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Aussie Modellers

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Victoria
Posted by harvs73 on Monday, May 30, 2005 7:26 PM
Darren i'm going there on the monday hopefully at opening time.

Dave Harvey

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: sunny brisbane australia
Posted by biscuit3 on Monday, May 30, 2005 12:06 PM
thanks darren better late than never
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by darson on Monday, May 30, 2005 7:23 AM
Hi all, after a long absence I thought I might pop in and say hi.

Dave and Peter, are you both going to the expo and if so when? Also, are you going to put in an entry? I was going to enter my Eduard Profipack 1/48 Bell X-1 in the OOB section, but as usual time has gotten the better of me an I won't finish it in time.
Peter, if you want to check out the following link, it should give you all the details you need http://www.modelexpo.com.au/index.html

Mick sorry it's a bit late but welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Darren
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Victoria
Posted by harvs73 on Monday, May 30, 2005 4:37 AM
Model expo 11 - 13 june 2005 at Sandown Entertainment centre, sandown Race course, Princess Highway, Springvale melbourne. Metway ref Map 80 ref C10 with entry from the princess highway.

Viewing of the competition models is from 2pm to 6pm Saturday, 12 noon to 6pm sunday and 10am to 5pm Monday. Admission $7.00. Many retailers set up shop here during the expo. Heaps of very good quality models, dioramas etc are on display during the expo.

Swap meet (the good bit)- opens from 10 am to 3pm Monday with an admission price of $4. You will find HEAPS of kits on sale for prices ranging from dirt cheap to ridiculously expensive here. Tae lots of money if you are in search of kits (even if you aren't)

This info is taken from the Model Art Australia magazine so if you read that you can get all the detailed info, or just ask here and I or others will help. I prefer to go on the monday only as you can attend both areas on the one day.

Dave Harvey

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 3:55 AM
harvs73,
Do you have any details of the upcoming Melb expo for a first timer?

Thanks, Pete.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Victoria
Posted by harvs73 on Monday, May 30, 2005 3:30 AM
And the Melbourne expo is only in 2 weeks. Big Smile [:D]

Dave Harvey

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: sunny brisbane australia
Posted by biscuit3 on Monday, May 30, 2005 1:11 AM
hang in there jules, are you going to go to qmhe this year? Propeller [8-]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:22 PM
Hmmm i think i may and go browse other forums until modelling returns to this one.........
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Victoria
Posted by harvs73 on Saturday, May 28, 2005 11:50 PM
Max , to be quite blunt, are you for real? The armour on the Abrahms is quite good without the depleted uranium. Not able to withstand an RPG???? The Leopard I armour can be penetrated with an 84mm Carl Gustaff round. I know this as I have fired 84mm rounds at leopard hulls and also seen the results, they DO go through. Do you honestly think we would get new Leopard II's? I don't think we would somehow, they would be rebuilds as well.

The rebuilds of AFVs can be quite good. They currently rebuild the Leopards M113's etc just down the road from where I am, they COMPLETELY strip the vehicle and inspect then replace all components requiring it. The end product that comes out is quite good for an ancient piece of equipment like the Leopard. As much as I dislike Americans you can't knock their ability to do the job of rebuilding the vehicles.

The bit about requiring americans to repair the equipment shows the lack of knowledge in how equipment is repaired in the Australian Army. Small repairs are done by unit tradesman and anything big is simply (not simple realy but....) the replacement of the whole powerpack which is then sent back for repair by a larger unit. You also seem to underestimate the capability of the Australian Army tradesman, one ARA tradie is equal to 4 or 5 american tradesman (fact not fiction) due to the ablity and cross training of our tradies.

The purchase of new support equipment is required no matter what AFV is purchased. All of our current equipment for tanks is designed for our puny little leopard not the full size tanks that are being purchased. The current equipment we have is also due for replacement anyway as the majority of it is old and breaking down to much. Any new vehicle fleet as large as a MBT would require a totaly new fleet of recovery and other logisitics vehicles whether it is a Leopard II, Challenger or Abrahms or a T-80 for that matter.

The only thing that I do agree with you about is that I wouldn't trust the American government to uphold the ANZUS treaty unless they were to get anything out of it eg oil.

My comments come from, currently, only 18 years in the ARA mostly served with RAEME workshops in 1 BDE in Sydney and Darwin.

Now MY rant is over. Let modeling stuff go on please. [#offtopic

Dave Harvey

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: sunny brisbane australia
Posted by biscuit3 on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:58 AM
thanks for the warm welcome guys Smile [:)] being an ex serviceman i can understand the frustation as ive had to deal with,fitted for but not with ships in my time i think we should by some f15js cause if they think that the f35 is going to work from the word go they are kidding My 2 cents [2c]
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Perth, Western Australia
Posted by madmike on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:08 AM
More Hornets....Oh yes, perhaps the Super Bug would be a good upgrade. I seriously worried about the F-35 delivery time!

Welcome Mick!

cheers

Mike
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:06 AM
Oh well, on a happy note, Carl's giraffe is back!! Big Smile [:D]

Sign - Welcome [#welcome] Mick!! Don't worry about the flame war, it'll die down in a few pages. Every other forum I've been on has had the same 'discussion'.

Cheers,
John
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:48 AM
Thats one thing i'd like to see more of in our defence force, "More Hornets"
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Australia
Posted by Bandha Boy on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:37 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by biscuit3

G,day one and all its nice to see all us aussies together, first of all my name is mick ...

Sign - Welcome [#welcome] Hi Mick & welcome. You've stepped into th middle of a bit of a flame war but we're usually quite fiendly around here. I'm sure some of the crew will value a bit of real-life naval input from time to time.
Carl
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: sunny brisbane australia
Posted by biscuit3 on Monday, May 23, 2005 8:45 AM
G,day one and all its nice to see all us aussies together, first of all my name is mick becquet and i live in sunny brisbane but i grew up in western sydney im 41 yrs old ive been modelling on and off for about 30yrs.I served for 11yrs in the navy ,the R.A.N that is i build 1/72 scale a/c and a ship now and then, ive only recently discovered this forum as im fairly new to the net.But its great to be able to communicate with fellow aussie modellers cheers guys! Big Smile [:D]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 23, 2005 7:22 AM
Not trying to offend you, fireguard62b, but you say you're a 'force guy'. It surprises me that you have such an attitude, especially as most of the people I have spoken with, including the ex-RSM of 1st Armoured Regt are quite happy that we are getting the Abrams. It is a tank designed mainly for desert fighting, whereas the Challenger II and Leopard 2 are designed by countries with a very temperate climate (England and Germany respectively). As was seen in Gulf War II, the Challengers needed rather extensive modification to increase their survivability in a desert enviroment (Tamiya even made a kit). Mods for the Abrams? Minimal, if any. They were packed up, shipped out, unloaded and got stuck in.

I also find it interesting that you talk about cracked chassis and thirsty turbines. From what I have heard (more 1st Armoured guys), the tanks are being either manufactured brand new at the plant in the US, or they're being stripped back to bare basics and completely rebuilt, not patched up. The only setback on this front is the fact that the design is over 20 years old. But we're driving around in Leopard 1's at the moment and they're over 30 years old!!! As for the 'thirsty turbine', it seems we'll actually be getting a diesel powerplant put in. While this may give a small reduction in speed, it won't impact that serverely on the tank's performance. Finally on the issue of the removal of the depleted uranium armour: yes, it can be enviromentally unfriendly and personally I would enjoy being able to walk around Pukapunyal on exercise without making sure I'm not stepping on anything that might result in an extra arm growing out my head. But don't think we'll be fighting in these vehicles if, God forbid, Australia ever goes to war again. Part of the package was training for Aussie tank crews in America. Do you think that we would fight in our own tanks? I think not. More than likely, Aussie tank crews would fight in the US's tanks, when in a conflict. Don't forget that those would be M1A2's not A1's.

Another gripe by many people was the fact that there are only 59 on order. I reckon we'll be seeing more to come. It seems many people regard Australia as a nation that is under iminent invasion from the 'hostile overcrowded countries to the North'. Personally though, I believe that if Australia was ever invaded (unlikely), the US, Britain, New Zealand and a host of other countries would come to her aid. Especially since Australia and the US still have the ANZUS Treaty going.

All up, my opinion (and that's all it is, my humble opinion) is that Australia made a good choice in buying the Abrams. Closer ties with America aren't a bad thing, they're a good thing. After all, in the playground of world politics, it's good to best friends with the biggest kid of all, isn't it?
My rant is over...
Cheers,
John
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, May 21, 2005 7:12 AM
Well at the very least the purchase of the M1A1 will at least give the turret modellers somethink new to build
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Perth, Western Australia
Posted by madmike on Saturday, May 21, 2005 2:28 AM
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15055109%255E25377,00.html

I would suggest you tone down the anit-US sentiment mate, this is an international forum and you ought to be mindful of what you say and what tone you say it in.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Perth, Western Australia
Posted by madmike on Saturday, May 21, 2005 2:12 AM
So you are going to bring politics and obvious anti US issues into this?

Abrams was chosen because it has performed well in harsh and hot conditions. Also note that the US Army has not had a new MBT delivered since 1992. All existing MBT's are going through the exact upgrade and refit programme that the ADF M1A1 AIM MBT's are undertaking.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15317254%255E31477,00.html

As good as Leopard 2 and Challenger tanks are (Challenger was essentially an upgrade of Chieftain, requested by Saudi Arabia during the late 70's) they have not performed well against the Abrams in conditions such as we have here in Australia, needing a lot more modifications to bring them to ADF specs.

Are you actually suggesting we adopt Labor's age old policy of sitting behind Australia's borders and downgrading our our miliary to that effect? East Timor proved just how defficient our military was coming out of that shortsighted, navel gazing policy.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 20, 2005 7:58 PM
G'Day all. Back again after a long absence. Starting work on a 1/72 Short Sunderland III done up in Ansett colours shortly. Will post pics as I progress.

All the best.

Bob
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by celestialsphere on Friday, May 20, 2005 2:40 AM
Has anyone ordered a kit from 'Internet Modeller' in the US?

If so what are the postage rates like for a single smallish kit?

Thanks

Celestialsphere
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 20, 2005 12:57 AM
I stand corrected, we are getting the M1A1 AIM . I also have found the info on the removal of the depleted uranium.

"But don't expect the M1-A1 Abrams tank to come complete with plenty of chrome. Rather, the war machine is decked out with ceramic plating, an optional feature in place of the depleted uranium armour used by the US military. "
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1062969.htm

http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/Hilltpl.cfm?CurrentId=3643

http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1120/topstories/story01.htm
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Perth, Western Australia
Posted by madmike on Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:53 PM
All of the depleted uranium. Whose idea was that? The whole idea was that addition of depleted or inert uranium was to protect the tank along with the Chobham armour! Still no tank deployed by the forces of this region could probably face an M1A1 down.

I understood were were not getting M1A2's

cheers

Mike
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 8:50 PM
IIRC the Challenger had some issues when it was used in the frist gulf war, mechanical mainly due to sand, but I just can't recall.
As for the changes that we are having to the Abrahms (M1A2 is the model that we are getting???) all of the urainium is being removed from the armour. Gotta wonder what that is going to do for it's ability to survive in a modern combat enviroment.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Perth, Western Australia
Posted by madmike on Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:51 PM
I think a balanced army has some need for a MBT. I would have preferred to have seen the ADF purchase the Challenger 3 as like the M1A1, it is combat proven.

With the aquisition of a modern MBT, the ADF at least has the fire support required to support our troops, I doubt the ASLAV or the M113 could handle that job fully. Got to remember the M113 design is over 40 years old and are not well armoured.

BTW, what mods are being done to the Abrams?

cheers

Mike
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:11 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by j.s.harrison

Hmmm i'm not much of an armour guy but from what i've heard the Abrahms is a much more capable vehicle than the Leopard thats currently in service, but then i have to ask myself does Australia need a MBT..........
BTW Raverdave i have the 1/350 Essex class carrier CV10 USS Yorktown, just need some stuff from Eduard to make it completeThumbs Up [tup]


Well as someone who was once in infantry, I am biased towards the need for a MBT. The "shock and awe" effect of these things should never be under-rated, and then there is the practical fire support that they provide. Plus there is the added bonus that when a tank is sharing the battlefield with you, the bad guys tend to concentrate on the tank rather than a lowly infantryman :)


I am still working on sanding the hull , then refilling the small bumps and sanding again and again and again, have done a little bit of work on the Island but I am yet to buy an airbrush. The compressor is on the list for the weekend. Any chance a of a few pics of your CV 10 ???
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 6:00 PM
Hmmm i'm not much of an armour guy but from what i've heard the Abrahms is a much more capable vehicle than the Leopard thats currently in service, but then i have to ask myself does Australia need a MBT..........
BTW Raverdave i have the 1/350 Essex class carrier CV10 USS Yorktown, just need some stuff from Eduard to make it completeThumbs Up [tup]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 5:48 PM
Thanks for the welcome everyone.
@ Fireguard62b
Do you REALLY think that the Abrahms is that bad?????? At least we are still going to have a MBT of sometype rather than having none.( And there were rumors floating around that the army should have nothing but ASLAVs and rebuilt M113s).
Yes I would agree that the Leopard 2A6 is as good as the Abrahms, but it has not been proven in warm weather operations as has the Abrahms.
Do you have any thoughts on the "modification" that we are having done to the Abrahms?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:36 AM
I'm into building 1/16th R/C tanks and armour.

My latest is building a Leopard 2A6 in Aussie colours (stuff this Abrahms garbage). A tank we should of bought. I have not modified much just a few things with equipment.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:46 AM
g'day Raverdave and Sushi.

Sign - Welcome [#welcome] guys

Raverdave , thats going to be a nice challenge for you the 1/350 USS Essex.

cheers mike
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