mind, however when presented with " you should have this, that, or the other."...well I try to remember....." Why so seroius"

   I hope more folks join in on this thread, I really like the discussions we have had here. AND I hope it has helped someone realize that even their worst build can be something to be proud of.

Tcoat

 

keavdog

I thought armornuts original intent that it would be a turd by your standards today if you built it as your 10 year old self.  Not necessarily the kit itself - just the fingerprint, nylon brush painted gluebomb you had so much slapping together while eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich and watching gilligans island or better yet, the 3 stooges.

 

 

 

 

That was my interpretation. Not the quality of the kit itself nor even that it is badly built. Just simply that the finished product would not be up to the builder's "normal" modern standards. The worst kit ever made can be built to look good and the best can look like trash if not done well so kit quality is not the Turd factor.

It get more complicated if you consider that many have radically different standards as to what is "good".

I am happy to build out of the box and give a nice paint job but some need to ensure that each bolt, rivet, wire is represented in exactly the right place for the particular vehicle they are doing then throw a horrid paint job at it. Neither method is right or wrong but one group may well think the others is a turd. 

Right, I did not get anything from the OP regarding kit quality or good kit vs bad kit or old kit vs new kit...  

keavdog

I thought armornuts original intent that it would be a turd by your standards today if you built it as your 10 year old self.  Not necessarily the kit itself - just the fingerprint, nylon brush painted gluebomb you had so much slapping together while eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich and watching gilligans island or better yet, the 3 stooges.

 

I thought armornuts original intent that it would be a turd by your standards today if you built it as your 10 year old self.  Not necessarily the kit itself - just the fingerprint, nylon brush painted gluebomb you had so much slapping together while eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich and watching gilligans island or better yet, the 3 stooges.

Gamera

Thanks! Guess I was a little confused, I assumed 'turd' meant a really poor quality kit. Greysnake said his staff car was really bad but I've built the 251 halftrack Joe did and found it though old still a pretty good kit.  

I think the definition is really quite wide and often depends on your point of view. Many older kits are turds because they were rough and crude, lacking any real details, just indescernable lumps here and there. Model kits were toys built by boys and played with in the sandbox.

Some kits are turds because they barely resemble the actual prototype. Something like Lindberg's T-80 Soviet tank is a very poor kit that is almost a cartoon of a Cold War modern Soviet MBT. It fails on multiple levels.

Tamiya makes some very well engineered kits, they are "box shakers" that go together easily. But as noted, they take some detail shortcuts and many have been bypassed by the more accurate Uber-kits by Meng, Takom, AFV Club, etc. Their M2/3 Bradley series is an easy build, but they glossed over so many details that the kit is very incomplete.

I'd consider the Tamiya JS-3 a turd from an accuracy standpoint as there is a lot wrong with it. But from a building standpoint it's a typical excellent late 1990's Tamiya kit that will go together with little to no problems.

Thanks! Guess I was a little confused, I assumed 'turd' meant a really poor quality kit. Greysnake said his staff car was really bad but I've built the 251 halftrack Joe did and found it though old still a pretty good kit. 

The IS-3 is a decent kit, not great nor terrible. So far what I've done with it I think is about average, not my best but not my worst. I wouldn't put her in this build in any case since I'm about 75% done. 

    Great question Gamera, my intent was for us modelers stricken with numerous forms of AMS, OCD, or any other mania that has afflicted us as we aged. The goal was to convey the fun we had when we had limited access to special tools, paint, or reference materials. This does not exclude anybody as some had fathers, mothers, uncles, etc that helped. This exercise is also NOT MEANT TO CRITISIZE exceptional modelers.

    No one is obligated to join, heck I never thought it would morph into this...glad it did, and I understand that you have other obligations.

    I think to answer your question about your " turd".....is it your very best work? Does it bring you joy working on it? I enjoyed seeing what you put out. If you answer yes to these questions then YOU are the only one who can claim it as a " turd".

That looks good Greysnake- kudos sir! 

Armournut: What would you define as a 'turd build' here? Seems like some of them are decent kits, just older with less detail and poorer fit. 

I don't want to join anymore GBs right now but I'm working on this Tamiya 1/35th IS-3. Pretty good kit but Tamiya was still leaving the sponsons open, you could look right though the kit. I blanked them off with sheet plastic. And I'm going to replace the tracks with white metal ones. Again, I don't want to enter but would this qualify as a 'turd'? 

As it should CTD, as it should

While I've truged through some pretty awful kits, I haven't really done a 'turd', but have built a couple of kits to just 'put something together', and not worry about details, paint, smooth seams, etc.  Getting tired of how many projects I had on the bench, only having time to put a dab of paint here, or sand this joint there, but getting nothing done, I thought it would be a good idea to actually finish something.  Don't worry about the extra details, paint, etc., just assemble a kit, like in the 'old days' but trying to make it the best OOB build I could.  I grabbed an old AMT 57 T-bird kit for that.  I had a couple in the stash I got from a dollar store, so figured I could 'sacrifice' one for the cause.

It was actually a pretty nice kit.  Considering it's age, it had a nice amount of detail and went together pretty well.  It sits proudly on my display shelf in it's own display box.  I look at that plain, unpainted kit and just smile from time-to-time.

It really was a joy to do.  

Real G

 

 

Tcoat

 

 

Real G

We coveted those MRC gatefold catalogs like gold back in the day!  They changed from time to time, so we traded them to be sure we had them all.  Lying in the grass during recess, we would dream of our next kit.

I think my dad let me use the gas mower when I turned 13 or so.  $3.50 per week to help dad in the yard on the weekends, collect the trash and wash the dishes throughout the week. It made every penny count, and took me at least 3 weeks or more to save up for a Tamiya kit.  But it made the getting sooooo much more satisfying, even though the kits I built turned into mostly turds.  

 

 

 

 

Not long ago I paid a pile of money on Ebay for some indiviudal pages from some of those old cataloges to frame as wall hangers!

 

 

 

 

Oh geez Tcoat, why didn't you just ask here on the forum?  Any spares I have would have been yours for free!

...um, yeah, I still have them.    But who throws anything away these days?  Right guys?  Guys?

 

LOL I wasn't here yet. And by "not long ago" I mean approx 5 years. That is no longer "long ago" I guess!

 Right G ...right....

Tcoat

 

 

Real G

We coveted those MRC gatefold catalogs like gold back in the day!  They changed from time to time, so we traded them to be sure we had them all.  Lying in the grass during recess, we would dream of our next kit.

I think my dad let me use the gas mower when I turned 13 or so.  $3.50 per week to help dad in the yard on the weekends, collect the trash and wash the dishes throughout the week. It made every penny count, and took me at least 3 weeks or more to save up for a Tamiya kit.  But it made the getting sooooo much more satisfying, even though the kits I built turned into mostly turds.  

 

 

 

 

Not long ago I paid a pile of money on Ebay for some indiviudal pages from some of those old cataloges to frame as wall hangers!

 

Oh geez Tcoat, why didn't you just ask here on the forum?  Any spares I have would have been yours for free!

...um, yeah, I still have them.    But who throws anything away these days?  Right guys?  Guys?

Real G

We coveted those MRC gatefold catalogs like gold back in the day!  They changed from time to time, so we traded them to be sure we had them all.  Lying in the grass during recess, we would dream of our next kit.

I think my dad let me use the gas mower when I turned 13 or so.  $3.50 per week to help dad in the yard on the weekends, collect the trash and wash the dishes throughout the week. It made every penny count, and took me at least 3 weeks or more to save up for a Tamiya kit.  But it made the getting sooooo much more satisfying, even though the kits I built turned into mostly turds.  

 

Not long ago I paid a pile of money on Ebay for some indiviudal pages from some of those old cataloges to frame as wall hangers!

We coveted those MRC gatefold catalogs like gold back in the day!  They changed from time to time, so we traded them to be sure we had them all.  Lying in the grass during recess, we would dream of our next kit.

I think my dad let me use the gas mower when I turned 13 or so.  $3.50 per week to help dad in the yard on the weekends, collect the trash and wash the dishes throughout the week. It made every penny count, and took me at least 3 weeks or more to save up for a Tamiya kit.  But it made the getting sooooo much more satisfying, even though the kits I built turned into mostly turds.  

  I remember those catalogs too, man I drooled over many kits pictured in them. Oddly enough I have most of them in my stash. Forge ahead good sir.

   Welcome aboard Greysnake, thanks for taking up the challenge. Keep it simple, use what you had access to as a young modeler, which leaves your options open....we have no idea how many lawns you mowed..... just remember to think like you did, and just have fun. Looking forward to your awesome " turd".

Tcoat

 

 

JoeSMG

Thank you Armornut and Gamera, I do like it, Of course at some point I'm definitely going to fill the cracks and add some swag! :) Knowing me though, it'll be 5yrs ta never before I get to it and then after I'll do the figures!

I did like the time limit aspect - otherwise i tend to keep putsing with things and they either take forever or i lose interest.

 

 

 

 

After this thread dies down a bit I may start an official "Build it like you are 8 years old" one. There would be very restrictive conditions and a time limit would be one of them. People may lose interest after this thread though. 

 

In that case I'll join up to. I have a Tamiya SAS Jeep that I'm not going to build otherwise.

I'll be the first to sign up - My stash will outlive me by many, many years otherwise.

JoeSMG

Thank you Armornut and Gamera, I do like it, Of course at some point I'm definitely going to fill the cracks and add some swag! :) Knowing me though, it'll be 5yrs ta never before I get to it and then after I'll do the figures!

I did like the time limit aspect - otherwise i tend to keep putsing with things and they either take forever or i lose interest.

 

After this thread dies down a bit I may start an official "Build it like you are 8 years old" one. There would be very restrictive conditions and a time limit would be one of them. People may lose interest after this thread though. 

Thank you Armornut and Gamera, I do like it, Of course at some point I'm definitely going to fill the cracks and add some swag! :) Knowing me though, it'll be 5yrs ta never before I get to it and then after I'll do the figures!

I did like the time limit aspect - otherwise i tend to keep putsing with things and they either take forever or i lose interest.

Edit: Forgot to mention - My rush to the finish did result in a near catastrophe! I initially attached the rear door hinges on backwards! (this after triple checking the instructions for just this issue…) Fortunately my impulsive nature didn't allow them to fully set before trying to attach them.

Tcoat

Well I do hope that G realized I was only ribbing. It is his Turd and he can do as he wants. There were no rules.

JoeSMG

 

Love this thread - finally a topic I excel at!

Thanks for the smack down TCOAT, need to keep the overachievers in line! Felt good to not feel guilty about not using filler. Looking forward to following the new arrivals.

 

Those are cool guys! The 251 came out great Joe! I built the same kit back when I had a full head of hair, or at least tried. I remember my sister's stupid braindead cat ate half of one of the sets of 'rubber band' tracks so I had to finish the thing the best I could. 

Greysnake and Real G, those are cool too, never built them though. 

I'm not sure if they would qualify as a 'turd' but I build almost everything straight from the box these days. I just want to get the darn thing built and really don't feel like adding a pile of PE or modifying the kit. 

GreySnake

I’ll build a kit from my childhood this Tamiya Gaz67B Field Car. I built this kit when I was ten years old.

 

 

I probably had access to more tools then others as my father also built models. I didn’t worry about seam lines at the time I just clipped parts of the sprue and sanded down the nubs with metal files. I do plan to airbrush the model as my father would airbrush my kits for me.  

 

Someplace in a box of assorted pieces of models from my childhood I have some random parts from that kit. It would have been one of the very last models I built in 72 or 73 as my interests turned more to real vehicles and girls. 

   Yessir, that be a mightyfine " turd"..well done Joe.

Love this thread - finally a topic I excel at!

Thanks for the smack down TCOAT, need to keep the overachievers in line! Felt good to not feel guilty about not using filler. Looking forward to following the new arrivals.

This was a fun quick build - though quick is relative, the Mrs wasn't crazy about my three day cram session.

On a serious note, I’m sorry to read of your health troubles Armornut, I wish you the best possible fortune in this struggle and am happy to see you in good spirits. Thank you for lighting the fire!

Ok - without further adieu: My Turd complete, presented for group inspection.

 Welcome to the challenge Greysnake, I guess it is officially an unofficial GB now. Mmmm how can I move entire thread to proper topic page??

Real G

Good to know you are OK Armornut, and that your DNA remains non-bovine!  We can all steer away from cow jokes now and stop milking the subject.  

I started on the Chieftain this past weekend, and wow, there are lots of what I call "part pucker", where the mold parting lines are heavy and have an annoying radius on the parts that need to be laboriously scraped away and filled.  It would seem that low injection pressure or insufficient cooling time while in the mold is the culprit.  Or maybe just old, worn molds.  It is a big step down from Tamiya's new-ish Hetzer, where everything lines up nicely and mold lines are fine and easily scraped off.

Ooh, motorization holes!  Gonna leave those.  

And the kit "rubber band" tracks are actually OK.  The only concern I have is painting the track pads and then having them flake afterwards.  The Takom track links are already loose in the bag, so only the pads need to be clipped off their runners.  Still on the fence about which way to go.

 

LOL Maybe I am not as forgiving as Nut but with the spirit of the "turd" build then the rubber band tracks are the thing. If the paint craks off them then so be it. The seams could be scraped but not filled and ejector pin marks get this one change to live. Nice call on the motor holes. 

My guess would be the seams are more due to worn out molds than anything. They have probably made a bazillion of these kits over the decades and the molds are just very tired. 

Good to know you are OK Armornut, and that your DNA remains non-bovine!  We can all steer away from cow jokes now and stop milking the subject.  

I started on the Chieftain this past weekend, and wow, there are lots of what I call "part pucker", where the mold parting lines are heavy and have an annoying radius on the parts that need to be laboriously scraped away and filled.  It would seem that low injection pressure or insufficient cooling time while in the mold is the culprit.  Or maybe just old, worn molds.  It is a big step down from Tamiya's new-ish Hetzer, where everything lines up nicely and mold lines are fine and easily scraped off.

Ooh, motorization holes!  Gonna leave those.  

And the kit "rubber band" tracks are actually OK.  The only concern I have is painting the track pads and then having them flake afterwards.  The Takom track links are already loose in the bag, so only the pads need to be clipped off their runners.  Still on the fence about which way to go.

   Nice " turds" jeaton01 thanks for sharing.

   Tcoat...'bout time I'm good for something LOL.

JoeSMG

As someone who has been building Turds all their life, I find this thread highly offensive!

That a group of elite modelers would find it fun or enjoyable to slum it for a bit as defacto "turd builders" boarders on cultural appropriation and should not be tolerated!

Of course I'm kidding - although my fist sentence is more accurate than I'd like. If this becomes a group build effort I'll gladly join it as my first gateway GB.

 

Here's one I built to these standards recently, only what was in the box, though I did fill seams and painted the whole thing.  I built many of these as a flea, and have more Monogram T-28's in the stash.  And a Monogram P-38 which is from the old days, built in 65 or so when the kit was new.  Still on the shelf today.  I have no shame!

    All righty then RealG, I'll be watching. Since you very easily could have hadd access to indy links, it will be left to your choice on your " turd". Sanity is overrated anyway LOL.

Here is my kit, Tamiya's venerable Chieftain Mk V.

I'm not 100% sure I'll use the aftermarket tracks, as I am still mentally recovering from assembling the M3 Stuart's indi-link.

About 90% done - less the figures.

Almost done in a weekend, just like high school - remember working all weekend on one and tearing myself away Monday morning to go to school...

 Now off to work! :)

cbaltrin

When I was a kid, my hobby tools were 1 xacto knife, 1 tube of glue, some testors nylong paint brushes and maybe 20 bottles or spray cans of testors and model master paint... Oh and a Paasche VL airbrush which I ran off my Dad's aircompressor,which did not even have a regulator, in the unheated Garage (In the winter, you had to poor hot water over the piston housing to warm up the oil in order to get it to start). 

Now I have six different xacto handles with various blades, about 300 bottles of pain, 4 air brushes [insert about 100 other tools here] and the list goes on  , so yea, it's pretty hard to revert to childhood building techniques.....

 

I had an off brand X-acto knife with one blade in it that was dull as heck when I got it with a broken tip. Then I found a set that included a little plastic case with a handful of odd blades, probably around 1980. I still have that set with the original blades. Some of the blade types were never used.

Only at the halfway point

Having all the issues i had as a kid on this, My sand paint was 95% dry - so just like in the day I'm adding thinner and getting the micro lumps... Oh well she'll be a fine looking turd at arms length! 

cbaltrin

 

 

Glamdring

When I was a kid, I would build strait from the box and forego any paint and sealer.  Times were so much simpler back then.  These days, these are called my shelf queens...

 

 

 

 

When I was a kid, my hobby tools were 1 xacto knife, 1 tube of glue, some testors nylong paint brushes and maybe 20 bottles or spray cans of testors and model master paint... Oh and a Paasche VL airbrush which I ran off my Dad's aircompressor,which did not even have a regulator, in the unheated Garage (In the winter, you had to poor hot water over the piston housing to warm up the oil in order to get it to start). 

Now I have six different xacto handles with various blades, about 300 bottles of pain, 4 air brushes [insert about 100 other tools here] and the list goes on  , so yea, it's pretty hard to revert to childhood building techniques.....

 

Ain't that the truth!   

Glamdring

When I was a kid, I would build strait from the box and forego any paint and sealer.  Times were so much simpler back then.  These days, these are called my shelf queens...

 

When I was a kid, my hobby tools were 1 xacto knife, 1 tube of glue, some testors nylong paint brushes and maybe 20 bottles or spray cans of testors and model master paint... Oh and a Paasche VL airbrush which I ran off my Dad's aircompressor,which did not even have a regulator, in the unheated Garage (In the winter, you had to poor hot water over the piston housing to warm up the oil in order to get it to start). 

Now I have six different xacto handles with various blades, about 300 bottles of pain, 4 air brushes [insert about 100 other tools here] and the list goes on  , so yea, it's pretty hard to revert to childhood building techniques.....

When I was a kid, I would build strait from the box and forego any paint and sealer.  Times were so much simpler back then.  These days, these are called my shelf queens...

cbaltrin

This has been an interesting thread. I have tried this before without much success. It's hard to build like a 14 year old when you have the brain of a 50 year old. Imagination and ignorance of many things at that age filled lots of gaps back then that can no longe be filled so easily...

 

I do build a model now and again where I finish and paint the wings and fuselage separately, then glue them together, if the fit is good enough... makes for a much more relaxing build at times.  And then you have the Monogram B-17G I am working on the Git-R-Done GB... I painted and decaled the fuselage halves before stuffing in the interior and joining them--that's something I did as a kid... I think that is about it though. Somtimes I can leave the fuelage seams alone but those wing edges just have to be sanded...

cbaltrin

...

It's hard to build like a 14 year old when you have the brain of a 50 year old. Imagination and ignorance of many things at that age filled lots of gaps back then that can no longe be filled so easily...

 

Another big change is I now read the instructions before I start! I also feel the need to paint a lot of stuff before assembly.

stikpusher

 

 

Rob Gronovius

And every time a new and improved kit is released, the older, highly regarded kit, hits the secondary market at a discount. Everyone is selling off their great kit because another company is putting out an even better one! 

 

 

 

Yes indeed! That method has helped me fill a few gaps in the collection/stash...

 

Roger that

This has been an interesting thread. I have tried this before without much success. It's hard to build like a 14 year old when you have the brain of a 50 year old. Imagination and ignorance of many things at that age filled lots of gaps back then that can no longe be filled so easily...

Ooohhhh yyyyeeeeaaa

armornut

...

    Joe that Tetsors is still good?? WOW that has some staying power LOL.

 

  Awesome guys...thanks. If aftermarket was in the box now.......what say Uncle Bob didn't stick it in there when you were ten? 

    Joe that Tetsors is still good?? WOW that has some staying power LOL.

I don't like clickbait or stringing people along.  I also took a peek into the box (why was it so heavy?), and found a set of Takom aftermarket tracks.

So the kit will be Tamiya's Chieftain Mk V with some AM tracks.  Well, they WERE in the box, and the tracks would go to waste since I have no other Chieftains.    At least there was no PE set.

Pulled from stash.

Ooh Ooh that smell!

Real G

Okay, I am compelled to show my support for Armornut.  I will build a model from my childhood.  Starting today.  No aftermarket.  No mods.  OOTB.  I'm a man of my wuuuuuurrrrrrrrd.

Pics to follow.

 

Okay, I am compelled to show my support for Armornut.  I will build a model from my childhood.  Starting today.  No aftermarket.  No mods.  OOTB.  I'm a man of my wuuuuuurrrrrrrrd.

Pics to follow.

Rob Gronovius

And every time a new and improved kit is released, the older, highly regarded kit, hits the secondary market at a discount. Everyone is selling off their great kit because another company is putting out an even better one! 

Yes indeed! That method has helped me fill a few gaps in the collection/stash...

Tcoat

https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/general_discussion/f/50/p/2213276/reply.aspx

 

OH COME ON

I enjoy building older kits, but I truly appreciate the elite modelers. It is their skills and dedication to the hobby that required the model making companies to "up their game" and stop giving us subpar kits to work with. Their scratchbuilding skills become masters for resin and photo etched upgrades as well as photographic aids to assist in detailing our own kits.

And every time a new and improved kit is released, the older, highly regarded kit, hits the secondary market at a discount. Everyone is selling off their great kit because another company is putting out an even better one!

Eaglecash867

wpwar11

 Funny thing happened when I started construction.  I just couldn't bring myself to put in a less than 100% effort.  I think the fun part for me is trying new techniques and testing my skills.  There has been a handful of times I finish a build and been really proud of the result.  If I don't try my best I rob myself from that joy.

 

 

THIS!  

Had exactly the same thing happen on the Revell 1/72 Space Shuttle I bought.  Everything I looked at on it made me immediately start brainstorming "How can I make this better?"

Yes, I get stuck in this rut called Advanced Modeler's Syndrome or AMS. In 2001, when I moved from Fort Dix, New Jersey to Fort Devens, Massachusetts, a friend I had met bought me a parts kit of the old Renwal M50 Ontos kit.

That kit was one the most coveted kit of my childhood. My friend's big brother had one hanging from his ceiling in his bedroom in a parachute style airborne drop. It was the coolest thing, I imagined the crew could shoot six enemy tanks from the sky before it every landed! A child's imagination is a true wonder.

I built the Revell reissue in 1982-83 as a kid in college. The kit was fairly crude and clunky with lots of movable parts. It spent about 20 years on my old bedroom dresser getting vacuumed every so often by my mom. Many detail pieces had been vacuumed up or broken off in the years.

When my mom was getting ready to sell the house and downsize, I rescued the kit along with my built, partially built and unbuilt kits of my youth.

I went to a local swap meet with this fellow soldier/modeler in Runnemede, New Jersey, saw the kit and was going to buy it. He wanted to buy it for me as a farewell gift.

It contained all the necessary parts to restore my kit and then some. But I got stuck trying to make the kit better. Replace all the old recoilless gun tubes with more accurate metal tubing, etc.

I never got past trying to make this kit into something it was never going to be. And then, when I was at Fort Knox, the Armor museum had restored one to a running status. That made it even worse; having access to a life sized actual vehicle.

About the time I had a lot of information on the kit, Academy released a new tooled version. Today, that old dog sits in a small cardboard box awaiting the day I decide to finish it semi-out-of-box.

Maybe that kit will be my "turd"? It's been cooking for over 20 years and the base kit has been in my possession for around 40 years.

  Thanks for the heart attack JoeSMG,  I was concerned that my thread might be taken that way.

    Thank you for understanding that it WAS NOT my intent. An "elite" modeler I am not I intended it to be more of a walk down memory lane when we were less worried about details, workmanship, and more about bombing coffee tables or charging across moms freshly vacuumed carpet.

      For the record I call all my builds " turds" some are really good....others.....not so much , but the fact is I'm proud, as should every builder, of those turds. That is one of the things that make this community great.....we get it.

     I am glad things are brought forth so I can try to explain the title. Now WHERE IS THE DEFIBRELATER??

     For information it is not my intent to proctor a group build...I still haven't made good on my efforts to post pix....IF it develops into that then THANK YOU if not NO WORRIES. I want EVERYONE to simply think about the fun this hobby has to offer at all levels of skill, financial stability, access to info, etc. and not be ashamed of their best efforts.

As someone who has been building Turds all their life, I find this thread highly offensive!

That a group of elite modelers would find it fun or enjoyable to slum it for a bit as defacto "turd builders" boarders on cultural appropriation and should not be tolerated!

Of course I'm kidding - although my fist sentence is more accurate than I'd like. If this becomes a group build effort I'll gladly join it as my first gateway GB.

Tcoat

[URL]https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/general_discussion/f/50/p/2213276/reply.aspx[URL]

 

OH COME ON

 

You forgot to put the / before the second URL.  

[URL]https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/general_discussion/f/50/p/2213276/reply.aspx[URL]

OH COME ON

wpwar11

 Funny thing happened when I started construction.  I just couldn't bring myself to put in a less than 100% effort.  I think the fun part for me is trying new techniques and testing my skills.  There has been a handful of times I finish a build and been really proud of the result.  If I don't try my best I rob myself from that joy.

THIS!  

Had exactly the same thing happen on the Revell 1/72 Space Shuttle I bought.  Everything I looked at on it made me immediately start brainstorming "How can I make this better?"

Tcoat

https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/191997.aspx   WHY OH WHY do my links never work on here? Anybody?

The best way to get something to post as a link is to just copy and paste the text of the web address into your replies, and then manually add the tags before and after, as you can see in the screenshot.

https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/191997.aspx

Tcoat

  

How? No matter what I try it does not show as a link. I am baffled!

 

"No. Try not. Do or do not. There is no try."

Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980) - Frank Oz as Yoda - IMDb

Rob Gronovius

 

http:/cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/191997.aspx" alt="" />http:/cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/191997.aspx" target="">http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/191997.aspx

 

How? No matter what I try it does not show as a link. I am baffled!

wpwar11

Recently a guy in the club gave away several old models he just didn't want anymore.  I grabbed a really old Airfix 1/72 F86.  The thing has less than 40 parts.  Maybe less than 30.  My intention was just build it up in a day not caring about the finish so much.  Maybe it will just be a paint mule.  Funny thing happened when I started construction.  I just couldn't bring myself to put in a less than 100% effort.  I think the fun part for me is trying new techniques and testing my skills.  There has been a handful of times I finish a build and been really proud of the result.  If I don't try my best I rob myself from that joy.

 

But keeping a build simple does not equate to putting in less than 100% effort. Even those old Airfix can be made into a nice looking model right out of the box. It can actually take more techniques and skill to pull it off than filling it with resin and photoetch. Sure they may have a park bench seat, bare cockpit, trench like panel lines and "inaccurate" details but some paint and weathering can perform miracles. 

Recently a guy in the club gave away several old models he just didn't want anymore.  I grabbed a really old Airfix 1/72 F86.  The thing has less than 40 parts.  Maybe less than 30.  My intention was just build it up in a day not caring about the finish so much.  Maybe it will just be a paint mule.  Funny thing happened when I started construction.  I just couldn't bring myself to put in a less than 100% effort.  I think the fun part for me is trying new techniques and testing my skills.  There has been a handful of times I finish a build and been really proud of the result.  If I don't try my best I rob myself from that joy.

armornut

   Very good point Rob, another part of the thought that slipped my mind. I also have a couple of nostalgia Star Wars kits in the stash, looking forward to finishing them up.

 

I guess I consider kits to be turds that really have been bypassed by newer releases. Tamiya's original M113 or M3 Staurt are quite dated, but still assemble well and are fun to build, as long as you don't try to get down into the weeds and bring them up to modern standards.

These are the kits that really don't have resale value beyond nostalgia and have clunky details, iffy looking tracks with detail on one side, etc. Lots of old Trumpeter kits from 1999-2000 fall into this category. We often joke that they are not worth the glue and paint used to build them.

One of my friends traveled to Russia to meet a woman (fortunately he came back empty handed). He brought back an old Zvezda T-60 Soviet light tank kit. I had obtained one in 1990 when the Berlin Wall came down. It was/is a horrible kit. It was an amazing coincidence that he returned with the same horrible kit.

I didn't have the heart to tell him it wasn't worth the price of glue. I still have the kit though.

And on the Star Wars front, the long awaited Return of the Jedi Y-Wing fighter was released by MPC in 1984. Compared to the Fine Molds kits of the early 2000s and the Revell of Germany one, it is crap, but it still is a great piece of nostalgia.

   Very good point Rob, another part of the thought that slipped my mind. I also have a couple of nostalgia Star Wars kits in the stash, looking forward to finishing them up.

armornut

       I guess a little more clarification of my meaning of " turd" is in order. In my mind I was comparing my builds today to the builds I have done as a young modeler, kit quality or manufacturer really isn't important, or I didn't consider it. My bad. 

I understood your meaning, and take no offense. I enjoy buying and building some of those nostalgic builds that were reissued. Yes, those kits were much simpler and can really be considered turds compared to even lesser models created today in terms of details, engineering, fit, accuracy, etc.

For instance, when I was a kid and star wars was the hottest movie in theaters, MPC released a handful of kits, and I built them all including R2-D2, C3PO, Luke's X-Wing and Darth Vader's TIE Fighter.

Even in 1977, I recognized that the kits were not the greatest of quality, but I loved building them out of box and hand painting the parts of the kits not molded in the right colors. They look like crap compared to my building skills today.

You can walk into Hobby Lobby today, as long as it's a 40% off kits week, and buy anyone of those kits made by Bandai and they are some of the highest quality kits you can find.

So, a kid armed with 1977's Star Wars kits and a kid with 2020s Star Wars kits are going to have very different results with the same skill level and tools.

http:/cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/191997.aspx" alt="" />http:/cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/191997.aspx" target="">http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/191997.aspx

   Wish I could help Tcoat however I'm still working interweb bugs to pist pix.

      I guess a little more clarification of my meaning of " turd" is in order. In my mind I was comparing my builds today to the builds I have done as a young modeler, kit quality or manufacturer really isn't important, or I didn't consider it. My bad. 

     So since pictures are worth 1000 words PLEASE look at Tcoats new thread of a 3.7 Flak and truck from Tamiya....that was the idea I was trying to convey. 

     Does this change anybodys opinion??  BTW to those who have replied thanks, it helps me know that what and how I do it is ok.

And it begins

https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/191997.aspx

WHY OH WHY do my links never work on here? Anybody?

keavdog

I think your uboat counts Tony!

 

Within the past decade, I've gone back to this method of building. While I don't select a "turd", I have gone back to simpler kits without all the bells and whistles with minimal painting and detailing.

It used to be necessary to get maybe not the "best" kit, but to build a very high quality kit, especially for a subject I cared about. But if it was a subject I was mildly interested in, say a WW2 German armor kit, I was okay with just picking a decent kit or one I had in my stash for ages.

Now, this is often my primary method of building a kit.

Once upon a time, before even thinking about buiding the kit I would obtain the photoetch set, aluminum barrel and read reviews of the kit. Today, I crack it open, prep the parts and start gluing.

Well, You got my attention! If you want to go there, Atlantis has just the thing, A New old release.The 1958 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham first released by Revell back in the day. It's marginally better, a different color, But it is still 1958 Revell in all it's glorious ill fitting parts. Better than it used to be. But still full of what stymied us then.

Mmmmmmmmm?

I think your uboat counts Tony!

armornut

     

     My idea is to challenge my fellow modelers to one day just slap a model together, be damned seams, fit, and alignment....let the 10yr old part rule. Not all builds, not the 200.00 Trumpeter kit, or that rare find from your past...unless ya want to... just remember the hour or so of FUN we had.

 

Challenge acceppted

Unstarted just bought last week.

Tojo72

For me it's not fun to struggle with a kit.I will fill seams and adjust fit,but don't want to fight a kit,ill pay more money for a quality kit,When its not fun then is not a hobby,so why am I doing it.

Just my  

Exactly. 

   There in lies the " challenge " Eagle, not judging or saying what ya do is wrong. Keavdog I don't compete either, however I do want to put stuff on the table. Win Whoray, Lose Oh well it's a hobby.

    I get so tied up on what other people say I should do that my bench languishes in dust. If I could just " slap something together" life would be more fun.

     As stated I do enjoy the skills I have developed, researching a subject, hiding my signature fingerprint in a less conspicious place.....oh the stink of old Testors plastic cement.

     Hope more people chime in.

I have tried so many times to say "Its just a model, just build this one and not worry so much about how it looks", but I just haven't been able to do it.

   To be honest, I'm not so sure I could build to the standard I set forth in my OP.  I guess things get finer with age LOL. Interesting replies so far....

stikpusher

 

Ha ha ha, life imitates art!  Please see Tony Greenland's "Armor Modeling Masterclass", where you can marvel at Tamiya's 1/35 Sturmtiger figure.  He has teeth and fingernail cuticle painted on.  

A friend who mostly works in 1/72 usually paints moustaches and makes sunglasses for his pilots.  

I really need to dial it back.  If I built a model from my cherished childhood, say Monogram's SBD Dauntless, I'd have to at least fill all the seams and drill out the dive brakes.  I would leave the operating features intact though.  Dive bombing the living room was just too much fun.  

But the SBD was no turd back in its day; it was the cat's meow to a 5th grade kid.  So was Monogram's Hellcat, another marvel with moving parts that worked well and provided hours of enjoyment after the build.

Best bet to do that is the old Tamiya Armor kits. Fit really is excellent and they look good when painted and weathered with minimal fuss .

For me it's not fun to struggle with a kit.I will fill seams and adjust fit,but don't want to fight a kit,ill pay more money for a quality kit,When its not fun then is not a hobby,so why am I doing it.

Just my