Thanks Aggieman, glad you took the time to reflect, and hopefully it brought some joy.

    Your post optimizes the hard part of my challenge. As adults most of us have disposable income and access to a plethora of material for research. Most of us find this to be " the best part of the hobby", I agree, I love snooping around old pictures or scouring the web for that perfect reference photo, BUT to me it adds stress....I am not a skilled scratchbuilder, even as an adult PE is EXPENSIVE, Not to mention superglueing my fingers together. 

    Also as an adult, the expectations from others provides more stress. Face it we all have one of those folks hiding in the back. Some can ignore and forge ahead, others stagnate, torn between fufilling someone elses vision and just building to be happy.

      I'm guilty of both.....however I try hard to let the builder do as they please. In actuallity short of a contest very few people outside of our hobby see our work, and unless they are interested heavily in the subjects they will never know the intracies.

   Have I taken my own "challenge"? Not recently, but I have an old Trumpeter T-55 on the shelf that might just hit the spot.

armornut

     So I have been mulling this around for a bit, and by no means meant to insult anybody who chooses to accurately portray objects in miniature.

     The question was posed by another member....." Why ..so....seroius?" Good question. We ALL strive for that "perfect" model, all seams filled, perfect canopies, all road wheels or wheels in general on the ground. Yea we all do it.

     Think back to when we were kids...that tube of orange Testors, a couple bottles of Testors enamel, the synthetic brush from your water color set ya got last Christmas, and of course " THE KIT".....OH that beautiful boxart showing an exciting scene and our imagination running wild with the " masterpiece" we were about to create.

      Now we have grown and returned to the hobby, the "GOLDEN AGE"  so to speak. Most of us chase PE, aftermarket upgrades, and rare grainy black and white photos of a one off mod to build our " KIT". What hapoened? Those of us who still have some hair pull out from the roots when we smudge the paint, forget a seam, god forbid a fingerprint on the glass. Hobby still fun? Heck yea but " WHY SO SERIOUS?"

     My idea is to challenge my fellow modelers to one day just slap a model together, be damned seams, fit, and alignment....let the 10yr old part rule. Not all builds, not the 200.00 Trumpeter kit, or that rare find from your past...unless ya want to... just remember the hour or so of FUN we had.

    So to end this long winded post if nothing else just give it a thought. I'd bet it takes as much skill now to produce a glue bomb now as it did to strive for that " perfect" build did then.

    Interested in everyones thoughts.

 

Now this is a good topic for discussion.  

When I was a kid, I'm pretty sure the concept of perfection just was not something I really understood, beyond any Biblical references of the one perfect man.  Back then, when I managed to get a new kit, I'd typically have it built and ready for action before the end of the day.  Kits were far cheaper those days (on a lesser economy where people didn't typically make the kind of money they do these days), and mistakes I'm sure were common but nothing stood out to my young eyes.

When I returned to the hobby in the mid 90s and built that first kit, I did it just as I used to as a kid.  And I literally recall thinking, airplanes don't have that seam line running down the middle of the fuselage.  This is an obvious detail that went right over my head as a youngster.  When I restarted the hobby, I did so as an adult with adult wages and abilities.  I also did so at the onset of the internet, so unlike the 70s where my only "research" would have been possibly looking at photographs in aviation books my parents had, or watching WWII movies like Midway or 633 Squadron, now I can literally find hundreds of web pages featuring images of actual subjects that I am interested in building.

As an adult, I continue to maintain that no one currently living is perfect.  I embody a delivery excellence attitude both in my professional career and in my modeling hobby. Do I always deliver excellence?  Nope.  But I do feel like I do good work by and large in both arenas.  My career work habits follow me to my workbench.  I focus a lot on details, and I do strive to do things as well as I can, but there are times when I simply cannot find photographic evidence of how something really looked, and it is in those times where I have to get it to a point where it looks "right" or "good enough" and move on.

Still, I have had some kits where I just wanted to get something done.  These tend to come up after a long, involved build.  It can be really nice and fun to just sit down and build a plane with little worry about how it ultimately turns out, at least beyond the point of "good enough".

  Well said Tcoat. Love the anycronym.

armornut

     One persons " turd" is someones "diamond". What I might consider a " turd" that I have entered might just be the top placing kit on the table. Like wise my best kit could very well be seen as a " turd" by the top modeler at the event.

Yes, exactly. I don't build WW2 German armor and I don't need to have the best version of the kit on the market. So, a Tiger that's a turd to an expert is a high quality kit to me because I don't care if angles are off or details are inaccurate, just that it builds well and looks like a Tiger when it's complete.

And you may give a kit your healf-hearted try and it wins a contest. I could do my very best on the same kit and it's not as good as yours and doesn't place in the same contest.

In 1st, 2nd, 3rd contests, if there are only three kits in a category, everyone gets an award. Or if all the kits are "turds", the top three turds get 1/2/3.

Most/many of the 1/2/3 contests don't allow "sweeps". That is when one modeler enters multiple kits into that category and wins 1st, 2nd and 3rd place themselves. This is common in aircraft categories where the builders are often prolific and might enter many planes of the same category (i.e. WW2 single seat fighters).

But in a Gold, Silver, Bronze contest, only those kits that meet a certain standard get awarded. There could be no golds, one silver and five bronze in any particular category.

You feel you kit was really good if you get gold/silver/bronze as opposed to the "best of the turds" that were entered.

As has been said many times throughout this thread the one and only person that can determine if a kit is a turd is the builder. Be it the top of the line, most modern, 3,000 piece HK models 1/32 bomber or a 70 year old Aurora Warhawk with 6 parts including the stand if the modler is happy with the results it is in no way a turd. It has nothing to do with what the kit is like, what was used or how somebody else would build it.

Totaly

Unaccpetable

Results

to 

Desired.

TURD 

  I am thankful that I was not misunderstood.

  I thought about Ben ( Drums) and Jarrod after my post. I think it is AWESOME that Jarrod loves building with his dad and is proud of his accomplishments. If Ben and Jarrod place it is because of the skill in building and not a just "because award".  Unfortunately my opinion  the just "because awards" take away from the wins earned by other contestents. If it is worthy ABSOLUTELY it deserves recognition.

     That said it does not give permission to slam someone simply by the quality of the build. Take it as an opportunity to help them improve.

     One persons " turd" is someones "diamond". What I might consider a " turd" that I have entered might just be the top placing kit on the table. Like wise my best kit could very well be seen as a " turd" by the top modeler at the event.

Great Story TB!

armornut

   I also agree that no one should be turned away. I hope that was understood. Perhaps my skin was alittle this morning.

   I also agree that no one should be turned away. I hope that was understood. Perhaps my skin was alittle this morning.

TB,

That story rocked!  And it's great that you put on the superhero cape and helped that kid.    You are one of the FSM "Good Guys".  Bravo.

I on the other hand, focus on the darker side.  To paraphrase an old Klingon saying "Revenge is a dish best served on the contest table!"

And cold.  It has to be served cold.  Klingon table manners and all that.  If it's hot, the Gah kind of gets all woozy and stops moving. 

But seriously, no one should be turned away at a contest.  I once saw a guy show up at a contest where he looked around at the competition, then turned around and left with his model.  My heart kind of sank.

armornut

   That is a great story TB. Crushing someone openly at a contest is a bad thing, worse yet doing it from behind the keyboard. It is VERY hard to tell what someones condition is not being able to see or hear them. We SHOULD BE KIND until proven we don't have to be.

That type of elitist attitude stinks in all circles. I've never seen someone's kit turned away at a show I've been in, but I assume it happens.

I have overheard modelers talking about this entry used Brand X photoetch and they should have used Brand Y. I know Brand X is cheaper and easier to obtain than Brand Y, which is superior, but sometimes you get what you can get.

I remember Al Lafleche pointing out to me someone in one of his shows put a pre-made diecast halftrack in as an entry. That was odd because they are not very well done have a pre-manufactured look that is easy to spot.

They were also sold at the show by some vendors, so he wasn't fooling anyone.

   That is a great story TB. Crushing someone openly at a contest is a bad thing, worse yet doing it from behind the keyboard. It is VERY hard to tell what someones condition is not being able to see or hear them. We SHOULD BE KIND until proven we don't have to be.

       I also think it is fantastic that special needs individuals enter their work, HOWEVER placing an award on the entry "because" is wrong. Judge the model not the builder. While there is no harm in allowing someone to " win" there is a chance that it could develop into larger issues down the road.....life lessons need to be learned.

    Hopefully people see the point of this thread....WE are the only ones who should be allowed to call our models " turds" . I do not have to like what someone else has put out but if that us their best work and they are proud if it GREAT!! IF they WANT to improve then by all means lend a hand. IF they just want to "play" so be it..as stated until you REALLY get to know them save the harsh judgements for a more approperiate time.

    As a short side bar TB Iwould be really happy to bump into ya at the NATS say "HI" shake your hand and maybe uf we hit it off enjoy a lunch to talk. You are a well of knowledge and from what I have read throughout the years a down right GOOD MAN. It would be an honor to shake yer hand.

    So....we have a couple of " turd builders" hanging in the wings......care to let us in on your projects? If I had faster internet service I would regail you folks with more " turds" than you could flush.

Uh Oh!

     What are the judges gonna say abouy that? What got me turned off happened many, many years ago. In the original Club in Jacksonville, Ar, The C.A.M.S. always had a monthly show at Jack"s Hobby Shop(Jack Elliot was our main Sponsor!). We had our biggest show just Before getting our I.P.M.S. Charter. One Modeler was refused entry because they thought his model Wouldn't be worthy of showing.!! he walked outside and sat by the side of the building, reduced to tears. Trying to crush the model in his bare hands! I stopped him!

      I sat down beside him and asked what happened(I was president at the time and hadn't been told about this entry judges Faux pas!) When he told me I was furious! then I thought "there's more" Turns out he was somewhat  Emotional Special Needs. They hadn't dealt with that much yet! Why? He had been bullied and beaten many times because his DAD was a Viet Nam vet(A Baby Killer) as he was told that it's too bad he just barely survived his Helo Crash and didn't deserve to! Couldn't even talk to his son anymore because of his injuries!

       It destroyed the kid emotionally. He was told to build models as Therapy and mom was told that way he had more control over his young world!So he thought this model was worthy. Luckily he hadn't destroyed it yet. I saw it and made my comments and thought that was it. His Mom called me a few days later and thanked me for spending time with him. I took him under my wing and some time later he got his revenge. He took out cars and Armor with straight through wins!

       His Dad's eyes would light up when I would come over and help him work on the real car he patteerned that model on. A 56 Chevy with no windows or interior Just barely ran and didn't  have one straight panel to save it's life. And that's exactly what the model looked like! he won a trophy at the next summer's car show in L.R. and brought the trophy and salvaged model to one of our meetings. It was with great pleasure that I saw our judgeing panel eat crow!

       Since that day I have only competed one other time and had to prove the worthiness of my class win. Why? My ship although it looked it, was NOT Plastic, it was paper! And my first full use of P.E. and other stuff! I retained my plaque but vowed never to compete again. Instead I would Judge and Counsel those who asked why? Besides I have more fun doing that. And counseling a modeler is more fun than I ever dreamed!

Teenage Modeler

I mean, I don't have any "turd" kits in my stash right now. They're all either big kits or really intricate kits (P47 Tamiya or my 1/48 Revell Tomcat) so I don't think I am able to really make a turd kit if they're not meant to be turd kits. Who knows, maybe I'll stumble to this discussion again with a turd kit. This was a really nice topic though, and it shows how scale modelling can be fun for anyone, even when not going really serious about it. 

Turd kits can be high quality kits built to a more basic standard. Of course, if you got a high dollar kit, you'd probably not want to build it simply. Conversely, you can have an ancient, simple kit (a real turd) and put graduate level skills, aftermarket, scratch building, etc. and make it into a show stopper.

   Well TM, the name of the game is enjoyment. If you feel that you are NOT skilled enough to truly build a turd then perhaps we have something to learn from you.. This thread will be around as long as there is interest...and if it happens to fall into the electronic abyss, maybe you could start a new one. Model on Garth

armornut

  Your last sentence TM is the basic  premiss of this thread. It was a way to try to help my fellow modellers return to a simpler time where the " fun" was simply slapping a kit together and zooming off to bomb the coffee table. It has morphed into thus AWESOME thread that has been fun, informative, and even a bit competative.

    Thanks for jumping in, now that you are kinda up to speed TM, are you up to the challenge to build a " turd"??. Check out first post or ask it something isn't clear.

 

I mean, I don't have any "turd" kits in my stash right now. They're all either big kits or really intricate kits (P47 Tamiya or my 1/48 Revell Tomcat) so I don't think I am able to really make a turd kit if they're not meant to be turd kits. Who knows, maybe I'll stumble to this discussion again with a turd kit. This was a really nice topic though, and it shows how scale modelling can be fun for anyone, even when not going really serious about it.

Lol, gonna say ya aged well but.....

armornut

   You had DINOSAURS Real G??? Daaaanng.

 

PLASTIC dinosaurs, Armornut.  Dang, I'm not THAT old!  

   You had DINOSAURS Real G??? Daaaanng.

Armornut,

I was not allowed to bomb our coffee table.  Mom designated the carpet as the only sanctioned bombing range in the house.  Or I had to take it outside.  But that's where I played with my dinosaurs!  

Teenage Modeler

Before I got really in depth with scale models, I used to build a bunch of Gunpla models. One think that really sets it apart from other models it its playability, and the fact that you don't have to paint the robot for it to look good. You can pose it any way you want, and that you can see your own prized Gundam figure in the actual anime, seeing it do crazy stunts and high-speed fights in space.

Originally, model kits were assembled toys with moving parts and "molded in color" so there was no need to paint the majority of the kit. Even Matchbox did their kits in vivid colors that reduced the need to paint.

If you take a look at the older Renwal armor kits, Aurora and Lindberg kits, they had operating features. The Lindberg M46 Patton tank was motorized and the gun tube rotated back and forth as it crawled across the sandbox. Yeah, we played with these kits in the sandbox and there were many casualties in the "Great BB Gun Wars" many of us had.

I started building kits like the Gunpla when I was in college and Revell started reboxing Japanese model kits under the Robotech line. They were awesome and I still have many of my kits from the 1980s along with some nostalgia purchases from eBay the last decade or so.

  Your last sentence TM is the basic  premiss of this thread. It was a way to try to help my fellow modellers return to a simpler time where the " fun" was simply slapping a kit together and zooming off to bomb the coffee table. It has morphed into thus AWESOME thread that has been fun, informative, and even a bit competative.

    Thanks for jumping in, now that you are kinda up to speed TM, are you up to the challenge to build a " turd"??. Check out first post or ask it something isn't clear.

I went the opposite way - I was an airplane/armor guy back in high school, but got into Gunpla in college. Perfect timing for me, as I had an income by then.  And the kits were cheap too!  I was already using an airbrush and putty, so no turd Gunpla for me.

Actually, early 1980s anime kits were mostly terrible.    The first gen Gunpla were kinda dumpy and posed poorly.  The MSV kits that followed were a step up, but it took another decade until the HG and MG kits arrived.

Before I got really in depth with scale models, I used to build a bunch of Gunpla models. One think that really sets it apart from other models it its playability, and the fact that you don't have to paint the robot for it to look good. You can pose it any way you want, and that you can see your own prized Gundam figure in the actual anime, seeing it do crazy stunts and high-speed fights in space.

That was the time around my elementary school years, where I didn't have to worry about buying paint, or even cement, because it was all so simple to assemble. It made was one of the things that really gotten me into building scale models in the first place. I don't really build Gunpla anymore because I lost track of all the new Gunpla releases and such, as well as some fitment issues. Fixing it all can make it tedious, and can oppose to your original intent. But, it was really fun while it lasted. 

armornut

    Perhaps the system is a bit flawed, it really would make more sense for someone who knows armor to judge armor since it appears that accuracy is used in the criteria more so than the techniques used.

They rely on volunteers "off the street" as well as members of nearby clubs to assist in judging.

That means, you get who you get to judge. If the club leans towards a particular genre, say armor, the majority of their expertise lies in armor modeling and the club might have only one or two aircraft builders and no car builders or ship builders.

My local club is a military modeler club with armor being the main focus, but there are a few aircraft modelers and at least one highly rated airliner modeler (former USAF pilot, retired UPS pilot).

But the show is going to have the garden variety categories, cars, trucks, tanks, warplanes, ships, figures, sci-fi, etc. Someone has to judge those categories. You might be an armor modeler, but you have to judge all the categories that are there.

And some categories are so vast and popular that they have to split them into sub-categories like WW2 Armor, Open Topped Armor, Modern Armor, 1/72-1/48 Armor, or WW2 single seat fighters, multiple engined aircraft, etc.

That's why I was mentioning to Tcoat that the clubs will take the random guy off the street to help judge.

  My apologies for not giving props for your win Tcoat, how rude of me.

    Gamera, your post is part of the reason for this thread. I, like you, would never know about hubcaps on a car, and though I worked on aircraft, I am by no means an " expert". I primarily build armor also. Thinking about it armor is judged by people who know next to nothing about the subject....but they CAN tell you about and often enter thingies with hubcaps.

    Perhaps the system is a bit flawed, it really would make more sense for someone who knows armor to judge armor since it appears that accuracy is used in the criteria more so than the techniques used. I know that a super shiny color coat on a car is important...mostly..as well as it requires ALOT of work to achive it. However I have NEVER heard a judge say " that 2005 Daytona R/T Charger was never produced in Mary Kay pink that build shouldn't even be looked at" yet put the wrong unit designater on a piece of WWII German armor and holy smokes that kit is garbage.

    Anyway I'll still enter my " turds" and enjoy just being around fellow glue sniffers.

Hey Tcoat congrads on your win! 

And yeah contests are a little strange, I don't enter any except our own to support the club and rarely ever win anything. 

One thing you have to remember is that people generally don't judge subjects they know anything about. Say you're an armour modeler, well that's a subject you do know something about, but generally you'll have a couple of armour models in that catagory- so you're disqualified from judging it.

As a guy who builds mostly armour and aircraft the few times I've judged it's been auto and ship models- both subjects that I really know nothing about. So if someone puts hubcaps from a 2023 Ford Mustang on a 1959 Dodge I really would have no idea. So you're stressed to judge the model on assembly and painting rather than anything else.

As to the weird reasons you got knocked on stuff, I really don't have any idea- other than that contests are just odd. I really don't build for them anymore and don't really care all that much. 

This is the home-made friction lock I made for Tamiya's IS-3 Stalin.

It uses a polycap commonly used in Japanese robot kits, a "tee" cut from the kit's runners, and some plastic sheet and tubing.  The Chieftain will get one as well, as I remember my older build needing to have its main gun glued in place.

Tcoat

I am not a club sort of guy since my work can have weird hours and I doubt they would be interested in some random guy off the street helping out. Now maybe if there was an online forum show! 

When running a show, the more the merrier. More guys helping means more models can be judged more quickly.