Aircraft Trivia Quiz

OK,

Since we're on B-52's, and most of us are aware of its legendary "wing-tip rise" (somewhere around 6 feet), hence the interesting little outrigger landing gears, here's the question:

What unusual circumstance gave Boeing the data that gave them the acceptible stress limits of duraluminum that allowed them to stop "overengineering" their planes, which up to that time were made relatively ridgid at the sacrifice of payload and range?

Bonus question/hint:

The aircraft involved was the first in the series having this unusual series name-how did it get it's unusual name as well?

  Tom T

Need another hint?

This incident occured in 1938...

  Tom T

 

Hint for today:

The aircraft in question was the direct descendent of the B-15, which was the biggest bomber in the world at that time, and was also made by Boeing.

If you all need a "little more", this incident and the aircraft was the subject of the old Spencer Tracy/Clark Gable movie "Test Pilot", which did not exactly depict the actual  historical event (in fact, it was a little less spectacular and a lot less dramatic since nobody died).

Hint form the modeling perspective:

This aircraft has got to be the single most popular heavy bomber subject in modeling history! It is currently available in scales ranging form 144th to 1/28th!

Although it was American to the core, it appeared in British, Japanese and German markings (captured units, of course) as the war progressed.

Since I do not feel that anyone should be limited to a single guess, why doesn't someone go ahead and "take a bite"?

If you all "give up" and need me to, I could also "switch the question".

  Tom T

T_Terrific wrote:

Hint for today: The aircraft in question was the direct descendent of the B-15, which was the biggest bomber in the world at that time, and was also made by Boeing. If you all need a "little more", this incident and the aircraft was the subject of the old Spencer Tracy/Clark Gable movie "Test Pilot", which did not exactly depict the actual  historical event (in fact, it was a little less spectacular and a lot less dramatic since nobody died). Hint form the modeling perspective: This aircraft has got to be the single most popular heavy bomber subject in modeling history! It is currently available in scales ranging form 144th to 1/28th! Although it was American to the core, it appeared in British, Japanese and German markings (captured units, of course) as the war progressed. Since I do not feel that anyone should be limited to a single guess, why doesn't someone go ahead and "take a bite"? If you all "give up" and need me to, I could also "switch the question".   Tom T

 

By now I'm thinking it's a B-17.

"The aircraft involved was the first in the series having this unusual series name-how did it get it's unusual name as well?"

If it's the B-17,  it got its' name "Flying Fortress" from an exclamation or comment one of the reporters made at an early public unveiling or demonstration of the bomber.  A reporter commented on or wrote in a news story about how the plane looked like or was as big as a 'fortress.'  A Boeing official or someone on the program heard or read the reporters comments and that's how the 'Fortress' series of bomber names got started. 

 

OK,

Mr. Remco  was the first with a good guess, however, Kielers also gave the correct answer plus he correctly answered the bonus question, so I feel he should go next.

For the record, the incident in question involved a B-17 that had test gauges rigged throughout the structure, that was on a routine flight to Langley Field when it hit a cumulous cloud that literally flipped the plane over onto it's back! The result was the structure was tested to a greater extent then anyone at the Boeing factory envisioned.

As a suggestion, let's please try to keep the trivia question in the scale modeling rhelm as well as any historical stuff.

  Tom T

I've sent a message to Mr. Kielers and so far gotten no response

If he has "disappeared", I can always post another question in the next few days.

I have plenty, and they all involve "mainstream" aircraft/model types

  Tom T

Here is a more challenging one for true trivia buffs:

"Deleted for a later posting in deference to Steve's arrival/entry"

  Tom T

Tom T,

Sorry for not replying.  I like trivia but don't have any good trivia questions like you guys post.  But I do have this one that probably is fairly easy to answer and involves mainstream aircraft models or at least someone who piloted one.

In September 1944, George H.W. Bush was shot down in his TBM-1C Avenger near the island of Chichi Jima while bombing radio stations on the island.  What was significant about the plane he was flying that day?  Second part of the question is, what was significant about George Bush when he came into the Navy during WWII?   

Again, sorry for taking so long to reply. 

Steve

kielers wrote:

Tom T, Sorry for not replying.  I like trivia but don't have any good trivia questions like you guys post.  But I do have this one that probably is fairly easy to answer and involves mainstream aircraft models or at least someone who piloted one. Again, sorry for taking so long to reply.  Steve

I like your question better Steve, so I'll save mine for another time

  Tom T

kielers wrote:

Tom T, Sorry for not replying.  I like trivia but don't have any good trivia questions like you guys post.  But I do have this one that probably is fairly easy to answer and involves mainstream aircraft models or at least someone who piloted one. In September 1944, George H.W. Bush was shot down in his TBM-1C Avenger near the island of Chichi Jima while bombing radio stations on the island.  What was significant about the plane he was flying that day?  Second part of the question is, what was significant about George Bush when he came into the Navy during WWII?    Again, sorry for taking so long to reply.  Steve

1. Significant about the plane?-According to various accounts, George Bush maintains that his plane was on fire when he bailed out of it, and that this is why he didn't attempt to water land his plane, as he allegedly had off Guam two months before. But the man who flew closest to Bush during the Chi Chi Jima raid insists George Bush's plane was not on fire at the time Bush bailed out of it leaving the other two crew members of the pilotless plane to parish. 
2. Significant about Bush when he joined the Navy?-He was the son of Prescott Bush, who was the managing partner of a firm owned by the ambassador to Russia during WWII. Before that, the U.S. government had seized and shut down the Union Banking Corporation, which had been operated on behalf of Nazi Germany by Prescott Bush and the Harrimans. But that was behind them now, and they were safe from publicity on the Harriman-Bush sponsorship of Hitlerism.

Was that what you were thinking of?

  Tom T

I believe George HW Bush was the youngest pilot in the Navy upon his commissioning.

Bill

T_Terrific wrote:

kielers wrote: Tom T, Sorry for not replying.  I like trivia but don't have any good trivia questions like you guys post.  But I do have this one that probably is fairly easy to answer and involves mainstream aircraft models or at least someone who piloted one. In September 1944, George H.W. Bush was shot down in his TBM-1C Avenger near the island of Chichi Jima while bombing radio stations on the island.  What was significant about the plane he was flying that day?  Second part of the question is, what was significant about George Bush when he came into the Navy during WWII?    Again, sorry for taking so long to reply.  Steve Significant about the plane?-According to various accounts, George Bush maintains that his plane was on fire when he bailed out of it, and that this is why he didn't attempt to water land his plane, as he allegedly had off Guam two months before. But the man who flew closest to Bush during the Chi Chi Jima raid insists George Bush's plane was not on fire at the time Bush bailed out of it leaving the other two crew members of the pilotless plane to parish.  Significant about Bush when he joined the Navy?-He was the son of Prescott Bush, who was the managing partner of a firm owned by the ambassador to Russia during WWII. Before that, the U.S. government had seized and shut down the Union Banking Corporation, which had been operated on behalf of Nazi Germany by Prescott Bush and the Harrimans. But that was behind them now, and they were safe from publicity on the Harriman-Bush sponsorship of Hitlerism. Was that what you were thinking of?   Tom T

You were not there, leave the politics for some other muckraker. This is a modelling forum. There are plenty of other places you can go to start an argument over politics.

Matt90 wrote:

T_Terrific wrote:  kielers wrote: Tom T, Sorry for not replying.  I like trivia but don't have any good trivia questions like you guys post.  But I do have this one that probably is fairly easy to answer and involves mainstream aircraft models or at least someone who piloted one. In September 1944, George H.W. Bush was shot down in his TBM-1C Avenger near the island of Chichi Jima while bombing radio stations on the island.  What was significant about the plane he was flying that day?  Second part of the question is, what was significant about George Bush when he came into the Navy during WWII?    Again, sorry for taking so long to reply.  Steve Significant about the plane?-According to various accounts, George Bush maintains that his plane was on fire when he bailed out of it, and that this is why he didn't attempt to water land his plane, as he allegedly had off Guam two months before. But the man who flew closest to Bush during the Chi Chi Jima raid insists George Bush's plane was not on fire at the time Bush bailed out of it leaving the other two crew members of the pilotless plane to parish.  Significant about Bush when he joined the Navy?-He was the son of Prescott Bush, who was the managing partner of a firm owned by the ambassador to Russia during WWII. Before that, the U.S. government had seized and shut down the Union Banking Corporation, which had been operated on behalf of Nazi Germany by Prescott Bush and the Harrimans. But that was behind them now, and they were safe from publicity on the Harriman-Bush sponsorship of Hitlerism. Was that what you were thinking of?   Tom T You were not there, leave the politics for some other muckraker. This is a modelling forum. There are plenty of other places you can go to start an argument over politics.

Oh boy. Well, without making a statement regarding the politics, I at least have to hand it to Tom for a clever response.

Very odd definition of "politics."  I'd call it history, some of it contrivertible.

Stephan

Stephan Wilkinson wrote:

Very odd definition of "politics."  I'd call it history, some of it contrivertible. Stephan

Good point.

Tom T,

The answers I'm looking for are much simpler than your replies. 

wdolson2 answered the second part correctly.  George H.W. Bush enlisted into the Navy when he was 18 and almost immediately entered the flight training program.  Ten months later he receive his commission and at 19 years old was the youngest pilot in the Navy at his time of commissioning. 

kielers wrote:

The answers I'm looking for are much simpler than your replies.  wdolson2 answered the second part correctly.  George H.W. Bush enlisted into the Navy when he was 18 and almost immediately entered the flight training program.  Ten months later he receive his commission and at 19 years old was the youngest pilot in the Navy at his time of commissioning.

I don't know what exactly you're looking for.  I have heard that an intelligence officer was riding in the turret instead of the regular gunner that day, but that's all I can recall was any different.  Bush was the only survivor of his crew and was picked up by a sub afterwards.  He served on the sub until the end of its patrol.

I don't know all that much about Bush's wartime career though.

Bill

The significance I was looking for was that Bush normally flew white X 2 on missions but for some reason that I don't know he was flying white X 3 on the day he was shot down. 

But just as a matter of information, the campaign on Chichi Jima was solely to suppress or destroy the radio transmitter/receivers located there.  The island is situated relativley close to the Japanese mainland and was used to restransmit radio signals back and forth between the mainland and particularly Iwo Jima.  Many missions were conducted on the island and there were some pretty significant anit-aircraft systems on the island.  In fact most of the planes shot down there were from flak.  What's more ominous though is that of the 9 Navy and Marine Corps pilots shot down near the island, Bush was one of them and the only one to not be captured by Japanese forces on the island because there was a US submarine nearby where he landed a few kilometers north of the island.  The other 8 pilots and air crewmen where all captured and subsequently tortured and killed by the Japanese forces on the island.

   

Stephan Wilkinson wrote:

Very odd definition of "politics."  I'd call it history, some of it contrivertible. Stephan

Thank you Steve. I was not seeking to "muckrake" nor do I begrudge anyone.

I admire his bravery as much as I do that of John Kennedy, another young officer to be promoted quickly in the Navy, and got his mount shot out from under him (PT-109). Really, I do not think those guys who risked getting killed were the lucky or privileged ones.

On the other hand, his being able to get in so young and without meeting the Navy required two years of college, and being made an aviator in ten months suggests something unusual, doesn't it?

So gets the next "go"?

  Tom T

No, it doesn't seem unusual to me that he was commissioned so fast especially in a time when we were at the beginning of the second world war in just over twenty years,  recruiters and government officials were doing everything they could to sign up service members, especially pilots for the Pacific Theater. 

wdolson2 answered the second part correctly and I didn't really allow much of a chance for a correct answer on the first part.  So I guess wdolson2 gets next shot.

Steve 

kielers wrote:

No, it doesn't seem unusual to me that he was commissioned so fast especially in a time when we were at the beginning of the second world war in just over twenty years,  recruiters and government officials were doing everything they could to sign up service members, especially pilots for the Pacific Theater.  wdolson2 answered the second part correctly and I didn't really allow much of a chance for a correct answer on the first part.  So I guess wdolson2 gets next shot.

The military dropped the requirement for two years of college at some point.  I'm not exactly sure when.  I think it's quite possible that Bush was at the right place at the right time when the requirement was dropped.  Chuck Yeager was another one who got into flight training when the requirement was dropped.

Many members of the Bush family have some questionable things in their past, but not everything the family has ever done is shady.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

On to the question.  Hopefully something less political...

The US got a hold of two Zero airframes that were still flyable (or at least repairable to flying condition) at about the same time from two very different places.  Where was one of these places?

Bill

wdolson2 wrote:

kielers wrote: No, it doesn't seem unusual to me that he was commissioned so fast especially in a time when we were at the beginning of the second world war in just over twenty years,  recruiters and government officials were doing everything they could to sign up service members, especially pilots for the Pacific Theater.  wdolson2 answered the second part correctly and I didn't really allow much of a chance for a correct answer on the first part.  So I guess wdolson2 gets next shot. The military dropped the requirement for two years of college at some point.  I'm not exactly sure when.  I think it's quite possible that Bush was at the right place at the right time when the requirement was dropped.  Chuck Yeager was another one who got into flight training when the requirement was dropped. Many members of the Bush family have some questionable things in their past, but not everything the family has ever done is shady.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. On to the question.  Hopefully something less political... The US got a hold of two Zero airframes that were still flyable (or at least repairable to flying condition) at about the same time from two very different places.  Where was one of these places? Bill

Aleutian Islands?

scottw76051 wrote:

wdolson2 wrote: The US got a hold of two Zero airframes that were still flyable (or at least repairable to flying condition) at about the same time from two very different places.  Where was one of these places? Bill Aleutian Islands?

You got it.  The stories of both of the first captured aircraft are interesting.  The first one actaully fell into Chinese hands in Novermber 1941, but the US didn't know about it for almost a year.  Two Zeros from the pre-production batch sent to China were en route to Saigon for the offensive against Malaya when they got lost and landed on a beach.  The Chinese farmers who found the planes didn't even know whose they were.  They were pretty isolated.

The farmers badly damaged one, but decided to take the other one apart and move it inland.  The fate of the pilots is unknown.  The Chinese government got the planes and were able to assemble one flyable plane.  A couple of panels behind the cowling were lost, so Chinese mechanics fashioned some panels with louvers on them.

The Zero was flown by several of the AVG pilots before being flown to India.  The P-40s assigned to escort the Zero to Karachi all had mechanical troubles and the Zero ended up making it to Karachi alone.  In shipping, it was damaged and Curtiss repaired it at their factory.  It was used for testing and disppeared sometime in 1944.  Nobody is sure what happened to it.

The Aleutians Zero crashed during the Japanese attacks on Dutch Harbor in June 1942.  The pilot attempted to land in a peat bog when he had engine trouble and the plane flipped over breaking his neck.  The propeller and vertical tail were damaged, but otherwise the plane was in good condition.  I believe parts were scrounged from a Zero that went down at Pearl Harbor.

The Aleutians Zero was the first to be evaluated by the US, though the China Zero was the first one captured.

In any case, the floor is yours. :)

Bill

wdolson2 wrote:

The US got a hold of two Zero airframes that were still flyable (or at least repairable to flying condition) at about the same time from two very different places.  Where was one of these places? Bill

Two very different places?

I don't know about the "other place", but in December 29th, 1943, Combat Command “B” of the 1st Marine Division primarily consisting of the 1st and 5th Marine Regiments occupied the Tuluvu airfield. Members of the technical air intelligence (TAI) team were soon on hand to inventory captured aircraft. By December 30th more than a dozen aircraft wrecks were found and within a few days additional wrecks and an intact aircraft were found. Most of the aircraft that were potentially repairable or salvageable had been stored away from the East (active) runway and camouflaged with foliage.

Amongst this "gold find" were two Zekes, that were Nakajima built Zero model 21 No. 1491 and Zeke No. 3580.

Would one of these two suffice?

  Tom T

wdolson2 wrote:

scottw76051 wrote:  wdolson2 wrote: The US got a hold of two Zero airframes that were still flyable (or at least repairable to flying condition) at about the same time from two very different places.  Where was one of these places? Bill Aleutian Islands? You got it.  The stories of both of the first captured aircraft are interesting.  The first one actaully fell into Chinese hands in Novermber 1941, but the US didn't know about it for almost a year.  Two Zeros from the pre-production batch sent to China were en route to Saigon for the offensive against Malaya when they got lost and landed on a beach.  The Chinese farmers who found the planes didn't even know whose they were.  They were pretty isolated. The farmers badly damaged one, but decided to take the other one apart and move it inland.  The fate of the pilots is unknown.  The Chinese government got the planes and were able to assemble one flyable plane.  A couple of panels behind the cowling were lost, so Chinese mechanics fashioned some panels with louvers on them. The Zero was flown by several of the AVG pilots before being flown to India.  The P-40s assigned to escort the Zero to Karachi all had mechanical troubles and the Zero ended up making it to Karachi alone.  In shipping, it was damaged and Curtiss repaired it at their factory.  It was used for testing and disppeared sometime in 1944.  Nobody is sure what happened to it. The Aleutians Zero crashed during the Japanese attacks on Dutch Harbor in June 1942.  The pilot attempted to land in a peat bog when he had engine trouble and the plane flipped over breaking his neck.  The propeller and vertical tail were damaged, but otherwise the plane was in good condition.  I believe parts were scrounged from a Zero that went down at Pearl Harbor. The Aleutians Zero was the first to be evaluated by the US, though the China Zero was the first one captured. In any case, the floor is yours. :) Bill

Ok, in my tradition of following up a question with a related question, what was the Allies code name for the clipped wing Zero? This is a simple question, so it would be nice if everyone answered from their own personal knowledge base.

scottw76051 wrote:

Ok, in my tradition of following up a question with a related question, what was the Allies code name for the clipped wing Zero? This is a simple question, so it would be nice if everyone answered from their own personal knowledge base.

Hamp.  When it was first encountered, the Americans thought it was an entirely new airplane.

Bill

It's all yours, Bill.

Sticking with fighters...

What is the only fighter to start out as a float plane and then later be adapted for use as a land based fighter?

Bill

Spirfire- onward development from S.6B floatplane